Amber Diceless RPG

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

Anyone have any experience playing this system? How did it run (the system)? I don't care so much about the setting, but I am very intrigued by rules.

[Dr_Avalanche]

I've only run it as PBEM but my experience has been that it works quite well - it becomes a tool for narration, more than suspense - since there's no randomness in challenges, it all turns into narrating what's happening, until one part loses its nerve and backs down, or until the challenge comes to its logical conclusion. It also defuses much of the need for challenges as part of the game - there's no point killing orcs, so you can focus on the story you're trying to tell.

It's certainly a whole different thing from running a traditional rpg.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

From what I have read about it I can see the immediate appeal of using it for PBEM. I don't know how I feel about going completely diceless, but it is intriguing.

[Old Fart]

The thing I liked most about it was fight scenes lasted exactly as long as they needed to for the sake of the narrative/plot/suspense/whatever.

Also, the race doesn't always go to the strong - the fun is the players being creative in trying to "cheat."

[Janos]

It's been at least a decade since we ran it.

But way back, we found that the most eloquent among us dominated the campaign even more than usual. The system was fun, but it's reliance on storytelling really hinders those who won't speak up, aren't eloquent, or don't like big words.

It was also extremely hard to compel or find reasons for the party to work together and interact. It ended up being more like a Vampire session where 4-6 people work on individual motivations sidebaring the whole thing, with periodic sessions where we were finally able to get everyone together to accomplish a specific task before scattering to the winds.

[Dr_Avalanche]

I think that's another point for PBEM when it comes to Amber DRPG. There was never a "party", just scenes and a rough timeline so that people weren't in two places at the same time. Everyone had their own agendas, and they never felt they had to compromise with those in order to stay together in a party.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

ooohhh... that's a problem then. I'm a big proponent of cooperative gameplay. So would you say one of the problems with the system is that it's too loose and not structured enough? Not geared enough towards fostering group play?

[Hatter]

As I recall one of the default assumptions is that the players may engage in intrigue against each other. It's been awhile since I've read it though.

[Janos]

Not geared enough towards fostering group play?

The characters are demigods in their own right, each one master of a particular area. And unlike in a system like Exalted where there is some semblance of needing other people with other specialties, the narrative style of Amber means a clever player can almost always play to his strengths.

It wasn't necessarily competitive for us (not built in, just present as our natural inclinations), but it wasn't at all cooperative either.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

That's a bummer. Hmmm....

[Hatter]

You could always try Nobilis.

[Redallia]

Getting the party together and keeping them working with one another is really dependant on the GM setting things up to get the PCs to want to work together. The easy way to go about doing that, in setting, is to threaten to destroy the entire multiverse. On the other hand, in a con game I played in for several years, all the PCs were children of one of the setting's major NPCs, so we had a strong reason to work together, especially when we started interacting with the other major NPCs (who are prone to try manipulating anybody they can).

Hehe...just in case it's not obvious, I'm a fan of the game. ^_^

[Janos]

all the PCs were children of one of the setting's major NPCs, so we had a strong reason to work together, especially when we started interacting with the other major NPCs (who are prone to try manipulating anybody they can).

Because that worked out so well in the Amber books it's based on...

:tongue:

[cnath.rm]

I know that he is generally loathed by many around here, but the RPGPundit is a huge fan of Amber (enough that it's author had a subforum devoted to Amber at therpgsite before he died) and has a clone version coming out in the next year or so (it's to the publisher, so it's waiting on layout/final art) but instead of the Amber books as a base he went with the Greek gods as a base to build from.

As to the main question, I've got both main books, and love what I've read, I'm just not sure that I could do justice to the Amber world even if I could get a group of players that would be up for the change of system.

[Limper]

ooohhh... that's a problem then. I'm a big proponent of cooperative gameplay. So would you say one of the problems with the system is that it's too loose and not structured enough? Not geared enough towards fostering group play?

Did you ever read the books? The system is very much based on them.

http://www.therpgsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29

It took a bit of digging but I found where I knew there was a forum section dedicated to Amber Diceless.

[Limper]

I know that he is generally loathed by many around here, but the RPGPundit is a huge fan of Amber (enough that it's author had a subforum devoted to Amber at therpgsite before he died) and has a clone version coming out in the next year or so (it's to the publisher, so it's waiting on layout/final art) but instead of the Amber books as a base he went with the Greek gods as a base to build from.

As to the main question, I've got both main books, and love what I've read, I'm just not sure that I could do justice to the Amber world even if I could get a group of players that would be up for the change of system.

While I was hunting you posted this... you suck.

[cnath.rm]

While I was hunting you posted this... you suck.Ahh, but you were still wise enough to post the link, so you still win on points for certain, and it likely isn't even going to be a split decision due to my error in Not doing so.:D

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

I've already been looking over there. From what I have seen, the Amber setting doesn't interest me at all. The idea of a system that uses fixed numbers ofr resolution DOES, however. I just don't know if I would like that without any randomizing element at all, or how one would go about making a hybrid of sorts that would work.

I love old school D&D, but I've never been really happy with the way combat and magic are handled. Hence why I continue to look into other systems.

[Limper]

I've already been looking over there. From what I have seen, the Amber setting doesn't interest me at all. The idea of a system that uses fixed numbers ofr resolution DOES, however. I just don't know if I would like that without any randomizing element at all, or how one would go about making a hybrid of sorts that would work.

I love old school D&D, but I've never been really happy with the way combat and magic are handled. Hence why I continue to look into other systems.

The Amber system is tied to the setting. From a simulationist standpoint it does a pretty good job of simulating the Amber books.

Pretty much unless you want to run that type of setting the system is too strange for any other.

Strictly speaking old school DnD is a game of combat and magic... there wasn't anything else to the game so its hard to like the rest but not that since there wasn't much in the rest basket.

You've been looking for how many years now? My guess is more than 20 and its not been found yet.

Write your own... it is the ONLY way.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

The Amber system is tied to the setting. From a simulationist standpoint it does a pretty good job of simulating the Amber books.

Pretty much unless you want to run that type of setting the system is too strange for any other.

Strictly speaking old school DnD is a game of combat and magic... there wasn't anything else to the game so its hard to like the rest but not that since there wasn't much in the rest basket.

You've been looking for how many years now? My guess is more than 20 and its not been found yet.

Write your own... it is the ONLY way.

I like the logic of BX D&D. I like the simplicity. I even don't hate the combat, but I do have a dislike for Vancian magic. So maybe doing it myself is the best option.

[Limper]

I like the logic of BX D&D. I like the simplicity. I even don't hate the combat, but I do have a dislike for Vancian magic. So maybe doing it myself is the best option.

Vancian Magic is used because its very simple to implement and track.

I spent decades looking for the perfect system and spent thousands of dollars in its pursuit... in the end it was easier to just futz with d20 till I got the results I was looking for... and I haven't had to spend a dime in 3 years since those results came to light.

What magic system (meaning which books) are you trying to simulate?

Is it really worth the headache to write a new one or could you just reformulate your concept of how it should work toward the rules?

Is what you envision going to be playable at all? Dangerous Journeys had an awsomely cool magic system that was nigh unusable in play... RuneQuest had a great system with a lot of possible depth and story built into its mechanics but in actual play you never got anywhere and it wasn't reliable in the slightest.

[Dacke]

I like the magic system from the newest version of Warhammer, or at least the ideas behind it (I haven't played it enough to know how well it works out in practice). I've only played a priest, but I think the wizard side works similarly.

Essentially, the caster is limited by both the number of magic points he has available and the recharge time on his spells (which often double as duration). The magic points are normally equal to the caster's Willpower stat, and if he should temporarily go below (e.g. by casting) or above (e.g. by taking a power-gathering action), they naturally move toward being equal to Willpower at a rate of 1 point per round. Once you cast a spell, you normally put a number of recharge tokens on the spell's action card (most abilities in Warhammer use action cards), and remove one token each round. When all are gone, the spell is ready for use again, and normally that also means that the spell's duration is up in case it's a short-term buff/debuff.