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Atropine Mama
10-20-2009, 10:08 PM
Linkie (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?_r=1&bl)

It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?

NEWARK, Del. — Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother’s fiancé by his side to vouch for him.

Zachary’s offense? Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about recently joining the Cub Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary was suspended and now faces 45 days in the district’s reform school.

“It just seems unfair,” Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.

But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

“Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously,” said Debbie Christie, Zachary’s mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. “He is not some sort of threat to his classmates.”

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

“There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife,” said George Evans, the president of the Christina district’s school board. He defended the decision, but added that the board might adjust the rules when it comes to younger children like Zachary.

Critics contend that zero-tolerance policies like those in the Christina district have led to sharp increases in suspensions and expulsions, often putting children on the streets or in other places where their behavior only worsens, and that the policies undermine the ability of school officials to use common sense in handling minor infractions.

For Delaware, Zachary’s case is especially frustrating because last year state lawmakers tried to make disciplinary rules more flexible by giving local boards authority to, “on a case-by-case basis, modify the terms of the expulsion.”

The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.

In Zachary’s case, the state’s new law did not help because it mentions only expulsion and does not explicitly address suspensions. A revised law is being drafted to include suspensions.

“We didn’t want our son becoming the poster child for this,” Ms. Christie said, “but this is out of control.”

In a letter to the district’s disciplinary committee, State Representative Teresa L. Schooley, Democrat of Newark, wrote, “I am asking each of you to consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child.”

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

“The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Other school districts are also trying to address problems they say have stemmed in part from overly strict zero-tolerance policies.

In Baltimore, around 10,000 students, about 12 percent of the city’s enrollment, were suspended during the 2006-7 school year, mostly for disruption and insubordination, according to a report by the Open Society Institute-Baltimore. School officials there are rewriting the disciplinary code, to route students to counseling rather than suspension.

In Milwaukee, where school officials reported that 40 percent of ninth graders had been suspended at least once in the 2006-7 school year, the superintendent has encouraged teachers not to overreact to student misconduct.

“Something has to change,” said Dodi Herbert, whose 13-year old son, Kyle, was suspended in May and ordered to attend the Christina district’s reform school for 45 days after another student dropped a pocket knife in his lap. School officials declined to comment on the case for reasons of privacy.

Ms. Herbert, who said her son was a straight-A student, has since been home-schooling him instead of sending him to the reform school.

The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project.

Charles P. Ewing, a professor of law and psychology at the University at Buffalo Law School who has written about school safety issues, said he favored a strict zero-tolerance approach.

“There are still serious threats every day in schools,” Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.

In the 2005-6 school year, 86 percent of public schools reported at least one violent crime, theft or other crime, according to the most recent federal survey.

And yet, federal studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another by the Department of Justice show that the rate of school-related homicides and nonfatal violence has fallen over most of the past decade.

Educational experts say the decline is less a result of zero-tolerance policies than of other programs like peer mediation, student support groups and adult mentorships, as well as an overall decrease in all forms of crime.

For Zachary, it is not school violence that has left him reluctant to return to classes.

“I just think the other kids may tease me for being in trouble,” he said, pausing before adding, “but I think the rules are what is wrong, not me.”

Zero-tolerance is zero-thought, zero-culpability bullshit. My boys like to make gun motions with their arms and I've had to come down on them for doing it on the elementary school grounds, it WILL get them suspended. I shit you not.

Hatter
10-20-2009, 10:39 PM
This fear-driven nonsense needs to stop.

Snatch
10-20-2009, 11:57 PM
It does - but I don't see it ending anytime in the future.

Bagpuss
10-21-2009, 05:04 AM
“The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Can I criticise you for being FUCKING STUPID instead then?

The Winslow
10-21-2009, 05:57 AM
This needs to be turned into a cheap B series horror movie. "The Delaware Spork Massacre - based on a true story!" where a nerdy kid, possessed by an evil spork, slaughters his whole school.

Limper
10-21-2009, 06:20 AM
Again I'll state my position that the masses should NOT be allowed a say in their governance. If you allow those who are ruled by fear to have a say they will give up everything for the illusion of safty.

TiQuinn
10-21-2009, 06:54 AM
I hate stories like this. Zero tolerance is perhaps the most pathetic, spineless thing our education system has ever conjured up.

Limper
10-21-2009, 06:56 AM
I hate stories like this. Zero tolerance is perhaps the most pathetic, spineless thing our education system has ever conjured up.

Its number 2 to No Child Left Behind.

Kastil
10-21-2009, 11:45 AM
They reversed the decision, BTW.

In all honesty, when I got my son his Boy Scout Swiss Army Knife, I told him under no circumstances was it to go to school.

Aloysius
10-21-2009, 12:29 PM
A girl suspended a year because there was a knife to cut the birthday cake ? The people responsible of this stupidity are wastes of oxygen. I hope they end up dead in some silly but creative fashion because there was nothing around them to cut the stuff that killed them (such as a rope or what you want). That or that someone gave them a lot of punch in the nose until they ask for pardon.

Name Lips
10-21-2009, 12:41 PM
Maybe I hang out at KT too much... but I've never heard anybody supporting these ridiculous "zero-tolerance" rules. Why do they even exist?

Ancalagon
10-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Maybe I hang out at KT too much... but I've never heard anybody supporting these ridiculous "zero-tolerance" rules. Why do they even exist?

Bureaucratic spinelessness.

Kastil
10-22-2009, 08:55 AM
Anyone find it amusing that they haven't banned pencils yet? Sharp, pointy object that could be used to stab someone.... like a bully.

The Winslow
10-22-2009, 09:24 AM
Anyone find it amusing that they haven't banned pencils yet? Sharp, pointy object that could be used to stab someone.... like a bully.

It does work well. Even pens. You can go through someone's hand with a pen.

Lady_Acoma
10-22-2009, 09:29 AM
I get dirty looks from the staff at the hospital occasionally when I hand out pencils and little bottles of bubbles...though to be frank after the one guy drank the bubbles I wasn't feeling wonderful. The fact that I knew he wouldn't be feeling great later either did amuse me.

Harry
10-22-2009, 10:26 AM
Anyone find it amusing that they haven't banned pencils yet? Sharp, pointy object that could be used to stab someone.... like a bully.

Which actually DOES happen in our schools. I have several little gray dots, buried in my left arm, my hands, my back, all from other students in grade school. Not all malicious attacks, but a couple were.

Kastil
10-22-2009, 10:49 AM
Which actually DOES happen in our schools. I have several little gray dots, buried in my left arm, my hands, my back, all from other students in grade school. Not all malicious attacks, but a couple were.Policies are policies. My son received a one week suspension for being McStabbity-Stab in middle school a while back. Had it been a High School incident, the police would have been called and my son would have been charged with assault.

....and the kid deserved what he got and from what I was told, the kid's parents were none to happy that he was bullying. No more incidents as I don't think the kids want to mess with a 6'2" 225lbs+ kid that will fight back.

Dacke
10-22-2009, 11:02 AM
It does work well. Even pens. You can go through someone's hand with a pen.
How about a magic trick?

Name Lips
10-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Why don't they expel students who know martial arts?

Droid101
10-22-2009, 12:48 PM
Why don't they expel students who know martial arts?

Any child-ninja worth his salt knows to keep his abilities a secret. Come on!

Ninja Parade Slips Through Town Unnoticed Once Again (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/ninja_parade_slips_through_town)

Scutisorex Shrewlord
10-22-2009, 12:50 PM
They reversed the decision, BTW.

In all honesty, when I got my son his Boy Scout Swiss Army Knife, I told him under no circumstances was it to go to school.

And that's smart, but I agree that zero-tolerance is asinine.

Thoth-Amon
10-22-2009, 01:57 PM
While I agree zero-tolerance is asinine I have to wonder how stupid this kid and his parents are.

I'm sure the rules of the school were explained to them, especially in regards to zero tolerance policies. If they chose to ignore these rules they deserve to pay the price for their stupidity.

Freedom Canadian
10-22-2009, 08:34 PM
Maybe I hang out at KT too much... but I've never heard anybody supporting these ridiculous "zero-tolerance" rules. Why do they even exist?

Fear of lawsuits.

Well-deserved fear in many cases.

Cat of Ulthar
10-23-2009, 08:36 AM
While I agree zero-tolerance is asinine I have to wonder how stupid this kid and his parents are.

I'm sure the rules of the school were explained to them, especially in regards to zero tolerance policies. If they chose to ignore these rules they deserve to pay the price for their stupidity.

I don't know...

I mean, when I meet with the coven in the woods, we sometimes have a picnic, so I bring a knife to spread butter. I am sure the British Rail have a zero-tolerance to knives as well, but I don't register "butter knife" in the same semantic register as "crime knife".

I know that if I take my ritual knife, which is bloody sharp, I could be in trouble, but a butter knife? I would have a hard time stabbing the seal on a pudding with that.

ROGAN GOSH
10-23-2009, 12:11 PM
A common sence approach to rules isn't common at all. And using wisdom to guide those who police the rules is non existant.

It's horrifying to read these kind of "zero-tolernce" thread only to know that in the school district my wife works at, zero-tolerence is applauded but rarely inforced.

It's frightening what has happened in some of our schools and even more frightening that "not making our schools look like horrible and out of controll" is far more important that suspending the kid who for the 3rd time this year brought a knife to school to "I just wanted to scare them" kind of crap.

Or the kid caught on the school security camera taking a shit in the hallway of his high school. The same high school and security camera that recorded minors fucking in the same walls some time prior to the shit incedent.

Not to mention a number of employees (vice-princple/ couciler) caught by several students doing the nasty in one of their offices. They paid the kids not to tell and then when the parents asked where did they get the money the kids squeeled. And no one lost their job.

It's shitty and stupid what that school is doing to that boy.
There no such thing any more as common sence and wisdom.
There is only over reacting or turning a blind eye.

DarwinOfMind
10-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Or the kid caught on the school security camera taking a shit in the hallway of his high school. The same high school and security camera that recorded minors fucking in the same walls some time prior to the shit incedent.

I am so glad you said prior

shiningbrow
10-25-2009, 03:14 AM
This needs to be turned into a cheap B series horror movie. "The Delaware Spork Massacre - based on a true story!" where a nerdy kid, possessed by an evil spork, slaughters his whole school.

I believe those are called runcible spoons. I think that Kentucky Fried Chicken (in the days before they became KFC) used to pass out plastic ones with Colonel Sander's head on the top. Now, that's terrifying.

I guess the first grade dropout will turn to a life of crime that will require the taxpayers to support him in prison for the rest of his life. All because he liked being a cub scout. That really makes so much sense. It makes me feel all warm inside.

AZRogue
10-26-2009, 01:47 AM
Zero-tolerance policies are there as a security blanket for bureaucrats who are afraid of the fact that people and their actions are not as simple as they would like. They're complex and require a bit of judgment on the part of those in positions of authority.

A position like that requires the judgment of a person, or several people, to understand each situation effectively, recognize the context, weigh it against past behavior, and then make an informed decision. The thing is, doing that leaves open the possibility that the judge(s) in question fucks up.

People, especially bureaucrats, hate fucking up. So, rather than take such a risk, they come up with an asinine policy that sounds good and apply it across the board, eliminating the need for human judgment altogether. Which is mega, super, horribly scary to me. We need human judgment, even if it can be wrong, because each situation is unique and has its own tapestry of context, history, and intent that need to be judged alongside the action itself.



EDIT: Damn. That post looks constipated. I need to relax. This job has me fucking wound too tight.

Freedom Canadian
10-26-2009, 08:20 AM
People, especially bureaucrats, hate fucking up.

Why is nobody considering the fact that lawsuits are real and that they cost lots of money ?

No, it's always those no-good bureaucrats who do things for no good reason.


Which is mega, super, horribly scary to me. We need human judgment, even if it can be wrong, because each situation is unique and has its own tapestry of context, history, and intent that need to be judged alongside the action itself.

It's scary to me too. But it's a natural reaction to fucked up aspects of our current society.

Tort reform is not a health-care-only consideration.

Varaj
10-26-2009, 08:31 AM
Why is nobody considering the fact that lawsuits are real and that they cost lots of money ?

No, it's always those no-good bureaucrats who do things for no good reason.



I'm not sure zero tolerance reduce lawsuits.

Freedom Canadian
10-26-2009, 10:10 PM
I'm not sure zero tolerance reduce lawsuits.

That is a fair point.

Also, whether or not I believe zero tolerance type policy works in general does not change the fact that I believe that this particular case is fucked up. :)

Atropine Mama
10-26-2009, 10:22 PM
I'll bring my camping spork, you bring the bureaucrats, let's have a bonfire!

The Winslow
10-27-2009, 12:52 PM
This needs to be turned into a cheap B series horror movie. "The Delaware Spork Massacre - based on a true story!" where a nerdy kid, possessed by an evil spork, slaughters his whole school.


Already done, apparently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y