I Almost Beat Someone Tonight

[Stup]

I've got to get up early tomorrow, but I need to write about this before I get to bed. I need to tell someone, because if I don't it's just going to sit in my head and circle and circle.

I'm seeing a girl right now who has a very wide variety of friends. Some of her friends are not so saintly as others.

Today she spent time with a friend of hers, Bill. I've never met Bill before. They drove down to San Francisco and sold clothes to consignment outlets. Then they hung out at his apartment, and had some wine.

My girlfriend does not always make the best decisions, but she has been friends with Bill for a long time and trusted him.

Bill started making advances on her. She rebuked him, and he got angry.

My girlfriend called me up and wanted me to pick her up. Bill refused to give directions. I could hear him in the background saying bad things.

My girlfriend knew the general directions, if not the street names, and told me she would wait outside. It is freezing tonight, so I knew this was serious.

She called me up a minute later when I was on the road to give me more explicit directions. I talked with Bill, and he sounded drunk and again refused to give me directions. Again I talked with Megan, and I could hear Bill coming onto her in the background.

I have never gotten so angry.

It took me about 25 minutes to get there, and the whole time my jaw was clenched and my heart was beating, not fast, but strong, and I was ready to do whatever was needed.

I'm going to swear here, which is a very non-Stup thing to do, but the situation calls for it. I was honestly scared shitless that he was going to try and rape her.

And that made me angry. Really, really angry. Jesus, it still does. I've never felt that much adrenaline pump through my system.

I got to the street, and my girlfriend was waiting outside, and I picked her up and I stayed there, parked, and I wanted Bill to walk outside or something so I could get out there and just, I don't know, cream him or whatever.

My girlfriend told me he had started acting really weird, and was trying to get her to stay the night, and that she had left right after she'd talked to me.

We were parked, and I was sitting, but my legs were quivering with adrenaline. It was weird. I couldn't sit still. I was kind of afraid to drive in that condition.

We sat and talked for about ten minutes, and I slowly calmed down. But I asked my girlfriend if she wanted me to go in and talk with Bill, and I've got to admit, I really did want to, but he was her friend and it was her decision. She just wanted to go home.

I brought her home, and we had some tea, and we talked about the situation. I told her my philosophy- that in any relationship, each person wants something out of it, and these could be very different things, but you can only be responsible for your side of the equation. But I also told her that she's got to not be afraid of telling people, even her friends, "no" when the situation is uncomfortable.

I also found out Bill is in AA, but had been drinking that night.

I got Bill's phone number.

On the drive to my house, I parked, and called him.

His voice mail picked up.

I left a message. I told him that it was me. And I told him that I knew things had gotten out of hand. And I knew he was in the program. And I knew mistakes got made. And I told him that I thought he should stay in the program, and think about tonight.

And that was it.

God, all I wanted to do was yell at him and tell him how fucked up it was to do what he had done, and that if he ever even approached my girlfriend again I would beat him, I would beat the living shit out of him.

But that's not the way.

All we can do in life is love each other. And we have to love each other even for the mistakes we make.

But it's hard.

I still want to fight.

I still want to knock on the doors in that neighborhood and find where he lives and just kick him in the chest and make him feel powerless and like a little shit, because that's how he acted tonight.

But that is not the way.

That is not the way.

Alright.

I think I can sleep now.

Sorry for the rant. It was a night and a half.

[Dr. Paragon]

You did the right thing. I understand the "call for suplimentary education
through pugilation". But sometimes the frontal lobes have to be the boss.
No matter how tempting the immediate reward may be.

[shiningbrow]

You did the right thing. You should feel content that you exercised such self control. If you feel angry, go running or swimming. Scrub floors or some thing physical to work off the frustration, but stay away from Bill. He's got some pretty serious issues to work out. Give him a wide berth.

[Freedom Canadian]

I admire your restraint, Stup. Right on ! :win:

[Schizm]

Really good job holding on to your temper, man. It is always the most difficult thing to deal with, when someone starts messing aroused with the people you care for.

[Lady_Acoma]

Thanks for sharing Stup, I think that maybe it was good for all of us that you did.

Like everyone else said it was the right thing. And while I don't even know your girlfriend I kinda want to kick Bill's ass too. But maybe your restraint will kick in the logic in his head that violence often won't. Hopefully he will go back to the program. Sometimes people just need a chance. Honestly they are certainly still the assholes who made bad choices. Even when you are deep in your addictions or diseased state you still have the right to choose. So I am honestly not saying forgive and forget, I'm not good at that. But I am saying thanks for giving someone the chance to make better choices in the future with the example of someone who already did.

[Pigs in Space]

You did the right thing - ultimately violence only makes the world a worse place.

[Dacke]

Good man.

Also, I find the combination of PiS's post and avatar to be hilariously ironic.

[Freedom Canadian]

Also, I find the combination of PiS's post and avatar to be hilariously ironic.

Let's not assume that PiS is the man in that picture.

[Cat's Paw Nebula]

Stup, you're a good man, and the world needs more people like you in it. You did the right thing.

[Old Fart]

Stup - let me add to the general chorus of "you did the right thing."

You know what good beating the shite out of an addict does? None whatsoever. Consequences mean something to people who can actually control their behavior.

But making the decision to react after the guy is not a threat with compassion and understanding is its own reward. Even if you don't believe in a higher power. karma, etc. - you know what you did, and it matters, in many ways. Not the least in which is, should the guy ever force you to perceive him as an active threat again, you can act with a clean conscience.

[Pigs in Space]

Good man.

Also, I find the combination of PiS's post and avatar to be hilariously ironic.

The avatar is there just for fun. You know, like soccer hooliganism.

[ROGAN GOSH]

You showed restraint......Pussy!

It's not about getting in a fight with a recovering alky.

This shit head put your girl friend in an extremely awful position.
Betraying trust, causing her to fear for her physical being and trying to prevent her from going to a place that she feels safe and secure.
This guy was going out of control and no amount of past history she had with him can prevent a horrific situation. (Look up rape facts and statistics).

This guy doesn't need you to fight him. YOU NEED TO KNOCK THIS GUY DOWN AND PUNISH HIM!!!

No not a nicey nice thing to do but a life lesson this man needs.

I'll let no person (if I can help it) betray and cause fear in the woman I love!!! No fucking way!

Put your "I'm better than that" crap away and show up one night (soon) and educate him on the importance treating the woman you care about with the utmost respect!

Recover your ball-sack and do it!

[Name Lips]

I don't imagine, from what I remember of Stup, him being a very physical or violent person, ROGAN. He's a good guy, and I think he made the right decision, but at least 50% of it being the right decision is that I see the other guy wiping the floor with him. (the other 50% is being true to his principles.)

[Stup]

The truth is, after thirteen years of martial arts practice, I was ready to do some damage.

But fighting is the easy option, and wouldn't have resolved anything. It honestly does not matter to me what Bill thinks of me. I want him to resolve his own issues, and anything I can do to help that, even though right now I rather hate the guy, I would absolutely do.

I don't consider myself a new-wave global love type of guy, but hurting Bill would not prevent something like this happening again. My girlfriend has already accepted that she lost a friend the other night, and I've been trying to get her to see that it was not her responsibility, that Bill made the choice to end their friendship. I don't have to worry about Bill hurting or threatening her anymore. But I still worry about Bill hurting other people, and hurting himself. If I were in AA, I would offer to drive Bill to meetings, to talk with him about the program, whatever.

Because that's the responsibility we have to each other.

It's not a "better than that" kind of situation. Violence is a quick solution to a quick problem... but it rarely provides peace over the long term.

What we hate in others is what we recognize in ourselves. The hate I still feel for Bill is the violence I felt in myself while driving to his house. I have never been so ready to bring physical violence to another person. And had my girlfriend been in danger, I would have.

But my girlfriend was smart, and left right when things got uncomfortable.

There's a lot of this still going through my head. But I know, for certain, that had I decided to fight Bill, I would have spent a long time trying to forgive myself for it. Unless he had actually harmed her.

I don't know.

I know I made the right decision, though, and I can only hope that Bill will make a better decision now.

[Northcott]

No, I'm pretty fucking sure that Stup would have turned this putz to mush, if he were angry enough to not hold back. That's the real trick right there -- it's a far cry between being angry enough to hit someone, and ruthless enough to go full-out on them. Most people never cross that line, even the ones who end up in a number of brawls. It's a whole new switch to be flipped in your head, and changes your world permanently.

Stup -- you're about the most principled person I know. That you chose not to beat the crap out of this jackass is commendable. You've had a whole bunch of people tell you that, and one act like an asshat in calling you a pussy for showing restraint, so I'll go a different route: You chose not to hurt him, but it wouldn't necessarily have been a bad thing if you did.

The complicity of communication is not limited to verbal discourse. The signals we put out in the world through body language, tone, and actions are just as valid a method of communicating -- the value of actions in particular. It's an old saying, but no less true for it: Talk is cheap. How people choose to act is what really speaks volumes about them.

The problem is not that this guy is an addict. It's not that he was drunk. He spent the day with your girlfriend, and chances are it built up to that unfortunate confrontation that night -- shit like that doesn't just drop out of the blue sky, buddy. It has roots, and I'd be willing to lay good money that he laid at least a few of those roots that day, with the intent of a payoff in the near future.

People do stupid shit when they're drunk, it's true. People also do crazy shit when they think a loved one is under threat. Personally, I'm less likely to hold the latter accountable.

There comes a point in communication where meeting people in a place of consent turns ugly, because they didn't expect somebody as strong, or stronger than they are to meet them on that field. People who choose intimidation, force, or outright violence as their means of expression at a given moment rarely account for the consequences of others agreeing to those terms. They depend on scaring people into submission.

There are a lot of very forgiving, passive people on this board, so my opinion isn't the most popular on these subjects... but brother? I'd have completely understood if you'd hurt this prick. And I mean hurt. Because if you go in merely lashing out and expressing outrage through violence, it just muddies the waters of communication even more. To acheive what I think you really wanted -- to gain some peace of mind by scaring him off of ever attempting something like this again, out of your fear of what he might have done to your girl -- would have required that you go to a place that would have changed you forever. You do not feel a man's bones crack in your hands without some part of you changing. When you beat someone to the point where all bravado disappears, and they cease threatening to kill/harm/rape you and/or your loved ones, you've crossed a line that you never get to go back from. You know to ignore the internet badasses, so I'm telling you this straight up, as someone who's been a friend and acquaintance from years back -- it's probably best for you that you didn't follow through. Not to mention the trauma it would have dumped on your girlfriend, for so many different reasons.

You made the noble choice, man. You always do. :) If he crosses the line again, proves himself a threat, and you decide to be less noble in the interest of providing safety for you and yours? Don't be too hard on yourself. Just keep an eye on your limits, but above all, do what it takes to stay safe. If that includes some change, then so be it.

[Northcott]

There's a lot of this still going through my head. But I know, for certain, that had I decided to fight Bill, I would have spent a long time trying to forgive myself for it. Unless he had actually harmed her.

I don't know.


Bro, there is nothing... NOTHING in this world that feels lower than someone you love coming to harm. If he'd harmed her, and you'd broken him, I'd hope you'd show at least as much forgiveness and compassion for yourself as you're willing to extend to this fellow.

[Harry]

A good beating is a very educational thing. Done right, the recipient learns an important lesson about life and with any luck never forgets that lesson.

I for one hope to never forget that it's a bad idea to flip off a drunken Marine, and that it's an equally poor decision to call any biker named Rebel a jackass, even if you say it under your breath.

[Northcott]

Whoa. Dude... really? You made those mistakes?

You live large, Harry.

[Harry]

The encounter with the drunken Marine was in my freshman year of college. The encounter with the biker named Rebel, a couple of years later, when I was maybe 21 or so. What's even better about the biker named Rebel is that he was a bouncer at a punk rock club as well, and acting in that capacity, when he took me outside and began beating my head against the curb whilst calling for someone to call the police.

Yep. I learned those lessons well.

[Ergeheilalt]

The encounter with the drunken Marine was in my freshman year of college. The encounter with the biker named Rebel, a couple of years later, when I was maybe 21 or so. What's even better about the biker named Rebel is that he was a bouncer at a punk rock club as well, and acting in that capacity, when he took me outside and began beating my head against the curb whilst calling for someone to call the police.

Yep. I learned those lessons well.

:boggle:

Dayum.

[Northcott]

The encounter with the drunken Marine was in my freshman year of college. The encounter with the biker named Rebel, a couple of years later, when I was maybe 21 or so. What's even better about the biker named Rebel is that he was a bouncer at a punk rock club as well, and acting in that capacity, when he took me outside and began beating my head against the curb whilst calling for someone to call the police.

Yep. I learned those lessons well.

Well, that got me to whistle out loud. Man, those are some epic lessons. Glad you came through them.

[Stup]

I missed you, Northcott!

My girlfriend and I have had a series of talks and such about the night, and we both feel much better and stronger for it. Thanks for all the support and comments, folks.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

This guy sounds like a real sleazebag. Sorry, but just being in AA doesn't excuse being an absolute dickhead and breaking one of the oldest codes of men. You acted pretty levelheaded, and kudos for that. And you're right, things could have indeed gotten out of hand.

But never forget that this guy doesn't respect you, Stup. Any future dealings with him, even if he claims to be clean and sober, should be colored by that.

[Droid101]

But never forget that this guy doesn't respect you, Stup. Any future dealings with him, even if he claims to be clean and sober, should be colored by that.

Hopefully (and from the sound of Stup's later posts), there won't be any future dealings with him.

People like that should have all connections to other folks slowly severed until they die or fix themselves.

[Glass]

This guy sounds like a real sleazebag. Sorry, but just being in AA doesn't excuse being an absolute dickhead and breaking one of the oldest codes of men. You acted pretty levelheaded, and kudos for that. And you're right, things could have indeed gotten out of hand.

But never forget that this guy doesn't respect you, Stup. Any future dealings with him, even if he claims to be clean and sober, should be colored by that.

Quoted for truth. All of it. An addiction doesn't excuse being a dick, and you never, never turn your back on someone after you've given them a mercy like this. Because they'll take it as a weakness and think they're safe stabbing you in the back.

[Kyle Voltti]

Well Stup I hope you and the GF never have to go through something like that again. You're a better man then most Charlie Brown.

Though I suspect, as I'm sure many here do, that if certain line had been crossed you'd be makeing a phone call to 911 repoting the severe beating you were about to lay down on the guy who assulted your GF.

[Northcott]

Stup: Right back atcha, man.

Theo and Glass have the right of it, from my point of view. Do keep an eye on your back, and hers. This guy sounded too persistent and unscrupulous for me to think it's cool to rest quiet. Probably won't come to anything, but better safe than sorry.

And I'm still boggling over Harry's tale. Day-am!

[Harry]

...And I'm still boggling over Harry's tale. Day-am!

There's a Part II and III to the "Marine" portion of the two beatings. Maybe I should stick them in another thread instead of continuing the hijack. Or not. They are both tales that should be inscribed in stone over my grave with or without the addendums.

[Lady_Acoma]

Hell even I said before that it's still a bad choice regardless of addictions or mental illness. A choice is a choice, you're the one making it.

[Northcott]

There's a Part II and III to the "Marine" portion of the two beatings. Maybe I should stick them in another thread instead of continuing the hijack. Or not. They are both tales that should be inscribed in stone over my grave with or without the addendums.

I'm curious! Please do enlighten us with a new thread. :)