what can you expect from a high school graduate?

[tleilaxu]

meaning...

what can you assume someone who has a high school diploma knows? what can you assume they are capable of doing? what is the difference from the reality of expectation, and what high school says it does?

do we assume a high school graduate has read a shakespeare play? that they can do geometry and arithmatic? that they know how to read? what can you assume a high school graduate knows about national and international history? science? music? etc...

[Name Lips]

Assume nothing.

[Schizm]

Assume that they know how to dress like slobs, text message their little hearts out with improper spelling and grammar, throw more attitude than the rapping thug they idolize, and whine like they've got a pirhanna attached to their nutsack.

[tleilaxu]

well those are responses i expected, but i assume a lot of 18 year-olds are employed so i'm looking for something more i guess...

[Hatter]

Assume that they know how to dress like slobs, text message their little hearts out with improper spelling and grammar, throw more attitude than the rapping thug they idolize, and whine like they've got a pirhanna attached to their nutsack.

Get off my lawn! :shakefist:

[Schizm]

well those are responses i expected, but i assume a lot of 18 year-olds are employed so i'm looking for something more i guess...

They may be employed, but let's consider exactly where they might be employed. Grumpy old man-ness aside, In terms of academics, you can probably expect an average high school graduate to be able to read. They'll know a few words of another language, and can do basic arithmetic and some very, VERY light algebra.

I would not go so far as to expect basic gramar or spelling skills.

[Droid101]

They may be employed, but let's consider exactly where they might be employed. Grumpy old man-ness aside, In terms of academics, you can probably expect an average high school graduate to be able to read. They'll know a few words of another language, and can do basic arithmetic and some very, VERY light algebra.

I would not go so far as to expect basic gramar or spelling skills.

Also, they'll probably know one or two useful or useless facts having to do with the subject that their funniest/favorite teacher was teaching.

[Brynja]

Depends on the state you live in- exmaine their standards- that is the bare minimum a student SHOULD be able to do

[Brynja]

For my part in NJ i also echo english standards in my writing assignments. They dont do it guys but they are corrected- DAILY on it.

[Janos]

California is pretty middle of the road education-wise, and you can still expect adequate grammar and spelling despite the prevalence of text messaging. So I’d say they can read, comprehend, and write well enough for the average entry level office job. I’ve hired quite a few 19-21 year olds (just out of high school kids) for various companies over the years for full-time positions.

Those are the useable ones, as opposed to the total wastes, but they’re not the best of the best either, who usually go straight into college.

Typically their math skills do consist of basic arithmetic, and they have just enough exposure to history and literature to not be considered totally ignorant without really being able to hold a discussion on it. They also have solid computer skills and can type around 35 wpm.

Their education isn’t usually that bad, but they’re under prepared to join the workforce or take on responsibility. They also lack any understanding of every day numbers (statistics, practical math, basic finance). I think the biggest failing is the lack of anything resembling life skills.

[Schizm]

For my part in NJ i also echo english standards in my writing assignments. They dont do it guys but they are corrected- DAILY on it.

Oh, I fully expect that they don't do it - and that their teachers are usually giving the proper instruction. I mostly just remember what idiots the people around me in high school actually were...

[bunny]

Their education isn’t usually that bad, but they’re under prepared to join the workforce or take on responsibility. They also lack any understanding of useful application of every day numbers (statistics, practical math, basic finance). I think the biggest failing is the lack of anything resembling life skills.

A lot of students in my schools (myself included) had jobs starting in Grade 10 (after school/summer jobs). These students tended to be more prepared for the workplace after graduation and could be at least relied upon to get up for work on time every day. Both high schools I attended also had career and personal planning courses as part of the required curriculum. These courses taught students to apply for post secondary education or trade schools, figure out viable career options, develop long term goals, write a cheque, balance a budget, search for a place to live, start a savings plan, etc. It was a pretty useful course for those who needed it.

[Name Lips]

Well, to be fair, his question was what he could expect every high school student to know. What can he automatically assume that they will have in their skillset, simply by virtue of the fact that they are the proud earners of a High School Diploma.

Somebody who carelessly slipped through high school, earning Ds, taking nothing seriously, and having a shitty attitude about life technically falls into that category.

Whereas some dropouts are decent people with a good work ethic.

But strictly speaking, having a high school diploma doesn't impress me. It doesn't make me think you know how to work hard and achieve goals. It doesn't make me think you have any valuable skills. It says absolutely nothing about that individual as a person.

So if you're hiring, don't hire people "because they have a high school diploma." Hire them because you judge them to be good people with good attitudes who understand what you're expecting them to do and seem willing to do it.

[shiningbrow]

I don't know that you can generalize. High schools vary so much even in the same county and students graduating from the same school can graduate with a wide variety of different skill and knowledge levels.

My cousin, who is functionally illiterate (seriously, couldn't spell the name of the town in which he lived) and I graduated from the same school. I went on to complete college and graduate school. He's a good guy, knows how to drive heavy equipment and earns a decent living, but his mastery of those skills had nothing to do with his formal education. So, I'm wondering why you ask.

[tleilaxu]

Well, to be fair, his question was what he could expect every high school student to know.

don't let my incapacities hinder the conversation. :)

[Harry]

what can you assume someone who has a high school diploma knows? what can you assume they are capable of doing? what is the difference from the reality of expectation, and what high school says it does?...

Are you talking about today's high school graduates, or graduates from any era? If you are talking about today's, the Schizm has it pretty close to right...

Assume that they know how to dress like slobs, text message their little hearts out with improper spelling and grammar, throw more attitude than the rapping thug they idolize, and whine like they've got a pirhanna attached to their nutsack.

I've also found that graduates from schools of today have been coddled to a degree that would make my grandparents apoplectic. I've noticed for about five or six years that "kids" between the ages of 15 and 25 applying to my store very often are looking for their very first job. They've lived on their parents paychecks well into their 20s, and usually still live at home and rely on their parents for rides. This blows my mind, especially since I see friends doing it with their kids. I have an endless stream of teens and 20-somethings coming to work for me who've all been raised to thinks they are all perfect little princes and princesses. I swear, I thought my generation had it easy but man, we all had long had jobs well before we graduated. I drew my first paycheck at 13 and no one batted an eye.

Kids of today have me ready to see the draft reinstated.

[Lady_Acoma]

Yeah, I'm back with the people willing to work. I worked from 9th grade on and was happy to do it. Plenty of my friends were in the same (if not as happy about it as I was since I was just glad to not be sick and stuck at home) boat and worked hard. They went on for the most part to college and or regular full time employment with some potential for advancement.

I also worked with people that had jobs through high school who took those just about as seriously as they did school. They were the shitty employees that piss you off and are just asking to be fired. When they got their degrees it didn't change a damn thing.

[Janos]

A lot of students in my schools (myself included) had jobs starting in Grade 10 (after school/summer jobs). These students tended to be more prepared for the workplace after graduation and could be at least relied upon to get up for work on time every day.

Any of the people we interviewed had to have jobs before graduating high school. But most of those jobs were part-time affairs or small shop operations that tended to accomodate the student, rather than expect stricter behaviors. Lots of restaurant hosts, burger flippers, mall workers, etc. They weren't bad employees, but they frequently had attendance, reliability, or lack of attention areas where they need to improve.

These courses taught students to apply for post secondary education or trade schools, figure out viable career options, develop long term goals, write a cheque, balance a budget, search for a place to live, start a savings plan, etc. It was a pretty useful course for those who needed it.

I wish we had more of that. Our career centers focus on college prep and some job hunting, but neither is all that helpful or practical really. They tend to reflect a stark approach to continuing education and not really focus on what works or realistic goals with the situation at hand (encouraging applications to expensive 4 year university programs across the country for medicore students, rather than a very good community college a block away).

So if you're hiring, don't hire people "because they have a high school diploma." Hire them because you judge them to be good people with good attitudes who understand what you're expecting them to do and seem willing to do it.

A high school diploma does show ability to follow-through, follow the rules, and dedicate yourself to something.

There are a lot of good people who make terrible employees because they aren't consistent or reliable. Not being able to finish High School (or at least get a G.E.D.) is one of the first signs that they may not be serious or dedicated to something more than their short-term future.

Aside from that, you have much better odds of getting basic skills from an employee with a high school diploma (or G.E.D.) than one without it. While it's not a guarantee, those with a high school diploma are significantly more likely to have the necessary skills to succeed.

Businesses should hire based on their needs, but most businesses are far better off hiring high school graduates with the right attitude than hiring those who didn't graduate with the right attitude.

[doc]

Putting generalities on every High School grad is so wrong, their like every other group there's some that have their head on straight and the rest have up their butt

[Enk]

After we get done hashing this one out, I'd be interested in seeing a parallel discussion on college graduates.

[Lady_Acoma]

I expect my goddamn fries to be hot mother fuckers! :shakefist:

[tleilaxu]

just gotta say what with the preponderance of negative stereotypes, teenagers are really at a disadvantage for being entrusted with any non-menial task.

[Ancalagon]

I say there is too high a variance to really have *any* expectations.

[Brynja]

just gotta say what with the preponderance of negative stereotypes, teenagers are really at a disadvantage for being entrusted with any non-menial task.

Honestly there are only a handful I trust with anything at all. But then i work with a population I wouldnt trust with much.

[Pigs in Space]

Surely, if worst comes to worst, then you can expect they will know how to start up a meth lab for you in under 5 minutes, and shoot people.

So... that could be quite the earner.

[Brynja]

Surely, if worst comes to worst, then you can expect they will know how to start up a meth lab for you in under 5 minutes, and shoot people.

So... that could be quite the earner.

I have had students offer to murder people for me, and mean it.

[Pigs in Space]

I have had students offer to murder people for me, and mean it.

You're a walking advertisement for emigrating to the US. :)

[Hatter]

You're a walking advertisement for emigrating to the US. :)

I know, look how helpful and considerate our youth are!