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Ancalagon
12-23-2009, 06:12 PM
Hello

This has nothing to do about China's internal political tentions, dismal environmental record or non-sustainable industrial practices. No, it seems their financial fundamentals are not so solid...

What happens when someone who has 1.4 trillion in US $ reserves starts having trouble?


http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/12/16/f-forbes-china-bubble-economy.html


ECONOMY
Dicey debt
The China bubble
Last Updated: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 | 2:07 PM ET
By Gady Epstein, Forbes.com

China's economy is the envy of the world. As developed nations struggle to eke out a bit of growth and to get unemployment rates out of double digits, Chinese output gallops ahead at an 8 per cent annual rate. This $4.7 trillion US economy, it seems, is the world's dynamo and the prototype for the future.

Take a close look, however, and you may come away thinking China resembles nothing so much as Japan shortly before its stock and property markets melted down two decades ago. A speculative frenzy of borrowing and bidding up is at work. If and when prices crash, there will be hell to pay.

Signs of the times: government bureaucracies funding themselves by foisting debt on state-owned business enterprises; local governments raising capital by selling land at sky-high prices to corporations they own; and a People's Bank of China lavishing liquidity on the entire system in a way that makes Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke look downright stingy.

It's a Ponzi scheme whose head is the central bank, and it can print money," says Victor Shih, a China expert at Northwestern University.

The U.S. government's $7.2 trillion in debt at the end of June represented 50 per cent of gross domestic product. The Chinese government's officially disclosed $840 billion in public debt represents less than 20 per cent of GDP. But the People's Bank of China and the treasury are also on the hook for potentially $1.5 trillion in off-balance-sheet debt owed by cities and provinces and entities they control. They're also implicitly obliged to backstop $1 trillion, both in loans that "policy banks" were directed to issue, even when they made no economic sense, and nonperforming loans that the government removed from the books of state-owned commercial banks over the past decade.

Add it up and the national government is responsible for debt equal to over 70 per cent of 2009 GDP. That doesn't count any loans generated this year that might go sour amid a 30 per cent increase in debt balances nationwide. (The U.S. government, in addition to its direct debt equal to 50 per cent of GDP, is responsible for cosigning of mortgage borrowers' obligations equal to another 18 per cent of GDP.)

Like the U.S. housing industry a few years ago, China's big developers are highly leveraged and dependent on low interest rates and rising prices. Municipal governments are knee-deep in this asset swamp. They use land sales as a means of funding themselves.

As fast as China is growing and urbanizing, its cities are churning out more office towers and luxury malls than can be leased for years to come. Tianjin, a gritty metropolis not far from Beijing, will soon have more prime office space than will be filled in a quarter-century at the current absorption rate. Shunyi County, in the capital's suburbs, sold a residential plot last month for $400 per square foot, a new national record. The bidders were mostly state-owned companies and the winner none other than a developer owned by Shunyi County. Where the developer came up with the money for the purchase is unclear, but the county will nevertheless book $740 million as revenue from the sale.

'A pure debt game'

China's mercantilist trade policy is another contributor to its asset bubble. By artificially depressing the value of its currency and making it difficult for locals to invest abroad, China has forced an artificially large amount of capital to chase after domestic investments, inflating property and stock prices. It's the same scenario China pursued in late 2007, before its stock market lost two-thirds of its value, but that era was characterized by monetary restraint compared with today.

"It's a pure debt game," says Andy Xie, an economist who advises private investors and sees the current bubble as "much worse than previous ones."

In late November China's ruling Politburo declared that the nation's monetary and fiscal promiscuity will continue into 2010. The markets, predictably, were overjoyed. Economists who see parallels to the Russian and Brazilian financial crises a dozen years ago are less sanguine.

"The more debt that's on the balance sheets, whether you see it or not, the more vulnerable borrowing entities become to shocks," warns Michael Pettis, a finance professor at Peking University and expert on China's economy and sovereign debt.

China naysayers have been wrong before. Gordon Chang, author of the 2001 book The Coming Collapse of China, has warned — wrongly, so far — that doom lies around the corner. Cushioning China's economy is its high growth rate, an estimated $260 billion (but declining) annual current account surplus and, at $2.3 trillion, the world's biggest foreign exchange reserve.

Bubbles, it bears noting, tend to surprise many observers with their longevity. (A Forbes cover story warned six years too early that the U.S. housing bubble threatened to tank the economy.) But when bubbles do eventually blow, it's usually with a bang.

In the first nine years of this decade China added an average of $1.50 in new credit to the economy to produce each incremental dollar of output. With so much money chasing domestic investments, that ratio has jumped to $7 of fresh credit for each additional dollar of GDP this year, estimates Pivot Capital Management, a Monaco hedge fund.
Risk of crisis grows

All told, China's ratio of outstanding credit (government and private) to annual GDP stands at 160 per cent and could approach 200 per cent by 2011, which would be similar to the 1991 level in Japan, just as that nation began tottering off the economic precipice. (U.S. ratio: 240 per cent.) "All this points to [the idea] that credit in China is not going to be able to grow much longer without risking a crisis," Pivot concludes.

Assuming China's reckoning does arrive some day, it's impossible to say whether it might presage Japan-style deflation, Russian-style hyperinflation or American-style stagnation. For now, private, semiprivate and state-owned enterprises are getting creative to keep the boom alive. Some cash-starved local governments are believed to be asking companies to prepay 2010 corporate taxes to meet this year's budgets. It's the kind of monkeyshines you might expect in New Jersey or California, not in supposedly cash-rich China.

Related-party transactions are another popular funding source. Hainan Expressway Co. in southern China is a government-owned outfit deep in hock. In the last year it has lent some $40 million to its founding shareholder, the Hainan Department of Transportation, and booked the loan due as an asset on its balance sheet. This classification provides the Hainan Expressway with additional collateral to borrow even more in new construction loans from state-owned financial institutions and increases the risk that it will eventually default, according to Northwestern's Shih.

Western and Hong Kong investors are in on the frenzy, too. Evergrande Real Estate Group, a Guangzhou developer, recently staved off a default on short-term debt by raising $800 million in a Hong Kong initial offering, which bestowed it with a $14 billion market cap. But whom is it kidding? Sixty per cent of its "profit" this year is expected to come from increasing the reported value of its properties, a ploy that is a common source of earnings for Chinese real estate developers.

As is typical in the later stages of property booms, many investors in China appear to have discarded rental yields as a measure of how much a building is worth in favor of greater-fool pricing. In downtown Beijing office towers sold this year for $400 per square foot, despite the fact that many were unleased and many more are under construction. The leading buyers: state-owned enterprises, including banks and insurers.
Warning Signs

Asset flipping can go on only so long. At some point you need paying tenants.

* Developers highly leveraged, dependent on easy credit.
* Government funding via debt and land sales to state-owned corporations, prepayment of corporate taxes.
* Total outstanding debt approaching Japan's precrash level.

The Winslow
12-23-2009, 06:44 PM
No, it seems their financial fundamentals are not so solid...

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5145/owlj.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/owlj.jpg/)

Limper
12-24-2009, 06:21 AM
The big current bubble is in bonds and safty stocks... bond funds have been getting crap loads of money as people are still in panic mode... its driven the yield downward to near pointless.

Safty stocks are run to to the sky as well.

China is so big that any mess they have can be corrected for... I still don't like putting money in that country as they have no "SEC" like organization. India does and is IMO a safer play.

The markets will be flooded with Chinese IPO's for a long time to come and most of them will be painful top those who buy them.

Ancalagon
01-20-2010, 10:26 PM
and now a major investor with a reputation for pinking stinkers (and making money by shorting them) has picked china as the next big bubble:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/08/business/global/08chanos.html

Contrarian Investor Sees Economic Crash in China

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By DAVID BARBOZA
Published: January 7, 2010

SHANGHAI — James S. Chanos built one of the largest fortunes on Wall Street by foreseeing the collapse of Enron and other highflying companies whose stories were too good to be true.

Now Mr. Chanos, a wealthy hedge fund investor, is working to bust the myth of the biggest conglomerate of all: China Inc.

As most of the world bets on China to help lift the global economy out of recession, Mr. Chanos is warning that China’s hyperstimulated economy is headed for a crash, rather than the sustained boom that most economists predict. Its surging real estate sector, buoyed by a flood of speculative capital, looks like “Dubai times 1,000 — or worse,” he frets. He even suspects that Beijing is cooking its books, faking, among other things, its eye-popping growth rates of more than 8 percent.

“Bubbles are best identified by credit excesses, not valuation excesses,” he said in a recent appearance on CNBC. “And there’s no bigger credit excess than in China.” He is planning a speech later this month at the University of Oxford to drive home his point.

As America’s pre-eminent short-seller — he bets big money that companies’ strategies will fail — Mr. Chanos’s narrative runs counter to the prevailing wisdom on China. Most economists and governments expect Chinese growth momentum to continue this year, buoyed by what remains of a $586 billion government stimulus program that began last year, meant to lift exports and consumption among Chinese consumers.

Still, betting against China will not be easy. Because foreigners are restricted from investing in stocks listed inside China, Mr. Chanos has said he is searching for other ways to make his bets, including focusing on construction- and infrastructure-related companies that sell cement, coal, steel and iron ore.

Mr. Chanos, 51, whose hedge fund, Kynikos Associates, based in New York, has $6 billion under management, is hardly the only skeptic on China. But he is certainly the most prominent and vocal.

For all his record of prescience — in addition to predicting Enron’s demise, he also spotted the looming problems of Tyco International, the Boston Market restaurant chain and, more recently, home builders and some of the world’s biggest banks — his detractors say that he knows little or nothing about China or its economy and that his bearish calls should be ignored.

“I find it interesting that people who couldn’t spell China 10 years ago are now experts on China,” said Jim Rogers, who co-founded the Quantum Fund with George Soros and now lives in Singapore. “China is not in a bubble.”

Colleagues acknowledge that Mr. Chanos began studying China’s economy in earnest only last summer and sent out e-mail messages seeking expert opinion.

But he is tagging along with the bears, who see mounting evidence that China’s stimulus package and aggressive bank lending are creating artificial demand, raising the risk of a wave of nonperforming loans.

“In China, he seems to see the excesses, to the third and fourth power, that he’s been tilting against all these decades,” said Jim Grant, a longtime friend and the editor of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer, who is also bearish on China. “He homes in on the excesses of the markets and profits from them. That’s been his stock and trade.”

Mr. Chanos declined to be interviewed, citing his continuing research on China. But he has already been spreading the view that the China miracle is blinding investors to the risk that the country is producing far too much.

“The Chinese,” he warned in an interview in November with Politico.com, “are in danger of producing huge quantities of goods and products that they will be unable to sell.”

In December, he appeared on CNBC to discuss how he had already begun taking short positions, hoping to profit from a China collapse.

In recent months, a growing number of analysts, and some Chinese officials, have also warned that asset bubbles might emerge in China.

The nation’s huge stimulus program and record bank lending, estimated to have doubled last year from 2008, pumped billions of dollars into the economy, reigniting growth.

But many analysts now say that money, along with huge foreign inflows of “speculative capital,” has been funneled into the stock and real estate markets.

A result, they say, has been soaring prices and a resumption of the building boom that was under way in early 2008 — one that Mr. Chanos and others have called wasteful and overdone.

“It’s going to be a bust,” said Gordon G. Chang, whose book, “The Coming Collapse of China” (Random House), warned in 2001 of such a crash.

Friends and colleagues say Mr. Chanos is comfortable betting against the crowd — even if that crowd includes the likes of Warren E. Buffett and Wilbur L. Ross Jr., two other towering figures of the investment world.

A contrarian by nature, Mr. Chanos researches companies, pores over public filings to sift out clues to fraud and deceptive accounting, and then decides whether a stock is overvalued and ready for a fall. He has a staff of 26 in the firm’s offices in New York and London, searching for other China-related information.

“His record is impressive,” said Byron R. Wien, vice chairman of Blackstone Advisory Services. “He’s no fly-by-night charlatan. And I’m bullish on China.”

Mr. Chanos grew up in Milwaukee, one of three sons born to the owners of a chain of dry cleaners. At Yale, he was a pre-med student before switching to economics because of what he described as a passionate interest in the way markets operate.

His guiding philosophy was discovered in a book called “The Contrarian Investor,” according to an account of his life in “The Smartest Guys in the Room,” a book that chronicled Enron’s rise and downfall.

After college, he went to Wall Street, where he worked at a series of brokerage houses before starting his own firm in 1985, out of what he later said was frustration with the way Wall Street brokers promoted stocks.

At Kynikos Associates, he created a firm focused on betting on falling stock prices. His theories are summed up in testimony he gave to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce in 2002, after the Enron debacle. His firm, he said, looks for companies that appear to have overstated earnings, like Enron; were victims of a flawed business plan, like many Internet firms; or have been engaged in “outright fraud.”

That short-sellers are held in low regard by some on Wall Street, as well as Main Street, has long troubled him.

Short-sellers were blamed for intensifying market sell-offs in the fall 2008, before the practice was temporarily banned. Regulators are now trying to decide whether to restrict the practice.

Mr. Chanos often responds to critics of short-selling by pointing to the critical role they played in identifying problems at Enron, Boston Market and other “financial disasters” over the years.

“They are often the ones wearing the white hats when it comes to looking for and identifying the bad guys,” he has said.

Limper
01-21-2010, 06:34 AM
China can change completely any policy they want... tomorrow they could hand out hoes and go back to being rural agrarians.

Given that its a dangerous and volitile place to put your capital and should be approached with caution... extreme caution.

Janos
01-21-2010, 03:35 PM
Betting against China isn't new. Crying to the heavens that China is going to fall when you're already betting against them is just common sense.

Scare investors and you can trigger the situation you're already predicting and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Name Lips
01-21-2010, 04:03 PM
I wonder if they could make "panic selling" punishable by death.

Limper
01-22-2010, 08:16 AM
Betting against China isn't new. Crying to the heavens that China is going to fall when you're already betting against them is just common sense.

Scare investors and you can trigger the situation you're already predicting and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It would be nice if everyone publishing an article had to follow rules of disclosure.

Ancalagon
01-22-2010, 09:14 PM
Disclosure: I have no financial interest in seeing China fail. I'm just opposed to bubbles. The thing that pops them is knowledge, and it's better to pop them early than pop them late.

Ancalagon
03-30-2010, 05:16 PM
more stuff!

http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/jim-jubak/article.aspx?cp-documentid=23629700

Harry
06-08-2010, 09:23 PM
Labour strife rolls across China

Textile workers toiling for pennies say they’ve had enough

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/china/article/820395--labour-strife-rolls-across-china

PINGDINGSHAN, CHINA—Out on the pavement the battle lines were drawn: in an awesome show of force, more than 1,000 uniformed, riot and plainclothes police blocked the factory gate — with a special black-clad unit, armed with clubs, riot shields and a don’t-mess-with-us attitude.

Across the street, close to 3,000 sullen looking workers milled about, cursing.

Nearly 5,500 walked off their jobs at the Pingdingshan Cotton Textile Co. here recently, demanding better pay and working conditions.

By anyone’s measure they had cause: most work for 65 cents per hour.

Suddenly, strikes are surging across China as poorly paid workers — the engine of China’s economic miracle — are demanding a bigger share of the enormous wealth the country is earning from its booming export-driven economy.

The strikes — many not reported inside China on orders from the central government — threaten to cripple an economy that has enjoyed double-digit growth for years.

The government wants to keep a lid on them.

But on one morning last week, workers appeared to be winning.

“They don’t treat us like human beings,” shouted one woman.

“They couldn’t care less if we lived or died,” said another.

A third woman leaned into ever-growing circle of people keen to vent to a visiting journalist. “Today they beat people,” she said. “They beat people in plain daylight! They took away eight workers. The more they resisted — the more they beat them!”

It was mid-morning on Jianshe Rd. in normally peaceful Pingdingshan, about 1,000 kilometres south of Beijing, as workers — mostly women — fumed as the strike entered its 19th day.

The standoff in central China was by no means isolated.

Last week much of the country’s attention focused on a strike at a Japanese-owned Honda factory in southern China — for which Chinese authorities allowed rare and open reporting. Workers there won a 24 per cent pay hike.

Authorities also allowed reporting on the Taiwanese-owned Foxconn electronic assembly plant, where a scourge of suicides by workers corralled in regimented factories rocked the nation.

Foxconn responded with a 30 per cent wage increase – and announced a further 70 per cent Monday.

But few in China heard about the clash in Pingdingshan — or more than 15 other strikes that spilled into the streets of China in May.

While it was fine for Chinese media to report on strikes at large, foreign-owned factories — the government suppressed news about worker actions at other, Chinese-owned and operated plants. It didn’t want the contagion to spread to other pools of cheap labour across China.

And few are as cheap as those in Pingdingshan.

While government figures show China’s textile workers earn an average 1,360 yuan per month (about $212), workers here say they earn less than half that — about 660 Chinese yuan (about $103).

Workers say they barely make enough to feed their families.

And many who earn such wages have worked here for more than 20 years.

“Many of us joined when it was a state-owned enterprise,” explained one 21-year veteran. “The wages were low, but the job was guaranteed.”

But in 2006 the factory was privatized. China was changing. Some were getting rich.

But the workers weren’t. On May 14, they decided they’d had enough.

Inspired by a group of angry pensioners who blocked the company’s gates after learning their pension benefits would amount to just $16 per month, other workers seized the moment and walked off production lines.

One evening last week in a private apartment in Pingdingshan, four workers with more than 100 years of experience at the factory told stories of hellish working conditions, a punishing cycle of rotating 2-day shifts, forced overtime, arbitrary fines and workers fainting in 42 C heat only to be forced back to work within the hour.

“Even if you’re sick, you’re not allowed to leave work,” said one woman, who like all workers interviewed for this article asked that her name not be used, out of fear of being punished by her employer or local authorities.

Repeated attempts by the Star to elicit responses from both the company and the government were rebuffed.

“I can’t answer your questions,” Xiao Hongjun of the factory’s publicity department said. “Contact the municipal government.”

At the municipal government a man who would only identify himself as the deputy director of external publicity hung up when the Star sought comment.

A key concern among many women at the factory – who are believed to constitute 80 per cent of the workforce – is the condition of 48-year-old Wu Xiumin, a worker who witnesses say was badly beaten last week, dragged to a police vehicle and driven off

“She is strong, well spoken and a very good writer,” said one co-worker who knows her well. “She has a true sense of justice. She always says, ‘I’m not taking a stand just for myself, but for all my brothers and sisters in this factory.’ ”

Wu was also the object of repeated harassment by factory foremen, workers say. Determined to push her into retirement or force her to leave, workers say she was repeatedly fined.

“Her monthly wage after fines was 270 RMB per month (about $42),” a friend says.

Workers say foremen hand out fines for work violations like, “having a brief conversation with a fellow worker.”

Wu operated three mechanized weaving machines producing large bolts of unbleached cotton. Each machine is 30 metres long.

Workers say they do not know whether the cotton was sold domestically or exported.

“The job just keeps you running and running,” said one worker.

Everyone said the air inside the factory is heavy with cotton fibres and in summer months the factory feels like a sauna.

“They have air conditioning,” explained one. “But instead — even in summer months — they use ventilation machines to heat the air to make it easier for the machines to reach their required temperatures easily and more cheaply.”

One male worker with 25 years experience said he saw one disabled former worker dragged off during worker protests.

“ ‘Old Tang,’ said the man, “His real name is Xu Zhenqiang — they pulled him right out of his three-wheeled mechanized vehicle and drove him off.”

By law, Chinese workers are supposed to get 15 days of vacation per year.

But workers say that’s routinely denied.

Those interviewed said they had never been allowed off more than the annual week of Chinese New Year.

Workers also claimed that at the work action’s peak, authorities deployed 4,000 police.

Such displays of state muscle aimed at intimidating workers back to work might be unheard of in the West — but not here.

“It’s certainly not unusual,” says Geoffrey Crothall of the Hong Kong-based China Labour Bulletin.

“Striking isn’t illegal in China: there is no law that actually prohibits it. But there isn’t an actual ‘right to strike’ either,” he adds. “Legally, it’s a grey area.”

Labour unions, too, don’t play the same role as in Western countries, he stresses. At Chinese enterprises, they are essentially a tool of management.

“They will rarely, if ever, stand four-square with workers,” he notes.

Crothall, whose organization tracks labour issues inside China, confirms that China is experiencing a noticeable surge in strikes.

“Coming out of the economic downturn last year, workers were probably more willing to bide their time and not rock the boat,” he observes. “But now they’re seeing the economy booming again and workers who are paid low wages are asking questions and demanding better compensation.”

The conventional wisdom arising from the Honda and Foxconn events has been that a new, younger generation of workers are more demanding than previous ones — and they know how to use the Internet and mobile technology to advantage.

“But Pingdingshan shows that older, more established workers are demanding more too,” says Crothall.

And they’ve clearly been inspired by the young.

When news of the young Honda workers’ victory reached Pingdingshan, older workers taped newspaper accounts of it to the factory’s gates.

The message was clear: if Honda’s workers could win, why shouldn’t they?

As the week progressed, however, employees reported that some strikers were being lured back to work with cash.

Workers say their foremen told them: return to work by Monday night — or lose your jobs.

Name Lips
06-08-2010, 11:46 PM
Mao rose to power by promising that the working class would finally be treated with respect. That's how he inspired poor rural people to join his army, and it's also what he considered the moral justification for all of the things he did.

Communism has abandoned the workers. That means it's even less "communism" than it was when it began.

Ancalagon
06-09-2010, 06:48 AM
I'm going to paraphrase something I read recently (don't remember the link, sorry):

In a broader context, factories are having a harder time finding/retaining workers. Their numbers aren't growing anymore due to demography (and I guess the great migration has sputtered out?), and they are becoming more educated and more aware of their rights. More and more, factories are having to pay more and/or treat their workers better.

Another factor is that the Chinese currency has a lot of pressure on it to rise in value.

China has been a deflationary influence on the world, by providing massive amounts of cheap goods. This period may be over.

Limper
06-09-2010, 07:02 AM
Thats what sputtered the outsourcing to India.

Not a bad thing for either side of the equation.