[Dear Canada] Jim Flaherty

[Limper]

How long will he be in office?

[Northcott]

I want him out. I want him out bad.

Him, Baird, and Clement were all part of Mike Harris' inner circle when the Tories screwed up Ontario. Then they jumped to federal politics to help give Harper a leg up in this province.

Mulroney pretty much mauled the Canadian conservative movement when he was in office. This lot may well put the nails in the coffin if they're allowed to continue. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Dion to lead the Liberals to victory in the next election, and hopefully put Goodale back in as Finance Minister. Ralph Goodale may well be the best Minister of Finance we've had in my lifetime, serving under Paul Martin. He's a rarity in politics: an honest politician. Personally, I wish he'd run for leadership, but he refused as his lack of ability to speak French would have damaged his chances and his party's chances.

[Limper]

What would you place their odds at for being in office in 3 years?

[Northcott]

At this point? The polls indicate it's a 50/50 split. Harper/the conservatives started with the smear campaign of half-truths and outright lies against prominent Liberal party members, specifically Dion but including Goodale too, within a couple weeks after Dion won the party leadership.

It irritates me to no end. Harper keeps on repeating how ethical and accountable his government is: you know, repeat a lie often enough, and people start to think it's the truth. Meanwhile he's broken key election promises based on what he claimed were ethical stances, his party's under investigation for improper campaign financing and spending, and one of his ministers has been publicly nailed for lying about his spending.

But none of it seems to be sticking. :mad:

[Brynja]

Welcome to my personal hell Northcott. You just described alot of Republicans.

[Northcott]

It's no coincidence that before the last election, our current PM, Stephen Harper, attended a convention in the USA sponsored by a right-wing think-tank. It brought together "conservative" leaders from across the world -- Neo-cons, really -- and they spent a few days listening election strategies, policy advice, and other lovely little items of conformity.

It was reported once in the media, and then never resurfaced. You'd think that something like that would have had them dancing with glee, or at least their political foes, but the story disappeared within a couple days and was buried deep. I haven't been able to find it since then.

[PWD]

I remember that too. It did get a fair bit of play, but it's largely disappeared since.

Why it didn't give more people the creeping shudders I don't know.

Anyhow, despite that I would have no problem with an honorable conservative government here. That means ditching the Mulroney and Harris fanboys, the jackasses eager to sell us out to the states and emulate their political machinery, and returning to something more analogous to the PC party of the Joe Clark era predating Mulroney.

The current conservatives I wouldn't trust to take out my garbage.

[Northcott]

I remember that too. It did get a fair bit of play, but it's largely disappeared since.

Why it didn't give more people the creeping shudders I don't know.

Anyhow, despite that I would have no problem with an honorable conservative government here. That means ditching the Mulroney and Harris fanboys, the jackasses eager to sell us out to the states and emulate their political machinery, and returning to something more analogous to the PC party of the Joe Clark era predating Mulroney.

The current conservatives I wouldn't trust to take out my garbage.

Quoted for truth. In fact, I'd love a Joe Clark style government to return. But the problem is that the conservative party is now dominated entirely by two conflicting factions: Mulroney's corrupt old-boy's club, and Harper's neo-cons.

I was desperately hoping that the conservatives would bomb in the last election, but the Liberals made sure to screw up time and a time again, allowing the conservatives to actually win a minority. It was the Liberals' election to lose, and they lost it. Wankers.

There were, at the time, mutterings of Harper being unsuited for the job of leadership. Had he lost yet again, his own party would have ousted him in favour of a more moderate leader, and there would have been enough conflict with the Mulroney club to keep them unsteady. It would have been a chance for great reform for that party.

[there_is_no_bob]

If the Cons manage another minority I'll be disappointed, but unsurprised.


The fact that nothing seems to stick to them is rather disturbing, but it'll be interesting to see what happens come election time. I'm sure there will be attack ads, but how bad will they get and from which quarter? All sides are pretty well armed at this point (though a good chunck of Conservative ammo is past its fire-by date, I think).

[Northcott]

If the Cons manage another minority I'll be disappointed, but unsurprised.


The fact that nothing seems to stick to them is rather disturbing, but it'll be interesting to see what happens come election time. I'm sure there will be attack ads, but how bad will they get and from which quarter? All sides are pretty well armed at this point (though a good chunck of Conservative ammo is past its fire-by date, I think).


Attack ads start? The conservatives haven't stopped them! They've been sniping at other members of parliament since Dion took the leadership, with half-truths and outright lies. The one that sticks out in my mind is the way they try to link Goodale to the potential leak in the Ministry of Finance, when the RCMP investigation into the matter completely cleared his name.

Then there's Baird, Harper's attack dog. Baird's doing the same thing on a federal level that he did on the provincial: shouting. Wherever Harper feels his policies are in trouble, he sticks Baird there -- and Baird immediately sets to attacking everybody else, pointing fingers, making personal attacks, refusing to answer questions, shouting as loud as he can, and perpetually acting indignant. He's either the stupidest motherfucker to ever insult parliament with his presence, or one of the most dishonest. I rather think it's the latter.

[there_is_no_bob]

Attack ads start? The conservatives haven't stopped them! Yeah but once the writ actually drops, that's what I'm waiting to see.

I'm expecting a fucking flood from the Cons, but their ammo is getting outdated and overused. The other parties are now pretty well armed- will they start firing full out, or try and take the high road?
I hate using that phrase, since it always makes me think they're gonna kill their opponents, but it gets the point across


He's either the stupidest motherfucker to ever insult parliament with his presence, or one of the most dishonest. I rather think it's the latter.I like to be even handed, and give both sides their due.:tongue:

[Northcott]

I'm expecting a fucking flood from the Cons, but their ammo is getting outdated and overused. The other parties are now pretty well armed- will they start firing full out, or try and take the high road?


No doubt we'll see a ton of slander and half-truths. I'm expecting them to try and point out that nothing was done on the environment under Chretien, and that Dion was environment minister -- conveniently forgetting to mention that he scrapped with Chretien over his portfolio, and was eventually dropped from cabinet. Or they'll once again try and connect Goodale to the scandal that came out of the ministry of finance, in spite of the fact that he's been completely exonerated. The sad truth is that stupid and/or gullible people begin to believe a lie if it's repeated often enough, and there's a frightening number of voters who don't apply any kind of critical thought to the messages they're given.

I figure that if there's anything really juicy, the Cons would save it if they're smart. Chances are, however, that they're not saving anything.

The Liberals and NDP, on the other hand, have been given all kinds of ammo. Hopefully they'll be smart enough to use it.


While I don't think that Canadian conservatism is going to have another chance like it did in the last election -- where a defeat could have potentially lead to Harper's clique falling from grace, and the Alliance remainders untrusting of Mulroney's old boy's club, and so leaving the way open for new blood to rise to the fore -- I'm hoping that the party will be soundly defeated in this election. It might have a similar effect, though I doubt it. They've become too cohesive since then. Still, it's a pleasant dream.