You can't say [racial epithet] in France

[Harry]

An old man gets sued for saying [racial epithet].

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/10/16/france.perfume.tycoon.slur/index.html?iref=NS1

Paris, France -- French anti-racism group SOS-Racisme plans to file a legal complaint against perfume designer Jean-Paul Guerlain following a racist remark he made on French television.

Guerlain -- who is no longer connected with the perfume company that bears his name -- made the remarks during an interview with France 2 on Friday about his career and the making of Samsara, one of his famous perfumes he created to impress a woman.

"One day I told her -- and I still called her Madame -- 'What would seduce you if one was to make a perfume for you?' and she told me, 'I love jasmine, rose and sandalwood,'" Guerlain recalled.

"And for once I started working like a [racial epithet]. I don't know if [racial epithet] ever worked that hard," he said.

Guerlain issued an apology following the interview's broadcast, which a France 2 anchor read during the network's evening newscast.

"My words do not reflect in any way my profound thoughts but are due to an inopportune misspeaking which I vividly regret," the apology read.

According to a Guerlain company spokesperson, Guerlain has not been an employee since 2002. He now counsels the company as a "nose" for some perfumes.

SOS-Racisme said it is not satisfied with Guerlain's apology and will bring action against him. Guerlain could be issued a fine if the complaint goes before a magistrate.

Louis-Georges Tin, a spokesman for the Council Representative of Black Associations, told French radio RTL that his group also will join in the complaint.

"Until now we thought that Mr. Guerlain was the ambassador of grace, and he made comments particularly disgraceful, even a bit foul," Tin said.

"That's why we are shocked. These comments are racist, of course, which harken back to the colonial period and it seems unacceptable. For now, we are planning to file a complaint," he said.

France's finance minister, Christine Laguarde, also weighed in on the comments, telling RTL on Saturday, "It's pathetic. I simply hope this is just senile and grotesque, that the apologies will really be sincere and gracious, but this is truly pathetic."

So, it's NOT OK for an old man to use a racial epithet in the context of making a folksy remark, which is all he did in my opinion, but it IS OK to take the same 70 year old man to court, real court and the court of public opinion, roast him and denigrate him, and suggest that he is senile and make highly personal aspersions towards him..... yah, that's fair. :grey:

Seriously, the proper punishment is to roll your eyes at him and ignore him. I thought the French excelled at that.

[The "racial epithet" was Negro.]

[shiningbrow]

Since when is the characteristic of being hard working a negative stereotype?

[Critter]

Since when is the characteristic of being hard working a negative stereotype?

Context doesn't mean a damn thing. It's the simple fact he said the word negro in an interview so he is inherently and obviously racist.

[Aloysius]

"travailler comme un nègre" is an obvious reference to slavery. Not specialy tasteful.
But the problem is the next sentence :
"Je ne sais pas si les nègres ont toujours tellement travailler, mais enfin..."
which does not means "I don't know if niggers ever worked that hard" but "I don't know if niggers have always worked so much".
And that's a stupid joke about "niggers" being lazy.

[Ergeheilalt]

I don't think I've ever said Negro - it's just got some baggage. I say African American or Black... or when I'm in Oakland, I just don't say anything.

[Ancalagon]

See... if he made the statement, was called out on it, and sincerely apologized for it... can't we just leave it at that? He's not promoting hatred, he made a blunder.

[shiningbrow]

"travailler comme un nègre" is an obvious reference to slavery. Not specialy tasteful.
But the problem is the next sentence :
"Je ne sais pas si les nègres ont toujours tellement travailler, mais enfin..."
which does not means "I don't know if niggers ever worked that hard" but "I don't know if niggers have always worked so much".
And that's a stupid joke about "niggers" being lazy.

I didn't realize. I understand the offense now. Still, to be fined for such a comment seems a bit much. It certainly wouldn't bring about such a charge in the U.S.

I live in Oakland. When it's necessary for me to distinguish the race of a person of African descent, I say, "African American" as it's the preferred identification. But, I must say, I find it refreshing to live in a place where there are so many well educated middle class blacks that race is generally beside the point. I shop in alot of ethnically diverse areas and it's nice that people are just people. The whole concept of race as a qualifier has always bothered me as an artificial construct that has such obviously negative applications. I long for a day when it won't even be an issue.

[Aloysius]

See... if he made the statement, was called out on it, and sincerely apologized for it... can't we just leave it at that? He's not promoting hatred, he made a blunder.

I agree with that. But some associations are trigger-happy. I mean, lawyer-happy.

[alternate identity]

Ah, yes - the "n" word. I have seen old movies on television, where the word was used in the script, and bleeped out by the broadcaster.

I don't consider it offensive so much as a mark of the kind of person who says it - and does so because he thinks it is the proper pronunciation. They are rather low class.

But then I have not socially acceptable views concerning the origins of the War Between The States. The explanation for that war, if you seriously do your homework, is very complex and is not (contrary to what they teach in high school in the US) all that involved with slavery. It has a lot more to do with an obsolete economic model and being shut out in attempts to modernize.

Let the flame wars begin...

AI

[The Winslow]

nègre nègre nègre nègre nègre nègre nègre nègre...


Seems I can say it just fine.

By the way, the saying that does actually exist is "travailler comme un forçat" (reference to the old sentence of forced work for certain crimes), or "faire un travail de Romain" (reference to all those paved roads and aqueducts and arenas and stuff that the Romans left all over the place). Never read or heard the variant with negros before. And yes, I did read stuff older than political correctness.

[Ancalagon]

I've heard it before Winslow - and the meaning is the same as forçat (forcenat?). The implication was that the negros (to use the term) were recognized as very hard workers when used as slave labour.

That being said, I never heard "faire un travail de Romain" but I rather like it. It could be ambiguous though because Roman can have such a plethora of meanings.

[cnath.rm]

As long as musicians of any and all colors are also fined for using the same words then I'm ok with it.

[Trainz]

As long as musicians of any and all colors are also fined for using the same words then I'm ok with it.

Pretty much THIS.

Hypocrisy, double standards, bullshit... you pick.

[Aloysius]

As I said, the problem in ths particular case is not the "n" word. It's what is added after. Note that "nègre" is frequently used to designate the real author of a book written by some lazy celeb by example.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Considering the current situation in France, I think it would be dangerous to say ANYTHING in public, right now.
For that matter, just going outside your dwelling would be dangerous, right now (assuming you still have gasoline to go anywhere with.)

Someone needs to start a new thread concerning the rioting occurring in France right now. It's a national emergency there, a nationwide situation.

[The Winslow]

There's no rioting occuring. Just strikes and demonstrations.

[Old Fart]

So, it's NOT OK for an old man to use a racial epithet in the context of making a folksy remark, which is all he did in my opinion, but it IS OK to take the same 70 year old man to court, real court and the court of public opinion, roast him and denigrate him, and suggest that he is senile and make highly personal aspersions towards him..... yah, that's fair. :grey:If he did make the remark due to senility, then he's basically being vilified for beginning to show signs of Alzheimers. If this turns out to be the case; then my occasional joke about the French aside, I doubt they will stand for it.

But then I have not socially acceptable views concerning the origins of the War Between The States.I grew up in Alabama. Trust me, you cannot present any argument I have not heard presented far less intelligently and far more offensively before. Your ability to properly conjugate verbs alone puts you in the leading crest of the wave.

I don't think I've ever said Negro - it's just got some baggage.One cannot discuss basic color in Spanish or major minority collegiate scholarship funds without using the word.

Spoiler-ed for old-man rant:

Like, AI, I have a socially unacceptable opinion. I have noticed an undeniable difference between the races in America. Not intelligence, or athletic ability, or values, or any of the other stereotypes - that's all a bunch of malarkey, dependent on an individual person, not their ethnicity. No, the one actual difference is something only a gamer would notice: Magic Resistance. That's right, Magic Resistance.

You see, Caucasians in this country are mostly immune to Power Word: Enrage. Many attempts have been made to create some version that will work on more than a very few individuals; and they have all failed.

African Americans, on the other hand, are extremely susceptible to Power Word: Enrage. Often, even the most intelligent, educated, level-headed individuals will fail their save, lose their capacity for rational and reasonable thought, and become easily manipulated.

It's sad, really, that a single word has that kind of power over someone. Especially when it seems to be such a low-level spell, that anyone can learn. Certainly, Intelligence is no requirement for learning it, nor is Wisdom, nor Charisma. But hey, what are you gonna do? Having low Magic Resistance sucks.

[Aloysius]

Someone needs to start a new thread concerning the rioting occurring in France right now. It's a national emergency there, a nationwide situation.

Don't believe the trash you may find in some medias... Ask the resident frogs of the board : the biggest problem right now is the garbage accumulation in Marseilles. So, business as usual, because Marseilles is France's Naples (only slightly better).

[Ancalagon]

David Chapelle has an very, very, very incorrect take on this issue... but it's pretty hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHFUH_frhBw