A poll for the ladies.

[FeatsofClay]

As I dip my toes in the shark infested singles pool I keep hearing reference to and desire for a rape fantasy to be fulfilled.

Do you have a rape fantasy? (even if you wish it to remain a fantasy) Or do I just draw this type of woman?

The poll is anonymous.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

You might get a better response if you distinguish between "rape" and "ravishment"

[FeatsofClay]

You might get a better response if you distinguish between "rape" and "ravishment"

The word "Rape" has been used to me more than once in this regard. I used rape specifically. :)

[Hastur T. Fannon]

On your own head be it...

:construction:

(that's supposed to be me donning a hard hat)

[Iron Jenny Kidd]

No rape fantasies here. It's not something I imagine would be at all fulfilling.

[Varaj]

My understanding is that it is one of the most common fantasies for women. As with most fantasies it is probably best it stays in the fantasy realm.

[Black Angel]

No rape fantasies here. It's not something I imagine would be at all fulfilling.

I concur.

[Northcott]

The word "Rape" has been used to me more than once in this regard. I used rape specifically. :)

You're not alone, man. I've heard it too, and I just don't fucking get it. :confused:

[The Winslow]

From time to time, you have in the news the funnysad story of some guy, sometimes some guys who got arrested while mock-raping a girl who asked him or them to do that.

While amusing, these stories anger me because of the potential "cry wolf" factor.

[Lisa Nadazdy]

No, thank you. I've had enough abuse for one lifetime.

[shellbelle101]

You might get a better response if you distinguish between "rape" and "ravishment"

Makes sense. And that is kinda messed up, actually. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but before this thread I woulda said I had a rape fantasy. But I really, really don't, in retrospect.

I think the term "rape fantasy" is more commonly used, but you're right--it is the wrong term to use. What I have, and what probably most people are thinking of should be "ravishment" fantasy.

I guess you could have rape play, where you pretend you don't know your sig other and are assaulted by them after you leave the bar, gagged, tied up, taken somewhere and used. But that is not hot to me at all. And not initially what I thought of when I read the poll title.

I thought of playfights and maybe flinging someone onto the bed, or saying, "not tonight," with a twinkle in your eye, ripping clothing...at most violent pushing someone away, or spanking them for "disobeying."

The difference between ravishing and rape (possibly) from Robin Hood Prince of Thieves:

ravishing--sex the Sheriff of Nottingham was having with the chambermaid types...
"Did I say you could cover up!"
"You...10 o'clock...You, 10:45...and bring a friend."

rape--trying to impregnate Maid Marion

I guess you could argue that he was raping those girls, but the way it was presented was not overly offensive to me (perhaps because they weren't crying and begging).

I can't think of other examples from movies, but generally the ravishing is occurring when the woman doesn't think she should, rather than the woman doesn't want to. When she's trying to deny her sexual feelings cause it's improper, or cheating, or in the midst of an argument.

You know, I highly doubt women have a fantasy of being ravished or raped by a man they are not attracted to. And from years of reading romance novels, ravishing is pretty typical in any romance novel--especially ones involving pirates. Mmmm, pirates. Ravishing was was always less about the man just taking what he wants and more about the woman's fear of letting herself go. A hunky lecherous pirate is not going to get a sweet naive virgin to drop the petticoat cause she's so hot for him...there has to be something forcing her to make a choice--either you take it off or your daddy walks the plank. There are rape scenes in romance novels--they are disturbing. And there are always clear lines between what is a rape scene and what is ravaging.

Anyways, there's the whole, "you can't rape the willing," factor --knowing that allowing your partner to overpower you, for your turn-on, is pleasing you should take the rape right out of it turning it into ravishing, right? I don't know.

Then there's stuff like fighting or violence being sexy or used as foreplay: see War of the Roses, A History Of Violence--for the second sex scene, or Mr. and Mrs. Smith. But still, that's not rape.

Weird. After this big long fatty post I still don't know what the heck I woulda ticked. It needed an additional option. Either that, or we just needa change the common vernacular from rape fantasy to ravish fantasy.

Ravish. I check the "ravishing" box.
I have a burning desire to be ravished, pushed up against the wall--
ooh I forgot about that scene on the pole in Sliver.



I'll be in my bunk.

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

They weren't telling you what they wanted, they were telling you the only circumstance in which you'd be having sex with them. :D

[Keeper of Secrets]

Is this poll open to Edena?

Just askin'

[Northcott]

You know, I highly doubt women have a fantasy of being ravished or raped by a man they are not attracted to.

I once heard a female author -- can't remember who, now -- phrase it as something akin to: "Every woman dreams of being raped by a man she's attracted to, at the moment and location of her choice, and in the manner she wants."

I first heard of this kind of fantasy years ago, and it still plays with my head. In thinking about it since then, I've only been able to come up with the idea of safety. A control issue. Taking something that's horrible and traumatic, and turning it into something they control, with somebody they're attracted to, to transform it into something erotic. A way of gaining power, of sorts, through submission.

I still don't "get" it on a gut level, but at least in that way I can rationalize it.


...

...On that note, perhaps that's why Clay and I have had the idea floated around us. From what I recall, he's very much into the martial arts scene. I have been in the past, plus I look somewhat thuggish without being entirely fugly. Perhaps it's a combination of projecting a sense of safety and being trustworthy, blended with that image of violent potential.

I dunno. I'm getting a bit queasy thinking about this. I think I'll stop for now.

[FeatsofClay]

I dunno. I'm getting a bit queasy thinking about this. I think I'll stop for now.


Bingo. "Ravish me" would set my overwrought heart and tiny, little penis ablaze. "Rape me" makes me uncomfortable around her. This is why I specifically went with the word rape.

I get a lot of "Well, I can tell you" and "Since it is you I will say" and all I can think is "I am your waiter, not your lawyer"

I have no idea if these people see me as a freak or as a trustable. Really messes with the old self-view.

[Keeper of Secrets]

"Rape me" might get me to get my partner to seek therapy. If I were dating someone there is no way I would get involved with this in this current day and age.





Though, as an interesting side note, I discovered in law school, it is a legal impossibility for one spouse to rape another in many jurisdictions.

[Varaj]

Too interesting articles that touch on rape fantasies.
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-19950501-000028&page=1
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-1268.html

The general consensus is they very common, relatively healthy and provide exactly what Northcott suggests; a way to cope with something very bad.
Actually acting on the fantasy starts to move into the unhealthy range. :)

[Edena_of_Neith]

Is this poll open to Edena?

Just askin'

I can't believe that, after 9 years, the Pirate Incident keeps getting mentioned. But it does.

Just remember that there are no pirates in the Sea of Fallen Stars anymore. Not a one. None. Period! Gone!
Edena did something with them all. What, is not known ... except to Edena himself. And Edena isn't telling, either.

As for Real Life Rape, it is an act of hatred. It is not about sex or sexuality, but about hurting someone. It takes a very sick man to commit an act of rape.
Ravishment? That's a complicated affair. I refuse to make any calls on that ... except that if the woman cries rape, you are history.
Sexual games involving 'ravishment' where both sides consent? Of course. Anything that is pleasurable to those involved. People have a right to what pleases them.

[Keeper of Secrets]

Well said, Mr. Neith!

[Janos]

I've run into women with that particular fetish on occasion. Thankfully it has generally seemed to be the healthy mental type of fetish and not the dark, brutal reality type.

[Ancalagon]

I really like the ravishing vs rape distinction that has been established here.

Ravish I can do, although it isn't the easiest for me. A "play-rape" I can't at all. I need really clear signals from a woman so I can go ahead, otherwise I'm stay away. I guess it's sort of a "mental backlash" from my kinks, which are very dark at times - consent is absolutely sacrosanct, and if it isn't clear and reaffirmed, I just get freaked out.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

I'd suggest that no-one has a rape fantasy. The act of fantasising implies a degree of consent - if you weren't, one some level, consenting to what was "happening" you wouldn't be thinking about it

[BOZ]

i could imagine that someone with some extremely serious issues could have an actual "fantasy" of being raped - being used up and tossed away because they feel worthless already. but that would be less of a "fantasy" of something one would enjoy, as a punishment a person under a delusion thinks they deserve.

that's about the only way i could see a person "wanting" to be raped, and i hope there can't be a whole lot of people with that much self-hatred out there.

[Varaj]

i could imagine that someone with some extremely serious issues could have an actual "fantasy" of being raped - being used up and tossed away because they feel worthless already. but that would be less of a "fantasy" of something one would enjoy, as a punishment a person under a delusion thinks they deserve.

that's about the only way i could see a person "wanting" to be raped, and i hope there can't be a whole lot of people with that much self-hatred out there.

A person with a fantasy of rape doesn't want to be raped. Read the links I provided. :)

[BOZ]

too lazy - i'll have to keep on believing my own crackpot theories. :D

[Droid101]

Though, as an interesting side note, I discovered in law school, it is a legal impossibility for one spouse to rape another in many jurisdictions.

That is sick and wrong.

[Cat of Ulthar]

I clicked option #1, but I guess after reading all this I have to agree with Shellbelle - ravishing is what I fantasize about, not actual rape. Not some ugly stranger grabbing you in a cold wet night, but a handsome roguish type overcoming your resistance and doing what you secretly want him to.

You sure that's not what she means Clay?

[Kyllikki]

You might get a better response if you distinguish between "rape" and "ravishment"

Excellent insight.

Being ravished by a trusted lover is in fact alluring.

Actual rape is something i hope never to experience again, but i know is statistically likely.

[Varaj]

Actual rape is something i hope never to experience again, but i know is statistically likely.

Where do you live that you are statistically likely to be raped more than once?
http://www.rainn.org/statistics/

[FeatsofClay]

You sure that's not what she means Clay?


No clue. :)

I have been approached twice about this by different women. Both gave me the heebie-jeebies.

The word is what threw me. "Take me" or "Ravish me" or "Do what you will" all would have least given me a clue but "Rape me" is not somehting I wanna hear.

[Ancalagon]

No clue. :)

I have been approached twice about this by different women. Both gave me the heebie-jeebies.

The word is what threw me. "Take me" or "Ravish me" or "Do what you will" all would have least given me a clue but "Rape me" is not somehting I wanna hear.

Maybe they have limited vocabulary - then again, that's another clue you shouldn't be with them ;)

"Do what you will" or a variant thereof is incredibly hot. I've only had a woman tell me this once (with a few small limits), even after I checked, reminding her what I was into... Damn that was something :D

[BOZ]

Where do you live that you are statistically likely to be raped more than once?

i wouldn't say that adults who are not in prison are likely to be raped more than once, unless they live in some pretty fucked up places (like, the sort of place i've never been to or probably even seen). it takes a pretty special form of anarchy to have the roving rape-gangs and such which would bump up those statistics.

children, on the other hand, have it differently if they've got a funny uncle or leering next-door neighbor.

[The Winslow]

The word is what threw me. "Take me" or "Ravish me" or "Do what you will" all would have least given me a clue but "Rape me" is not somehting I wanna hear.

You hate Kurt Cobain that much?

[Northcott]

The general consensus is they very common, relatively healthy and provide exactly what Northcott suggests; a way to cope with something very bad.

Woo-hoo! Chalk up one for guessing!

[Northcott]

Thought 2: Abdication of responsibility.

Along with the notion of defusing fear/reclaiming power/etc, there's the possibility that such fantasies could be a guilt release. North American society in particular is extremely judgemental when it comes to sex. Ah-nold can throw people off cliffs and shoot them in the face on a Saturday afternoon movie, and nobody blinks -- but if Janet Jackson's boob shows up for a millisecond it causes a bloody controversy that doesn't die for weeks.

So these fantasies offer a convenient work-around. It's not your fault that the handsome rogue is ignoring half-hearted cries of "No!" and doing all the things you secretly wanted done to you. You tried to fend him off, after all.


Hmmmm... I wonder how often that possible aspect crosses the line? There's great danger of miscommunication in that, after all. And if a woman doesn't entirely grasp the concept of fantasy and play, genuinely being in denial, seeking the experience, enjoying it... but then convincing herself after that it was something far darker? I know this is a particularly dark and controversial corner to poke into: but if the woman in question had a dangerously deep-seated guilt complex regarding sex (due to extremist religious upbringing, for example), there's a considerable trap to fall into here.


I can't help but ponder questions regarding human nature -- but damn, every time I come in this thread my stomach flips a little because I end up pondering very uncomfortable things.

[Atropine Mama]

I used to have fantasies, much closer to ravishment than rape, but certainly in the category you're asking about, Clay. That is, until the real thing happened. Not in a position to deal with anything remotely violent in my sex anymore.

I can't help but ponder questions regarding human nature -- but damn, every time I come in this thread my stomach flips a little because I end up pondering very uncomfortable things.

You're not the only one. I've been asking myself questions loaded with guilt and self-doubt ever since I was assaulted. I've been reassured a thousand times by others that it wasn't my fault, but that nagging self-blame never goes away.

[Northcott]

You're not the only one. I've been asking myself questions loaded with guilt and self-doubt ever since I was assaulted. I've been reassured a thousand times by others that it wasn't my fault, but that nagging self-blame never goes away.

Take this with a grain of salt, Bella, and where I may err and speak poorly, presume that the more gentle of two possible meanings is always the intent.

It seems to me that the only "guilt" you bear was in lack of preparedness -- and that was born from more positive notions of the people around you and a sense of safety. Neither of which is a bad thing, nor are they things that should be discouraged in people. Indeed, I hope you find these things again. This experience, as horrible as it was, will nonetheless leave you with some double-edged gifts that have value along with the pain they bring: you will be more watchful. Your empathy for others who have suffered in such a manner will grow. You will, in ways that may take years to fully realize, be stronger for it.

When I was in the middle of crisis and felt like I was going to fall apart, a dear friend of mine pointed out that he saw me as a strong person. I protested that I didn't see how this could be possible; the weight of everything that was happening was crushing me, and I didn't feel as if I could bear any more. He nodded and pointed out that we never look more strong than when we're bearing a great weight upon our shoulders, and we never feel more weak than we do at that moment of testing our strength. It didn't click then, but the next time I stood under a bar loaded with iron, it made sense.

We grow stronger through testing our strength.


Every person must, in the end, be held accountable for their own actions. To be held accountable for simply having a positive opinion of people is a light thing -- it's no crime. Not even a rudeness. But for the kind of filth who prey upon others? That's another thing entirely. What happened was entirely an act of his choosing, not yours, and you should not be held to account for it -- not in any way, shape, or form. He chose violence. He chose to harm another. He chose to behave in a hateful manner deserving only of scorn and revulsion.

There's always a temptation for a victim to take some measure of blame. It's natural to feel that way. It's a form of regaining power, really: if you take some of the blame onto yourself, you may feel as though there's more control to be had. Right idea, I think, but the wrong target. Control and safety don't come in sharing the blame for a reprehensible act that was not of your chosing. It comes in all the things you do after that; the healing, calming the waters, allowing yourself to feel the love of the people around you. It comes in seeing to your health and well-being, inside and out.

I've no doubt that you'll be fine. :D You've got the strength, you've got the perspective, and you've got plenty of love in your life.

[Ancalagon]

Hmmmm... I wonder how often that possible aspect crosses the line? There's great danger of miscommunication in that, after all. And if a woman doesn't entirely grasp the concept of fantasy and play, genuinely being in denial, seeking the experience, enjoying it... but then convincing herself after that it was something far darker? I know this is a particularly dark and controversial corner to poke into: but if the woman in question had a dangerously deep-seated guilt complex regarding sex (due to extremist religious upbringing, for example), there's a considerable trap to fall into here.


That is a valid concern.

Making things worse is that very strong experience, especially involving pain and pleasure, create a huge endorphine rush. But this natural high creates a down afterward. This down may be mild, or may be quite intense. If you aren't aware of it, it can lead to intense feeling of guilt, regret and loathing after a strong first experience.

Ancalagon