Celebrity attemps suicide by placebo

[Ancalagon]

oy....

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1627732/20091207/joel_billy.jhtml

Alexa Ray Joel Out Of Hospital After Homeopathic Overdose
Daughter of Billy Joel and Christie Brinkley was rushed to hospital on Saturday.

By Gil Kaufman

Alexa Ray Joel, 23, the daughter of Billy Joel and ex-wife Christie Brinkley, is resting at an undisclosed location after being rushed to the hospital on Saturday afternoon for what is being described as an overdose of homeopathic medication.

According to Newsday, Joel's family said the aspiring singer had taken an overdose of the homeopathic anti-inflammatory medication Traumeel. She was rushed to a Manhattan hospital after her roommate called 911 at around noon on Saturday. An unidentified police source told the New York Daily News, "She said [Alexa] had taken pills and was feeling despondent. ... She said she wasn't feeling good about herself."

Joel reportedly told medics she was having trouble breathing after taking some pills. The Associated Press reports that police say it is unclear whether the overdose was a suicide attempt or accidental. Sources told the Daily News that Joel had been distraught since her breakup with boyfriend and bandmate Jimmy Riot almost a year ago.

Emerging from the shadow of her father, one of the most popular and beloved American singer/songwriters of the 1970s and '80s, Alexa Ray has been trying to launch her own career in music. She released her debut EP, Sketches, in 2006, and was scheduled to perform twice in Manhattan this Thursday: at J&R Music World and at the New York Stock Exchange tree lighting. It was unknown at press time if she would still make those engagements, and a spokesperson for the singer could not be reached for comment at press time. Her latest single is a ballad called "Invisible," which her site describes as telling "the story of disappointment over losing love and self-esteem and finding female empowerment."

Billy Joel told Newsday that his daughter "is going to be fine." Alexa Ray is the only child of Joel and Brinkley, who divorced in 1994 after nine years of marriage. Joel has discussed his own suicide attempt by drinking furniture polish at age 21 following a hard breakup with a girlfriend. He has also battled with alcoholism, receiving treatment in 2002 and 2005. His third marriage, to Katie Lee, who was just five years older than Alexa when they married, ended in 2009 after five years.

Brinkley, long considered one of the most beautiful models of the modern era, has been married four times and recently suffered through an ugly divorce from

[The Winslow]

Homeopathic Overdose
Comedy gold.

[Dacke]

Some googling shows that Traumeel isn't homeopathic in the "contains one molecule of active substance in a olympic swimming pool's worth of solution" sense. It's a herbal thing, including things like Belladonna (aka deadly nightshade), a mercury compound, witch hazel (an adstringent), and St. John's wort (which has anti-depressant properties, and can fuck up other medicines).

[alternate identity]

Yes, but did it work?

AI

[Name Lips]

That's the great thing about placebos. They're things that DO work even when there's no reason for them to. They have actual effects on actual diseases - they're not just "in your head."

So I don't necessarily think it's impossible to suicide by placebo. But I doubt they could have THAT much of an effect. On the other hand, I've heard of voodoo curses actually killing people because they believed so strongly that the curses could actually kill. So maybe.

[Lady Fury]

I read about this last month. I was wondering if she tried to kill herself again when I first saw this post.

[DarwinOfMind]

Actually that's entirely the point of placebo effect Name Lips, it is just "in your head" That's not to say that it doesn't work, but the point is it's not what's in it.

The placebo effect works just as well if it's water, suger pill, or 3000 year old folk remedy. But the placebo doesn't work at all if you know it's not real.

So yeah, it is psychological, but it does work.

[DarwinOfMind]

I read about this last month. I was wondering if she tried to kill herself again when I first saw this post.


Anc's been posting alot of out of date articles lately, must take time for the internet to get up to canada. :)

[The Winslow]

Anc's been posting alot of out of date articles lately, must take time for the internet to get up to canada. :)

It's cold. The intertubes are all congested by ice rime.

[shiningbrow]

That's the great thing about placebos. They're things that DO work even when there's no reason for them to. They have actual effects on actual diseases - they're not just "in your head."

So I don't necessarily think it's impossible to suicide by placebo. But I doubt they could have THAT much of an effect. On the other hand, I've heard of voodoo curses actually killing people because they believed so strongly that the curses could actually kill. So maybe.


I remember a great Leave it to Beaver episode in which Eddie Haskell was sickened by a Voodoo Curse that Beaver put on him. Beaver had to engage in some kind of mumbo jumbo before Eddie would rally back to his old self again. Just goes to show you how powerful that mind-body link can really be!

[Ancalagon]

Some googling shows that Traumeel isn't homeopathic in the "contains one molecule of active substance in a olympic swimming pool's worth of solution" sense. It's a herbal thing, including things like Belladonna (aka deadly nightshade), a mercury compound, witch hazel (an adstringent), and St. John's wort (which has anti-depressant properties, and can fuck up other medicines).

Ok, let's look at it... unfortunately, I can't seem to find the pill form, but here is the ampule formulation:

Each 2.2 ml ampule contains: Arnica montana, radix 2X, Belladonna 2X, Calendula officinalis 2X, Chamomilla 3X, Millefolium 3X, Hepar sulphuris calcareum 6X, Symphytum officinale 6X 2.2 mcl each; Aconitum napellus 2X 1.32 mcl; Bellis perennis 2X, Mercurius solubilis 6X, 1.1 mcl each; Hypericum perforatum 2X 0.66 mcl; Echinacea 2X, Echinacea purpurea 2X 0.55 mcl each; Hamamelis virginiana 1X 0.22 mcl. Inactive ingredient: Sterile isotonic sodium chloride solution

First, does anyone know what the heck an mcl is? Second, the X is the dilution - but it's the number of 10 times dilutions done. So a 2X is a 100 fold dilution, and a 6X is a 1 000 000 fold dilution.

Edit: I found the tablet formulation:
Each 300 mg tablet contains: Aconitum napellus 3X (Reduces pain after injury) 30 mg; Arnica montana, radix 3X (Reduces swelling and bruising) 40 mg; Belladonna 4X (Reduces swelling and pain) 75 mg; Bellis perennis 2X (Treats bruises) 6 mg; Calendula officinalis 2X (Stimulates healing process) 15 mg; Chamomilla 3X (Soothing pain relief) 24 mg; Echinacea 2X (Immune support) 6 mg; Echinacea purpurea 2X (Stimulates healing process) 6 mg; Hamamelis virginiana 2X (Relieves bruised soreness) 15 mg; Hepar sulphuris calcareum 8X (Stimulates injury healing) 15 mg; Hypericum perforatum 3X (Relieves pain) 8 mg; Mercurius solubilis 8X (Reduces swelling) 15 mg; Millefolium 3X (Treats minor bleeding) 15 mg; Symphytum officinale 8X (Relieves joint pain) 24 mg. Inactive ingredients: Lactose, Magnesium stearate.

Aaah, this is a lot clearer. the 75 mg 4X of belladona, for example, is actually 7.5 microgram of it, once you factor the 10 000 dilution. These amounts are minimal.

Edit part deux.

According to wikipedia, on the belladona:
The consumption of two to five berries by children and ten to twenty berries by adults can be lethal.

The berries are about 1 cm in diametre, so to make my life easy, I'll say that 10 grams of belladonna berries are enough to kill a small adult. I'm also going to questimate that the extraction procedure makes belladonna 10 times deadlier, so that 1 gram is enough to kill a small adult.

This means that she would have needed to take about 130 000 pills. I think her stomach would have exploded before that!

[Name Lips]

Actually that's entirely the point of placebo effect Name Lips, it is just "in your head" That's not to say that it doesn't work, but the point is it's not what's in it.

The placebo effect works just as well if it's water, suger pill, or 3000 year old folk remedy. But the placebo doesn't work at all if you know it's not real.

So yeah, it is psychological, but it does work.

I know what you mean, but I still don't like the phrase. When I hear "all in your head" or "its just psychological" it makes me think that not only is the placebo a phony, but that the effects were phony as well. The effects are real, and the improvement in health is real, and the medical condition was real and not imagined.

So yeah I understand the placebo itself does nothing but make the patient somehow "believe" they should be getting better. But when they actually improve I don't feel comfortable saying it was all in their head. The sugar pill might not be what cured them, but the fact that they are cured is quite real.

[The Winslow]

I know what you mean, but I still don't like the phrase. When I hear "all in your head" or "its just psychological" it makes me think that not only is the placebo a phony, but that the effects were phony as well. The effects are real, and the improvement in health is real, and the medical condition was real and not imagined.

That's dismissing psychosomatic effects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosomatic_medicine). Let's keep in mind that our brain is a complex chemical factory.

[Dacke]

First, does anyone know what the heck an mcl is? Second, the X is the dilution - but it's the number of 10 times dilutions done. So a 2X is a 100 fold dilution, and a 6X is a 1 000 000 fold dilution.
Ah, the site I found only listed the names of the contents, not the amounts. So I was thinking that "homeopathic" in a US context might include herbal remedies as well, not just "highly diluted stuff." And "mcL" is a bad way of writing "microliter", or cubic millimeter.