Just the women: Have you ever been assaulted, abused or raped?

[Cat of Ulthar]

I chose to post this here and not in Sex Ed because rape has not so much to do with sex as it has with violence and power-abuse.

I hear of so many women in my surroundings who have been raped, abused or assaulted, and I see so many comments here, that it is starting to seem to me like something almost inevitable to happen in a woman's life. Which is horrible. I can't bear the thought of my little sister suffering something like that. Thank the Gods I have no daughters.

So a small statistical survey poll. It is anonymous. Multiple options can be checked.

The definitions I used for this poll: rape is insertion of something (a dick, a bottle, a finger) in vagina or anus.
Sexual assault is unwanted touching with or without violence, intended by the assaulter to be sexual in nature. I also mean this to include an attempt to rape if you managed to prevent it.
Abuse is when someone uses a position of trust or authority to perform sexual acts with you you do not want. If this includes intercourse, tick rape as well.
Incest means contact of a by the instigating partner intended as sexual nature with a blood relative.

Your definitions may vary and there are bound to be blurry lines. Please do not clutter up the thread with legal definitions and stuff, but feel free to elucidate on your definition.

[Droid101]

This poll is depressing as hell. :(

[Cat of Ulthar]

Let's just hope lots of people tick the last option and my negative opinion on this can be revised...

[Cat of Ulthar]

Looks like not though... :(

Women who ticked anything other than the last option, my heart cries for you. May the rest of your lives be filled with love and strength, and may your daughters grow to be strong loving women who never need to fear.

[Dawnstar]

All I have to say is that when people think that they can not be raped by a boyfriend (in my case) or husband, they are wrong because they can force themselves on you just as a stranger can.

[Cat of Ulthar]

I'm teetering on my votes, because my ex pressured me into sex several times, sometimes rather forcefully. My psyche wasn't scarred (that was just from being in that psychotic marriage), but it wasn't nothing either.

Good point CC, I had not thought of that. Happened to me as well with my first boyfriend. I have no clue what I would class that under. For me, it was not rape, but it was insertion of a dick when I did not want it. I kicked him out, he got mad and broke up with me. That was the best thing he ever did for me.:D

I knew there would be blurry lines.:( Sorry. Tick what you think comes closest?

[Cat of Ulthar]

All I have to say is that when people think that they can not be raped by a boyfriend (in my case) or husband, they are wrong because they can force themselves on you just as a stranger can.

That is so wrong. I was amazed when I read in a book at school that rape within marriage only came to be recognised in the fifties. It reduces the woman to a position of sexual submission where she has to spread whenever her husband tells her to. Yuck.:mad:

Please tell me people do not still think that way.:(

[Atropine Mama]

It will have been a year ago in mid-October that I was sexually assaulted/raped. Complete stranger at a costume party, beat me very badly but luckily no broken bones, just lacerations and deep bruises. How foolish of me to think that no monster would choose a fat, homely 30 year old mother as a target. Anyway, I've recovered pretty well and have taken some very, very important lessons from the experience.

I too fear for my daughter and, well, sons too, because women aren't the only ones who experience these things. However, life goes on, I'm stronger for it and can only teach my kids in the best ways I know how to protect themselves and recover if the worst does happen.

It's taken almost a year to really open up about this, I can't believe I'm gonna post this. /cringe/

[Atropine Mama]

That is so wrong. I was amazed when I read in a book at school that rape within marriage only came to be recognised in the fifties. It reduces the woman to a position of sexual submission where she has to spread whenever her husband tells her to. Yuck.:mad:

Please tell me people do not still think that way.:(


According to KoS, yeah, some people do, and some of them are lawmakers. (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/showpost.php?p=11892&postcount=16) I believe he is correct.

Though, as an interesting side note, I discovered in law school, it is a legal impossibility for one spouse to rape another in many jurisdictions.

[Brynja]

It will have been a year ago in mid-October that I was sexually assaulted/raped. Complete stranger at a costume party, beat me very badly but luckily no broken bones, just lacerations and deep bruises. How foolish of me to think that no monster would choose a fat, homely 30 year old mother as a target. Anyway, I've recovered pretty well and have taken some very, very important lessons from the experience.

I too fear for my daughter and, well, sons too, because women aren't the only ones who experience these things. However, life goes on, I'm stronger for it and can only teach my kids in the best ways I know how to protect themselves and recover if the worst does happen.

It's taken almost a year to really open up about this, I can't believe I'm gonna post this. /cringe/


Love ya Bella. :tearsofjoy:

[Sobek]

That is so wrong. I was amazed when I read in a book at school that rape within marriage only came to be recognised in the fifties. It reduces the woman to a position of sexual submission where she has to spread whenever her husband tells her to. Yuck.:mad:

Please tell me people do not still think that way.:(

I'm not saying this is the case, but I can see a certain train of thought that equates marriage with sex and that, once you've agreed to it, you've agreed to it. In that regard, I could see the attitude that a women can't sexuall assault her husband (as you defined it above).

Again, it's not that some/many men don't/didn't think of women as property. Just that, in a lot of ways, Western society (and only Western society, really) is only just starting to realize that some things are more complex than they seem.

I've had women close to me raped. It's a shitty thing that affects people for years, even decades. My heart genuinely goes out to the ladies who've checked anything except the last option.

[Harry]

For some reason, you addressed this thread to "Just the women", which suggests that men or boys are never assaulted, raped or abused, or that such abuse is somehow different. So I voted.

[Cat of Ulthar]

For some reason, you addressed this thread to "Just the women", which suggests that men or boys are never assaulted, raped or abused, or that such abuse is somehow different. So I voted.

No, sorry Harry if it came across that way. On the contrary, the reason I addressed it to "Just the women" is that I *know* men get assaulted, raped and abused as well, but I just wanted to know what the percentage was for women, so I did not want the men to vote.

This was in no way intended to ignore the fact that violence of a sexual nature happens to men too, and that it is just as traumatizing for them.

And shit, if you say you voted, I think you mean that you did not vote for the last option. Which makes me cry, and furious.:(

[Harry]

Sorry I screwed up your methodology.

I talked about it once, way back in the original "Anonymous Forum", and pretty much decided I never want to talk about it publicly again. Anyone who gets close and personal with me, physically, is going to eventually find out about it though.

[Janos]

Probably the most traumatic event in my life as a kid was when my best friend was raped and eventually committed suicide over it. For what little its worth, my heart goes out to those who have suffered it.

[Cat of Ulthar]

It will have been a year ago in mid-October that I was sexually assaulted/raped. Complete stranger at a costume party, beat me very badly but luckily no broken bones, just lacerations and deep bruises. How foolish of me to think that no monster would choose a fat, homely 30 year old mother as a target. Anyway, I've recovered pretty well and have taken some very, very important lessons from the experience.

I too fear for my daughter and, well, sons too, because women aren't the only ones who experience these things. However, life goes on, I'm stronger for it and can only teach my kids in the best ways I know how to protect themselves and recover if the worst does happen.

It's taken almost a year to really open up about this, I can't believe I'm gonna post this. /cringe/

Oh no. Oh. Shit. I am so sorry to hear that Bella.

Fuck that incredible scumbag, you are a great and wonderful and loving woman and why do fucking unthinking *cunts* try to destroy that!!!:mad: :cry: I can't understand what goes on in the mind of someone who does something like that, I really can't. I hope he is slowly dying of something very painful.

You are a strong woman and you always seemed very confident. I hope that can get you through, and that some day you will again feel just as strong and confident as before.

[Ancalagon]

damn this thread is depressing :(

I would offer comfort, but I can't think of any words that would suffice.

[GreyOne]

:(

My daughter will be a kung-fu wielding killing machine before she is ten years old. I swear it.

[The Winslow]

How foolish of me to think that no monster would choose a fat, homely 30 year old mother as a target.
Don't ever think you're not attractive enough to be a rape victim.

First, because you shouldn't think you're not attractive.

Then, because rape is not uncontroled lust for sex, but uncontroled lust for violence. Rapists will target anyone they think is weak enough to not resist, and that include little children (even if, clinically, the rapist is not a pedophile), grandmothers in wheelchair, and everything in between, even men. Attractiveness and sexual orientation doesn't matter. It's psychopaths thinking of themselves as predators and of everyone else as potential preys.

No, sorry Harry if it came across that way. On the contrary, the reason I addressed it to "Just the women" is that I *know* men get assaulted, raped and abused as well, but I just wanted to know what the percentage was for women, so I did not want the men to vote.

You should have provided us an option, even if just an "I'm a guy."

[bunny]

It's taken almost a year to really open up about this, I can't believe I'm gonna post this. /cringe/

Don't cringe. Posting is a form of bravery that will help prevent this person from doing any more harm to you.


I realize I didn't vote entirely honestly, because there are still things that I cannot fully admit in the light of day.

[Edena_of_Neith]

(look of horror at the results of the poll, and the pain people here have suffered)

[Northcott]

No, sorry Harry if it came across that way. On the contrary, the reason I addressed it to "Just the women" is that I *know* men get assaulted, raped and abused as well, but I just wanted to know what the percentage was for women, so I did not want the men to vote.

You've got somewhat skewed results just from the fact that a person can choose multiple options. You're getting less of a "percentage of women", and more of a "here's the spread of crime types".

Last I heard, there are estimations that such activities are equal among genders in terms of victimization, or fairly close to. Reported far less often by men, but there's a fairly widely-held belief that men just don't speak of this kind of thing when it does happen. The ol' Red Foreman approach: bottle it up and bury it deep.

To add a perhaps controversial note to this: some people go so far as to list someone grabbing them by the ass at the workplace as a "sexual assault". I think that stretching the term to encompass so much is somewhat belittling of the true horror of what a sexual assault is/can be. It's rude, it's unwanted, it's something that only filth would be proud of doing -- but it just doesn't sit well with me that some lump it in with so potent a term.

[PWD]

...and people still give me shit for calling for scalps on this stuff.

Good lord, people. :(

[Janos]

This thread is depressing beyond words.

Northcott, you can see the total number of voters at the bottom of the poll. Take that into consideration with the results shown.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

/hugs Bella

I don't even want to look at the results...

[Brynja]

Northcott is right, it does skew because of multiple options. I had to choose 5 options, so there is a series that is just me. Not many others if that makes sense

[Hastur T. Fannon]

That is so wrong. I was amazed when I read in a book at school that rape within marriage only came to be recognised in the fifties. It reduces the woman to a position of sexual submission where she has to spread whenever her husband tells her to. Yuck.:mad:

Given the number of people skipping over verse 21 on the way to Ephesians 5:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians%205:21-22;&version=31;), I'm not surprised the number of people reading the first half of 1 Cor 7:4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=7&verse=4&version=31&context=verse) without reading the second

[Cat of Ulthar]

You should have provided us an option, even if just an "I'm a guy."
You're a guy?:confused:[/drmidnight]
I, or someone else, can start a poll for the guys too. I am curious to see what would come out of that. Harry got me thinking, and I thought that in some ways it must be even more difficult for men (if you can ever give degrees of difficulty in something like this), because society does not expect it to happen to men, and you may feel less "manly" for not being able to prevent it.

You've got somewhat skewed results just from the fact that a person can choose multiple options. You're getting less of a "percentage of women", and more of a "here's the spread of crime types".
Er... Never been good at statistics, but isn't it correct though? I mean, if you were assaulted AND raped, you can say that 29%of the women on this board have been raped, and 14 % of them have been assaulted, and you are a member of both classes.

Last I heard, there are estimations that such activities are equal among genders in terms of victimization, or fairly close to. Reported far less often by men, but there's a fairly widely-held belief that men just don't speak of this kind of thing when it does happen. The ol' Red Foreman approach: bottle it up and bury it deep.
:eek: Equal!?!? Fuck, is there no one who never suffers from it? Is it the fucking norm?!?! Sod this, I'm starting a man's poll too. Anonymous. Of course.

To add a perhaps controversial note to this: some people go so far as to list someone grabbing them by the ass at the workplace as a "sexual assault". I think that stretching the term to encompass so much is somewhat belittling of the true horror of what a sexual assault is/can be. It's rude, it's unwanted, it's something that only filth would be proud of doing -- but it just doesn't sit well with me that some lump it in with so potent a term.
That's why I did not use the legal definition, and left it open. I trust the women on here when they vote for what they class as sexual assault, that it seemed like a proper assault to them. What that is, I leave to their discretion. I am not in a trial jury here.
Northcott is right, it does skew because of multiple options. I had to choose 5 options, so there is a series that is just me. Not many others if that makes sense
Fuck.:(

[doc]

Sad to see all the abuse, i said I wouldn't do it but..

{{{{{{Friendly Hug}}}}}}}}}

[Lady Fury]

I've been raped twice in my lifetime. The first time I was a minor and it was a law enforcement official that raped me while I was handcuffed to his desk. I was a runaway and my foster father said I had beaten his daughter that night. Instead of calling my parents they called my foster parents and they told the police officer to do what ever he wanted with me. I never told my parents what happened that night. As far as they know, I was only beaten.

The second time was when I was in college. I was on my way to work at 5am. I walked to work since it wasn't that far from my dorm. I was jumped from behind and dragged into an area behind a building. I tried to fight back but I wasn't strong enough.

Since then I've taken a few self defense programs and feel safe enough in my ability to protect myself if this were ever to happen again.

I know several women who have been raped by strangers. I'd say 1 in 3 women are raped from the people I know.:(

[Brynja]

I have just sorta resigned myself to the reality that if anything like that should happen to me again one of us will die in the process.

[Lady Fury]

I have just sorta resigned myself to the reality that if anything like that should happen to me again one of us will die in the process.

That's what I'm thinking as well. I know that younger girls tend to have a higher risk of being raped. Hopefully I won't be targeted as a victim now that I'm older.

[nerfherder]

damn this thread is depressing :(

I would offer comfort, but I can't think of any words that would suffice.

Same here :(

[Cat of Ulthar]

I've been raped twice in my lifetime. The first time I was a minor and it was a law enforcement official that raped me while I was handcuffed to his desk. I was a runaway and my foster father said I had beaten his daughter that night. Instead of calling my parents they called my foster parents and they told the police officer to do what ever he wanted with me. I never told my parents what happened that night. As far as they know, I was only beaten.

The second time was when I was in college. I was on my way to work at 5am. I walked to work since it wasn't that far from my dorm. I was jumped from behind and dragged into an area behind a building. I tried to fight back but I wasn't strong enough.

Since then I've taken a few self defense programs and feel safe enough in my ability to protect myself if this were ever to happen again.

I know several women who have been raped by strangers. I'd say 1 in 3 women are raped from the people I know.:(

Holy shit, that is horrible. :eek: Both instances are. I am so sorry to hear this.:(
How are you now?

[Northcott]

I've been raped twice in my lifetime. The first time I was a minor and it was a law enforcement official that raped me while I was handcuffed to his desk.

It's the penultimate betrayal when authority figures are rotten to the core. In St. John's the cops covered up for the Catholic Church, while "Christian Brothers" sexually molested and viciously abused (tied to hot pipes, etc) the orphaned and foster boys under their "care". It was a huge scandal back in the 80's that destroyed, at last, the Church's hold on the people of Newfoundland -- which had been staunchly Catholic to that point.

[Lady Fury]

I'm fine now. The one that bothered me the most was the police officer. I have a hard time trusting any of them now. I still feel the pains from the beating I took that night. I had some counsellings and my parents took me back, which really helped me move on from the incident. Looking back now, I should have told my dad what had really happened. I know that he would have gone after the officer for what he had done to his daughter.

I don't fear men because of the rapes that had happened to me. It's not men who did this to me. It was monsters.

[King Vyper]

...and people still give me shit for calling for scalps on this stuff.

Good lord, people. :(

I am with ya buddy.

True Story of Southern Justice

There was a 8 year old girl here is Ga, Her mother was pimping her daughter out to a pedophile out for drugs. Well the mothers family found out about this. They swooped in rescued the girl and procedded to curb stomp the mother and the pedo.

[TiQuinn]

Having two daughters, all I can hope is that if anything like this were to happen to either of them, that I be told and that I have the opportunity to find the motherfucker.

That said, I'm signing them up in the same kung fu class that Greyone's signing up his little girl.

[Northcott]

My wife gets irritable with me (at best) when I tell her that I've every intention of teaching our daughter how to kill or cripple a man as necessary. Some people say I'm paranoid. Those people need a slap upside the head and a reality check.

[Ancalagon]

Right now half the city is afright because of a brutal rape that happened at the cartleton campus a few days ago. Some of the more tabloidy newspapers are having big headline saying "rappist will strike again".

I really hopes he gets stopped in time.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Since this (incredibly painful and private) subject has been brought into the open, I wish to express my public support to those on this board who have been the victims of rape.
Or, rather, the victims of Monsters.

I have an answer to the Monsters. Brand their privates with a red hot knife. Then start cutting on the rest of their bodies with said knife.
I can hate too. And I hate rapists. May they all rot in hell.

Sincerely Yours
Edena_of_Neith

[Goblin Girl]

My wife gets irritable with me (at best) when I tell her that I've every intention of teaching our daughter how to kill or cripple a man as necessary. Some people say I'm paranoid. Those people need a slap upside the head and a reality check.
She does? Why?

My mother insisted that "ladies don't fight" and that as a Christian I should always turn the other cheek. She insisted upon that even when I was getting the shit beat out of me after school every day. Ultimately it made me believe that she thought I was so worthless that I deserved whatever beatings I got. And other things that I got as well.

Little girls need to be taught to fight for their lives. Not only could it keep them alive, it teaches them they're *worth* keeping alive.

[Brynja]

My wife gets irritable with me (at best) when I tell her that I've every intention of teaching our daughter how to kill or cripple a man as necessary. Some people say I'm paranoid. Those people need a slap upside the head and a reality check.


Definately sign her up, and teach her to drop someone as required. Understand though it may not save her in the end. I never saw it coming. Literally. I was with my sister and we were walking home from fireworks together. That was the last thing I remember before waking up in the woods with him. He hit me in the back of the head with a brick and backhanded my sister. Neither of us had a chance to even react. So totally teach her but don't let it lull her or yourself into a sense of total security.

[Edena_of_Neith]

By all means, Northcott, teach her to fight. You got MY support on that!

Edena_of_Neith

[Northcott]

She does? Why?

My mother insisted that "ladies don't fight" and that as a Christian I should always turn the other cheek. She insisted upon that even when I was getting the shit beat out of me after school every day. Ultimately it made me believe that she thought I was so worthless that I deserved whatever beatings I got. And other things that I got as well.

Little girls need to be taught to fight for their lives. Not only could it keep them alive, it teaches them they're *worth* keeping alive.


Your mom and my mom should form a club of like-minded Christian ladies to hang out at. Don't get in fights, but never back down from a bully! My old man, on the other hand, used to whup on me if I came home after being beat up by bullies, regardless of the numbers or ages of kids involved. Damned if you do...


Definately sign her up, and teach her to drop someone as required. Understand though it may not save her in the end. I never saw it coming. Literally. I was with my sister and we were walking home from fireworks together. That was the last thing I remember before waking up in the woods with him. He hit me in the back of the head with a brick and backhanded my sister. Neither of us had a chance to even react. So totally teach her but don't let it lull her or yourself into a sense of total security.

Do I really seem like the kind of guy who fosters a sense of security? Never mind a false one. ;)

[PWD]

My wife gets irritable with me (at best) when I tell her that I've every intention of teaching our daughter how to kill or cripple a man as necessary.

Please have her read this thread. Heck, both your wife and your daughter.

[Brynja]

*LOL* No Ed you dont seem like the type to let your guard down when it comes to your little girl.

I can see her bringing a boyfriend home and you just hurling cinder blocks casually.

[Northcott]

*LOL* No Ed you dont seem like the type to let your guard down when it comes to your little girl.

I can see her bringing a boyfriend home and you just hurling cinder blocks casually.

The only reason I'll terrify her boyfriends is because it will provide a distraction from the real threat. :D

Well, that, and I'll probably be thinking about bringing GBH to the party (Grievous Bodily Harm -- stand in for Death as one of the four horsemen).

[Northcott]

*LOL* No Ed you dont seem like the type to let your guard down when it comes to your little girl.

I can see her bringing a boyfriend home and you just hurling cinder blocks casually.


Since I'm thinking about it more seriously now: one of the first important things you learn under the tutelage of a reputable martial arts teacher is just how frighteningly fragile we all are. Learning self-defense is as much about promoting awareness of one's environment and confidence in ability to adapt as it is about dealing with the physical elements.

My wife thinks I'm paranoid because I'm constantly assessing people's tone of voice, body language, etc. I attempt to remain alert to the nuances of everything around me, including that which is behind me. She's got a horrible habit of clinging to me if things get tense, so in situations where it looks like a challenge may be present, I've made her let go of my hand pre-emptively.

I've still been swarmed by a gang and had my ass beat, though. :D

[Brynja]

I have been leery of signing up for a class, mostly just uncomfortable at touching someone like that. I worry I won't be able to let up and that isnt right, or acceptable.

[Janos]

I have been leery of signing up for a class, mostly just uncomfortable at touching someone like that. I worry I won't be able to let up and that isnt right, or acceptable.

I helped teach women's self-defense classes (as opposed to formal martial arts). It is perfectly acceptable and common that you can't let up. The guy in the red suit expects to get beat to hell, that's part of the exercise.

[Northcott]

Heh! I live in a town with two universities and a college. Back when I was practicing regularly, my teacher recruited some of the lads from the class to help with a weekend seminar he was doing for the University girls. Now, Manny's reasons were as noble as it gets: these girls are prime target age for sexual assault, and universities are notorious as stalking grounds for these sickos. He thought he'd be nice and teach them some basic Fillipino methods of dealing with this kind of thing.

So of course, with his own class full of athletic young men who have visions of cute co-eds dancing in their heads, he easily gets the number of volunteers he needs to run the seminar.

I show up for Monday's class and see Scott limping around. Another kid whose name I now forget was nursing a bruised throat. Claw marks. Bruises. All kinds of fun.

Some girls had aggression issues. Some guys were cocky. Some girls were caught up in the "I'm small and powerless, society says so!" victim mentality... and so didn't really believe they could hurt the combat-trained guy they were smacking in the throat with the spine of a textbook.

Yeah, I laughed. I'm a bit of a jerk that way.

[Brynja]

It's is why I find most of your posts so endearing. You are an unabashed jackass.

[Janos]

Yeah, I laughed. I'm a bit of a jerk that way.

Redsuit guy is a rough job. I've gotten worse beatings in that giant padded suit than I have bare knuckled.

[Northcott]

Redsuit guy is a rough job. I've gotten worse beatings in that giant padded suit than I have bare knuckled.

That's the funny part -- there were no red suits! :D Manny taught us a variant on the family fighting tradition that was handed down to him -- which meant that if you were hurt, you were supposed to suck it up and keep fighting. So he'd tell us not to do any real damage to each other, but if you took a hard hit, got a bloody nose, bruises, etc, he'd just come over and grin as if he were proud of you, pat you on the back, and check to see if you were okay to continue.

So... yeah. You can imagine the horror stories the guys had after that self-defence seminar. :D Especially since Manny really was showing the girls how to collapse somebody's trachea with a textbook. Not that serious injuries resulted, mind you. Just that the girls didn't quite grasp the idea of: make the motion, but don't really hit your partner.

[Janos]

Just that the girls didn't quite grasp the idea of: make the motion, but don't really hit your partner.

If they didn't teach women to actually hit a real target, then a lot of the lesson was lost. IME, the hardest part of teaching female self-defense is making sure they can channel the rage and hit back, and familiarizing themselves with what it feels like to connect. Junk kick drills to make sure you really got them, actually connecting with the breastbone with a mini-baton, etc.

Get them away from clawing randomly and scratching, and into actually using their body as a weapon. Bodily contact is the only way you can really teach someone to fight and defend themselves. Overcoming that fear is the hardest part.

[Cat of Ulthar]

Problem is there; a few self-defense classes may help, but when you are overpowered by someone, many women (including me) blank out. It is such a shock that you revert to your primal instincts: scream, sratch, bite; or, which happens to many women unfortunately, black out and cannot fight back at all. And that is assuming it is a stranger who attacks you, if it is someone you are involved with in a level of intimacy, or who has authority over you, it gets even more complex. And when someone hits you over the head with a brick like the incredible monster did to Brynja, or points a gun at your head...

Still I think self-defense classes are a very good idea because they make many women more aware of the psychologic effects of how you walk, for instance: a timid scared creature wakes up more aggression than a strong confident one. Secondly, it gives women the idea they can defend themselves and thus makes them seem more confident. And even if it helps one woman once resist an attack, they are worth while.

Don't rely on them though. Do as Northcott and Greyone do, put your daughters (and sons!) on kung fu from the age of three so that the ways to attack and defend come instinctively - when you have to think about what to do you're too late. And teach your sons (and daughters!) to respect people and that there is never an excuse for sexual violence. Not her short skirt. Not her teasing and changing her mind at the last moment. Not your being too drunk to think. Not her first saying yes and then saying no. Not her saying no but her pussy being wet. None.

[Freedom Canadian]

Do I really seem like the kind of guy who fosters a sense of security? Never mind a false one. ;)

You should stage false ambushes at random times like in the Pink Panther. :D

Learning self-defense is as much about promoting awareness of one's environment and confidence in ability to adapt as it is about dealing with the physical elements.

A successful ambush is worth almost any amount of skill in a fight. I mean, you can be Jet Li but if someone hits you with a brick behind the head, it's most likely all over.

This is where being slightly paranoid helps, I think. I mean, I'm the kind of person who will cross the street every time I see someone else walking down on the same side at night and so on. Yeah, I feel a bit silly, but you know, better safe than sorry. :)

I also keep checking every 3 minutes to see if my wallet is still there when I take the subway.



Problem is there; a few self-defense classes may help, but when you are overpowered by someone, many women (including me) blank out.

That's not just women, btw. Everybody does that when attacked for real, including most black belts.

It's just that women look like softer prey, so they get attacked more, but I'd wager most men's chances of fending off an attacked wouldn't be very high either.



Still I think self-defense classes are a very good idea because they make many women more aware of the psychologic effects of how you walk, for instance: a timid scared creature wakes up more aggression than a strong confident one. Secondly, it gives women the idea they can defend themselves and thus makes them seem more confident. And even if it helps one woman once resist an attack, they are worth while.

Yes. :)



In any case, here is a nice video primer to self defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2REG3-Wb5gM&mode=related&search



Stay safe, people ! :)

[Ancalagon]

The "fight or flight" instinctual response is miss named - it should be "fight, flight or *freeze*". When under attack, freezing is usually not a good idea at all, but I'm not sure how people can make sure that their reptile brain doesn't choose that option...

Ancalagon

[Janos]

When under attack, freezing is usually not a good idea at all, but I'm not sure how people can make sure that their reptile brain doesn't choose that option...

Practice.

Having someone attack you or throw punches at you is the only way to overcome that. That's why I have very little respect for programs that teach fighting just by practice punches in slow motion without a physical full-speed sparring compontent. Even sparring is a weak substitute, but its the best you can really do in a practice setting. Unless there is a very real chance you will be hurt and do hurt, you just aren't going to get the insticts that will really save you in the crunch.

Eventually you reach the point where training overrules instinct in 95% of the circumstances. Nothing will ever overcome the last 5%, but you do what you can.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

My wife gets irritable with me (at best) when I tell her that I've every intention of teaching our daughter how to kill or cripple a man as necessary.

Here's an idea - don't teach patty-cake, teach chi sao instead (not the formal drills, just the principles and make a game of it). It's just as good (better?) for co-ordination and will be much more useful in the long run

[Xavier Lang]

This is where being slightly paranoid helps, I think. I mean, I'm the kind of person who will cross the street every time I see someone else walking down on the same side at night and so on. Yeah, I feel a bit silly, but you know, better safe than sorry. :)

I always felt bad when people would cross the street to get away from me at night. I understood why they did it. I'm not a little guy and I don't have a naturally friendly look but it always reminded me of what kind of society I lived in.

[Northcott]

I always felt bad when people would cross the street to get away from me at night. I understood why they did it. I'm not a little guy and I don't have a naturally friendly look but it always reminded me of what kind of society I lived in.

Ditto. I'm extremely self-conscious of that element. I don't like being near other people's kids, I hate running into women at night when the street's deserted, etc. It fucking sucks.


Here's an idea - don't teach patty-cake, teach chi sao instead (not the formal drills, just the principles and make a game of it). It's just as good (better?) for co-ordination and will be much more useful in the long run

Heh. Waaaay beyond me. I only ever monkeyed around with most martial arts. The only one I was serious about was Arnis de Mano, and that's a pretty brutal, straight-forward style. I'm not even familiar with what chi sao is... though I still remember the 12 critical striking spots from stick fighting.

If they didn't teach women to actually hit a real target, then a lot of the lesson was lost.

You know, that's an excellent point. I'm surprised that Manny didn't think of it. He was, overall, an excellent teacher. He was an old-fashioned kind of guy, though, and I suppose the idea of exposing women to our normal form of training just didn't click. He was more focused on quick and dirty little moves that would give a girl time to get the Hell away.


Still I think self-defense classes are a very good idea because they make many women more aware of the psychologic effects of how you walk, for instance: a timid scared creature wakes up more aggression than a strong confident one. Secondly, it gives women the idea they can defend themselves and thus makes them seem more confident. And even if it helps one woman once resist an attack, they are worth while.

I really believe that the confidence factor is perhaps the greatest element drawn out of martial training. It transforms how you interact with the world.


You should stage false ambushes at random times like in the Pink Panther. :D

At first I laughed... then I realized that I'm already doing that. ;) Not yet two and she's used to her father leaping out from concealment. By the time she's four, she should be punting me in the face for such behaviour.

A successful ambush is worth almost any amount of skill in a fight. I mean, you can be Jet Li but if someone hits you with a brick behind the head, it's most likely all over.

Unless you're the luckiest fucker in the world, yes. And that point really can't be over-emphasized. It's been my experience that very, very few people will actually seek a straight-up fight. Even working the bars, where liquid courage inspired many a jackass to try his luck when he should have just shut the fuck up and gone home, the number of wankers who would try ambushes or cheap shots was really high.

That's not just women, btw. Everybody does that when attacked for real, including most black belts.

It's just that women look like softer prey, so they get attacked more, but I'd wager most men's chances of fending off an attacked wouldn't be very high either.

If you ever want to see what two average guys really look like when they fight, go rent Brigit Jones' Diary. Seriously. I was all grumbly when my wife got me to watch that with her, and I ended up laughing my ass off. Now I go out of my way to watch that scene when the movie comes on the tube. It's the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen! :D

And save for two Hollywood moments where one character gets in a really nice punch, it's exactly what you see when two shmucks without thorough training get into it. Best part? Every guy talks about these fights after the fact like he was Bruce Lee.

Hell, when I first started working as a bouncer, the first couple times things went to Hell I was blinking like a deer in the headlights... and that was with a fair amount of training under my belt. It takes awhile to get your groove.

[Freedom Canadian]

I always felt bad when people would cross the street to get away from me at night. I understood why they did it. I'm not a little guy and I don't have a naturally friendly look but it always reminded me of what kind of society I lived in.

That's nothing. The people I feel bad for are the black kids. Say I was waiting for the bus in those small shelter thingies and people come in. It's small, so we're gonna be close, so if they're kids (or suspicious looking adults), I'll grab my bag and hold it close to prevent anyone grabbing it and running. Now I guarantee you that black kids think I'm doing that because I think blacks are thieves.



And save for two Hollywood moments where one character gets in a really nice punch, it's exactly what you see when two shmucks without thorough training get into it.

Yeah, and fights where the people do have training (or where one guy needs to restrain the other guy) usually end up as ground grappling.

Hell, when I first started working as a bouncer, the first couple times things went to Hell I was blinking like a deer in the headlights... and that was with a fair amount of training under my belt. It takes awhile to get your groove.

Yeah, and most people won't get into fights enough times in their lives to ever get their groove.

[Morbidity]

I think a lot of self defence training is focussed on defending yourself against a stranger, what is covered poorly is the thought of using that force against someone you know.

I had an excellent self-defence course at high school taught by an ex-rape detective who couldn't handle talking to broken women anymore and so decided he'd try and teach women to defend themselves. He just taught us a few things, but then told us to go home and practice them every night for the next 6 weeks, with the idea that they'd become an automatic response.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

Heh. Waaaay beyond me. I only ever monkeyed around with most martial arts. The only one I was serious about was Arnis de Mano, and that's a pretty brutal, straight-forward style. I'm not even familiar with what chi sao is... though I still remember the 12 critical striking spots from stick fighting.

"Sticky hands" - also translated as "pushing hands" by those who can't say the words "sticky hands" without smirking. Kung fu thing really, particularly the southern styles like Wing Chun and it's descendants. Basically you play a game where you touch wrists with your partner and then you both try to touch the nose or the breastbone without using force. Bruce Lee uses it loads - it's how he smashes Robert Wall's face in in Enter the Dragon

[Northcott]

"Sticky hands" - also translated as "pushing hands" by those who can't say the words "sticky hands" without smirking. Kung fu thing really, particularly the southern styles like Wing Chun and it's descendants. Basically you play a game where you touch wrists with your partner and then you both try to touch the nose or the breastbone without using force. Bruce Lee uses it loads - it's how he smashes Robert Wall's face in in Enter the Dragon


Ah! I'm familiar with sticky hands. One of the guys I used to train with did Wing Chun for years before coming into Arnis, and brought it in as a useful application for the grappling and stick/knife-fighting elements. I always sucked at it. :)

BTW, jumping back a bit, and directed to Cat: My bad. I was wrong in remembering my stats. In terms of ratios of men and women that have been sexually assaulted, the number of women is much higher. Where estimates suggest that the numbers may be near equal, or even equal, is the number who were victimized as children. Once they reach adulthood, the numbers change dramatically.

Which, frankly, still sucks and is depressing as Hell. :(

[Cat of Ulthar]

For the statistics: I got a PM from someone who apologized for not reading properly before voting: She was the victim of incest as a minor.:(

General Kay, is it possible for you or Varaj to adapt the poll as well? I want to use a screenshot of it as a provoking discussion item.

[Rappaccini's Daughter]

General Kay, is it possible for you or Varaj to adapt the poll as well? I want to use a screenshot of it as a provoking discussion item.

Done.

:(

[Cat of Ulthar]

You know, this is kind of the result I expected. I had hoped I was wrong. I had hoped I maybe just hung out with the unlucky few.

A few things really scare me. One is: of the 30% of women who have never been the victim of sexual violence, how many have never been the victim of sexual violence yet? All Gods forbid, and I hope with all my hope that it will never happen to anyone ever, or ever again, but statistically, how many of those 6 are likely to still suffer a form of sexual violence some time!? :worried:
Like I asked in a former post, is it the fucking norm!?!?:shock: :worry:

[Northcott]

I'm afraid it is.

You know, I've heard it said that such crimes aren't about the sex, but about power, control, violence, etc. I'm not entirely sure of that. Not to say that it is purely attraction -- it seems obvious it's not -- but I think it's a mistake to entirely remove the sexual equation from this. They are sexual assaults, after all. And it seems as if they're more likely to happen in the early years of a woman's life, frequency of victimization petering off after their 20's... though there are, of course, many cases that show that it doesn't end there.

Bleagh! Enough thinking about this. Going to go lift and clear my head.

[Cat of Ulthar]

In most cases that you see in the paper, it does not seem to matter what the age of the victim is, just that she is there at the time, and female. But when I got assaulted, the police wanted to know every little detail about what I was wearing etc, because they said sometimes someone is specifically looking for a woman with long hair, or something like that. Most of the time it seems to be totally random though: the first person I see with a hole in the front will get it.

What also scared me, is that the women on this forum are not a representative cross-section of society. We are mostly young, independent, strong, educated women. I think in all, we are less likely to have suffered sexual violence than older, insecure, weak, uneducated women. So is the proper percentage higher?

And this is only looking at western Europe, Australia and the US. I don't want to think about places like Africa and yes, the Middle East.

Fuck this. :(

Move over Northcott, I need to clear my head too.