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View Full Version : China finds the (well a) jugular


Ancalagon
08-29-2007, 08:41 PM
I saw this coming... and apparently they've already started spying on the Germans.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/29/news/cyber.php

Chinese see military dependence on computers as weakness

By David Lague
Published: August 29, 2007

BEIJING: Diplomatic tension this week over reported Chinese computer attacks on German government networks comes as security experts warn that China is expanding its capacity to wage cyberwar as part of its rapid military buildup.

U.S. and other foreign military analysts say that Chinese defense planners have identified the heavy dependence on computers of most modern military forces as a potential weakness that could be exploited in a conflict.

They cite articles and reports in Chinese military journals and magazines that suggest attacks aimed at extracting intelligence from enemy computer networks or disrupting communication and signals processing could deliver a decisive military advantage.

"It is part of China's concept of unlimited war," said Philip Yang, an expert on the Chinese military and professor of international relations at the National Taiwan University.

"The idea of unlimited war means employing all possible means including nontraditional or nonconventional means in the aim of winning the war."

While sharp increases in annual defense outlays over much of the past two decades have allowed China to increase the firepower of its conventional and nuclear forces, it has also improved the People's Liberation Army's capacity to exploit information technology, experts say.

"Chinese capabilities in this area have evolved from defending PRC networks from attack to offensive operations against adversary networks," Richard Lawless, deputy under secretary of defense for Asian and Pacific affairs, told the House Armed Services Committee in June.

As part of its response to the threat of computer attack, the Pentagon last year created a new cyberspace command to coordinate offensive and defensive operations.

In a June report to Congress, the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission said that China's top military priority was preventing Taiwan from declaring independence and deterring or delaying the arrival of any intervening forces from the United States or even Japan in the event of conflict.

Chinese defense planners also view cyber warfare as a means of undermining the technological edge of American forces, the report said.

The report also cited testimony from General James Cartwright, commander of the U.S. Strategic Command, that China was actively mounting cyber reconnaissance of official and private American computer networks in an effort to collect a wide range of important intelligence.

"General Cartwright testified that this information is akin to that which in times past had to be gathered by human intelligence over a much longer period of time," the report said.

Cartwright, who will next month become vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also warned that the disruption and chaos arising from a cyberattack could be as psychologically damaging as a weapon of mass destruction, the commission report said.

Taiwan government agencies regularly complain of attack from mainland hackers.

And, senior Taiwan government officials acknowledge that cyber warfare could threaten the self governing island's security in the event of a conflict with the mainland.

Some military experts believe the People's Liberation Army could unleash a concerted offensive against Taiwan's computer and communications network aimed at undermining the island's defenses and morale before a conventional attack or blockade.

"Cyberattack would probably be quite useful in terms of economic and psychological impact," Yang said.

Some analysts argue that Taiwan's advanced computing and information technology industry would allow the island's military to resist cyberattack more readily than countering China's mounting conventional firepower.

Cyber warfare is one of the few areas of conflict where Taiwan could be confident of maintaining an edge over the mainland, senior Taiwan government officials say.

Tension over the suspected hacking, first reported Sunday in the German news magazine Der Spiegel, dominated the three-day visit to China by Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany, which ended Wednesday.

Without directly accusing the Chinese military or confirming the computer espionage, the German leader signaled that ties between the two countries were at risk after meeting Monday with Prime Minister Wen Jiabao.

"We must together respect a set of game rules," Merkel said, referring to the reported hacking at a joint news conference with Wen. "We need mutual respect and we need to respect intellectual property rights."

In a sharp departure from the strident official denials that normally follow accusations of spying, China was almost contrite in offering to work with Germany to stamp out hacking.

Der Spiegel reported that German security experts in May had discovered spying software, so-called spyware, infecting computers in government departments including the Foreign Ministry, the Research and Development Ministry, the Economics Ministry and Merkel's office.

A group of hackers believed to be linked to the Chinese military had infiltrated these computers and the spyware was sending data back to China, the report said, citing an investigation by German intelligence services.

At their joint news conference, Merkel and Wen declined to say if they had discussed the report.

Without denying the computer attack, Wen attempted to distance the Chinese government from any hacking. "When the Chinese government ascertained there were reports saying hackers were breaking into the German computer system, we in the government took it as a matter of grave concern," he said.

"Hackers breaking into and sabotaging computers is a problem faced by the entire world," he said.

"We are willing to maintain cooperation with the German government and take firm and effective action to prevent all hacking acts that threaten computer systems."

The Chinese Foreign Ministry was even more explicit.

"The Chinese government has always opposed and forbidden any criminal acts undermining computer systems including hacking," a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, Jiang Yu, said in a statement posted on the ministry's Web site.

"We have explicit laws and regulations in this regard. Hacking is an international issue and China is a frequent victim."

Some military analysts say it is possible that amateur or so-called "patriotic hackers" in China were responsible for the attacks, but they also note that it would be difficult to operate a large-scale operation against a foreign government without alerting China's vigilant cyberpolice.
Visit signals thaw with Japan

The Chinese defense minister kicked off a five-day visit to Japan on Wednesday, the first such visit in nearly a decade and a sign of thawing relations despite concerns in Tokyo over rising Chinese military spending, The Associated Press reported from Tokyo.

The Chinese defense minister, Cao Gangchuan, will inspect and address Japan's self-defense troops, and meet his Japanese counterpart, Masahiko Komura, to discuss bolstering defense cooperation, according to the Japanese Defense Ministry.

Cao and Komura will consider setting up a defense hot line to bolster communication between the countries' militaries, as well as reciprocal port calls by navy ships, the ministry said.

Northcott
08-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Lovely. But really, is anybody surprised by this?

Enk
08-29-2007, 10:14 PM
A friend of mine works with the DoD in information security. He works with a really old IT guy - the kind of guy who reads assembly. This guy, seemingly everyday, after reading some classified report or another, looks up at my friend and says, "Well, I guess we all better start learning Chinese."

Chinese hackers are fucking scary.

Northcott
08-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Ayep. One can only hope that our militiaries are bright enough to start building in a redudancy system now. One way or another, a conflict seems to be brewing. China's attempting to build itself up into the position of a new rival Superpower. Obviously the only serious contender for this title on the west's behalf is the USA -- I really don't trust Europe enough to get their shit together to form a unified opposition, and I think that the USA's got some necessary rebuilding and reassessing to do after this last eight years of clusterfuck. I think a question of national identity has been raised, and the spotlight is now on what comprises core American values. The world's most powerful nation is, in a respect, going through an identity crisis with what may be the worst person for the job at the helm.

I sincerely wish our neighbours to the south the best of fortunes in the coming election. An inspirational leader with a vision for the future is needed.

I think the best that we can realistically hope for is that China's going to collapse under its own growth. Unions have started to creep in, capitalism is taking hold, technology is growing, their energy demands are starting to outstrip their production ability, their pollution is some of the worst in the world... they've got major problems building that, put together, may cripple them in another decade or two. Not to mention what happens if the water levels really do rise 1-3 feet from global warming, reducing available land mass and affecting crowded coastal populations.

Of course, that large and powerful an area thrown into anarchy, even a minor anarchy, is a new kind of fear in itself.

Ancalagon
08-30-2007, 08:31 AM
Ayep. One can only hope that our militiaries are bright enough to start building in a redudancy system now. One way or another, a conflict seems to be brewing. China's attempting to build itself up into the position of a new rival Superpower. Obviously the only serious contender for this title on the west's behalf is the USA -- I really don't trust Europe enough to get their shit together to form a unified opposition, and I think that the USA's got some necessary rebuilding and reassessing to do after this last eight years of clusterfuck. I think a question of national identity has been raised, and the spotlight is now on what comprises core American values. The world's most powerful nation is, in a respect, going through an identity crisis with what may be the worst person for the job at the helm.

I sincerely wish our neighbours to the south the best of fortunes in the coming election. An inspirational leader with a vision for the future is needed.

I think the best that we can realistically hope for is that China's going to collapse under its own growth. Unions have started to creep in, capitalism is taking hold, technology is growing, their energy demands are starting to outstrip their production ability, their pollution is some of the worst in the world... they've got major problems building that, put together, may cripple them in another decade or two. Not to mention what happens if the water levels really do rise 1-3 feet from global warming, reducing available land mass and affecting crowded coastal populations.

Of course, that large and powerful an area thrown into anarchy, even a minor anarchy, is a new kind of fear in itself.

The hold of the party on the population may be starting to slip. And what best way to unite a population under the rulers than a major war with a scary enemy?

Northcott
08-30-2007, 12:24 PM
The hold of the party on the population may be starting to slip. And what best way to unite a population under the rulers than a major war with a scary enemy?

Yep. Nothing unites like a common enemy, and the Chinese government has proven themselves fully capable of such behaviour throughout history. What do they care if they lose a couple million people? More fuel for patriotism, in hating the enemy.

Dacke
08-30-2007, 01:25 PM
Also, they have a pretty big surplus of young men, on account of the one-child policy.

Utrecht
08-30-2007, 02:18 PM
Couple of thoughts here

1) China is scary - but I have to wonder is the danger posed by China similar to the danger posed by the Soviet Union when viewed in retropect - lots of smoke very little fire (i.e. the nukes). and that it is in certain segments best interest in pushing an enemy.

2) China appears to be both brittle and very strong. Strong in the sense that from a cultural perspective, they are fairly unified and the leadership is able to exploit it. Brittle in the sense that their economy is VERY dependend on their identified enemy and on the provision of resources/monetary funds (however, they are working on this by buying banks - but thier central bank is still pretty shaky)

3) If they don't get their environmental issues under control - they may decide that they have little choice but to look for new resources/living space that is not completely ruined.

The Winslow
08-30-2007, 02:30 PM
Obviously the only serious contender for this title on the west's behalf is the USA -- I really don't trust Europe enough to get their shit together to form a unified opposition

Nobody should. The EU is not trying to be the USA, and even if it was, it wouldn't succeed.

As an economic block, it can become a serious rival to the USA, maybe even surpass it; but politically and militarily it'll still be just a bunch of squabbling nations.

doc
08-30-2007, 02:53 PM
Couple of thoughts here

1) China is scary - but I have to wonder is the danger posed by China similar to the danger posed by the Soviet Union when viewed in retropect - lots of smoke very little fire (i.e. the nukes). and that it is in certain segments best interest in pushing an enemy.

2) China appears to be both brittle and very strong. Strong in the sense that from a cultural perspective, they are fairly unified and the leadership is able to exploit it. Brittle in the sense that their economy is VERY dependend on their identified enemy and on the provision of resources/monetary funds (however, they are working on this by buying banks - but thier central bank is still pretty shaky)

3) If they don't get their environmental issues under control - they may decide that they have little choice but to look for new resources/living space that is not completely ruined.


Hopefully they'll head north when they do and be Russia's problem

Ancalagon
08-30-2007, 04:15 PM
Yep. Nothing unites like a common enemy, and the Chinese government has proven themselves fully capable of such behaviour throughout history. What do they care if they lose a couple million people? More fuel for patriotism, in hating the enemy.

Note that I didn't specify which super power I was talking about ;)