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Name Lips
09-16-2009, 10:55 AM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32872749/ns/politics-health_care_reform/


Senate's 10-year health fix would cost $856B
Bill unveiled Wednesday but hopes dim for bipartisan compromise

WASHINGTON - Sen. Max Baucus on Wednesday released the much-awaited Finance Committee version of an American health-system remake — a landmark $856 billion, 10-year measure that starts a rough ride through Congress without visible Republican backing.

The bill by Baucus, chairman of the Finance Committee, would make major changes to the nation's $2.5 trillion health care system, including requiring all individuals to purchase health care or pay a fine, and language prohibiting insurance company practices like charging more to people with more serious health problems.

"This is a unique moment in history where we can finally reach an objective so many of us have sought for so long," Baucus said. "The Finance Committee has carefully worked through the details of health care reform to ensure this package works for patients, for health care providers and for our economy."
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Consumers would be able to shop for and compare insurance plans in a new purchasing exchange. Medicaid would be expanded, and caps would be placed on patients' yearly health care costs. The plan would be paid for with $507 billion in cuts to government health programs and $349 billion in new taxes and fees, including a tax on high-end insurance plans and fees on insurance companies and medical device manufacturers.

The bill fails to fulfill President Barack Obama's aim of creating a new government-run insurance plan — or option — to compete with the private market. It proposes instead a system of nonprofit member owned cooperatives, somewhat akin to electric co-ops that exist in many places around the country. That was one of many concessions meant to win over Republicans.

In other ways though, including its overall cost and payment mechanisms, the bill tracks closely with the priorities Obama laid out in his speech to Congress last week.

Baucus is still holding out hope for GOP support when his committee actually votes on the bill, probably as early as next week.

The measure represents the most moderate health care proposal in Congress so far, compared to legislation approved by three committees in the House and the Senate's health panel. Obama's top domestic priority is to revamp the health care system to provide coverage to nearly 50 million Americans who lack it and to rein in rising costs.

Wednesday's bill release follows months of negotiations among Baucus and five other Finance Committee senators dubbed the "Gang of Six" — Republicans Chuck Grassley of Iowa, Mike Enzi of Wyoming and Olympia Snowe of Maine, and Democrats Kent Conrad of North Dakota and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico.

In the end, Democrats believe Snowe may be the only Republican to support the bill, though she wasn't ready to commit her support Tuesday night. "Hopefully at some point through the committee process we can reach an agreement," she said.

The bill drew quick criticism from Republican leaders.

"This partisan proposal cuts Medicare by nearly a half-trillion dollars, and puts massive new tax burdens on families and small businesses, to create yet another thousand-page, trillion-dollar government program," said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky. "Only in Washington would anyone think that makes sense, especially in this economy."

Many liberals also have concerns. Some wanted Baucus to include a public option, while others fear that, in his effort to hold down the price of his bill, Baucus didn't do enough to make health coverage affordable to working-class Americans. Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., a member of the Finance Committee, said Tuesday that he couldn't support the bill in its current form.

Baucus' plan aims to make health insurance more affordable for self-employed people and those working for small companies, who now have the biggest problems in getting and keeping coverage.

People insured through large employers would not see major changes, but some of their health care benefits would be nicked to help pay for the cost of the plan. The Baucus proposal would limit to $2,000 a year the amount people can contribute to flexible spending accounts, which are used to cover copayments and deductibles not paid by their employers. That provision would raise $16.5 billion over 10 years.

Everyone covered through an employer would learn the full costs of their health benefits, which starting next year would be reported on employees' W-2 tax forms. Although family coverage averages about $13,000 a year most workers don't know how much their employer is paying.

Not carrying insurance could result in a steep fine, as much as $3,800 per family, or $950 for an individual. People who can't afford their premiums would be exempted from the fine.

The plan proposes a $6 billion annual fee on health insurance providers, which would recoup some of the profits the companies expect to make from millions of new taxpayer-subsidized customers.

Democratic leaders are aiming for votes in the full House and Senate this fall.
Can't please the Republicans... I think people are right that they're just opposing ANY reform so they can say they're standing up to Obama. The big bully. Honestly, not one iota of praise for having cut the public option from the bill? Sheesh, I thought they'd hail that as a major victory, after all their talking about it.

I'm cautiously optimistic. The Republicans will try as hard as they can to make this bipartisan compromise look like the liberals are stonewalling them out of the process, but it actually looks pretty solid to me. Most of its funding comes from cutting existing government health care. The other amount, from taxing health care and insurance companies, was proposed by McCain and is a Republican idea, no matter how much they whine.

Utrecht
09-16-2009, 09:56 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32872749/ns/politics-health_care_reform/


Can't please the Republicans... I think people are right that they're just opposing ANY reform so they can say they're standing up to Obama. The big bully. Honestly, not one iota of praise for having cut the public option from the bill? Sheesh, I thought they'd hail that as a major victory, after all their talking about it.

I'm cautiously optimistic. The Republicans will try as hard as they can to make this bipartisan compromise look like the liberals are stonewalling them out of the process, but it actually looks pretty solid to me. Most of its funding comes from cutting existing government health care. The other amount, from taxing health care and insurance companies, was proposed by McCain and is a Republican idea, no matter how much they whine.

I agree, it is time for the Republicans to start to cowboy up. At a minimum state that yea this bill is pretty good - I would hope that in exchange for that endorsement that the senate leadership would provide some guarantees/protections that the reconciliation process with the house does not destoy this.

Bottom line, Obama WILL get something passed - so the GOP needs to get on the train at somepoint and get something that they can stomach that getting something that that they will absolutely hate.

Hatter
09-17-2009, 06:19 PM
I agree, it is time for the Republicans to start to cowboy up. At a minimum state that yea this bill is pretty good - I would hope that in exchange for that endorsement that the senate leadership would provide some guarantees/protections that the reconciliation process with the house does not destoy this.

Bottom line, Obama WILL get something passed - so the GOP needs to get on the train at somepoint and get something that they can stomach that getting something that that they will absolutely hate.

I'm not optimistic that the GOP will agree to anything. The longer they keep Obama tied down with health care reform the less he can work on the other things on his agenda and the more he pisses off the constituency.

DarwinOfMind
09-18-2009, 08:25 AM
I think this is the stupidest plan yet, I still won't be able to afford health insurance, I won't be able to afford the $950 fine they'll make me pay for it, and I'll still be too "rich" for government assistance.

TiQuinn
09-18-2009, 10:59 AM
As a general rule, I think bills that force people to buy things that they can't afford to begin with are generally, like, um, BAD, ya know?

I think it needs a public option, and I think the Democrats should ram it through with the reconciliation process.

Enk
09-18-2009, 11:14 AM
As a general rule, I think bills that force people to buy things that they can't afford to begin with are generally, like, um, BAD, ya know?

Is auto-insurance required where you live?

TiQuinn
09-18-2009, 11:18 AM
Is auto-insurance required where you live?

Yes, but not the ownership of a car.

I'm getting a feeling of deja-vu on this one.

Name Lips
09-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Is auto-insurance required where you live?

Typical counter-argument: But you can choose to live without a car, and thus not pay it. You can also choose to drive without it, and until you actually get in a wreck or pulled over, nobody will notice.


In theory you're supposed to get some sort of voucher if you're poor enough to not purchase the mandated health insurance.

If you don't qualify for the voucher, and still can't afford the insurance, you'll have to make major life readjustments to make the health insurance a priority, perhaps giving up serious, huge, major things you would never have considered sacrificing before. People might have to downgrade their homes, or figure out how to live with 1 fewer vehicle. Most people in that predicament probably pay for broadband, cable, and cell phones that can be cut to make budget room. No matter how attached you are, they're not really necessities.

I know we've considered dropping our health insurance... it would save us $400 a month and solve our financial problems. But...

Will we be able to qualify for a voucher? We qualify for food stamps and WIC, so I think so. This means our health coverage will be somewhat mitigated by this bill, which is a good thing. The government will cover some of the $400 we pay each month, so more money in our pockets. I doubt we are in the category of "too rich for vouchers but too poor to afford our own insurance."


I also foresee the insurance companies instantly offering discount, minimal, low-cost insurance. There's a whole market niche out there that the government is forcing into existence, and they'll make lots of money if they capitalize on it.

Enk
09-18-2009, 01:58 PM
Yes, but not the ownership of a car.

I'm getting a feeling of deja-vu on this one.

Knee-jerk on my part.

I asked about auto-insurance partly because your statement tweaked me, but also because my preferred health plan would end up creating an industry that looks very similar to the auto insurance industry.

DarwinOfMind
09-18-2009, 02:01 PM
Well I pay $300 a year for auto insurance.... you find me health care for that price and I'll bite.

shiningbrow
09-19-2009, 01:26 PM
I think this is the stupidest plan yet, I still won't be able to afford health insurance, I won't be able to afford the $950 fine they'll make me pay for it, and I'll still be too "rich" for government assistance.

I sympathize. We have had to cut down on our health insurance in order to afford the constantly soaring premium costs. Every year we get huge hikes, so our deductible and out of pocket expenses continue to grow. How we compensate for this is that we stop going to the doctor when we need it. I've been putting off health care appointments, because I need the money for food and mortgage. We don't buy anything other than food. We don't go out to eat, and we don't buy new clothes until the old ones are in shreds. I shop in thrift stores, etc. And the new health care plan will do absolutely nothing to help us. We are utterly disgusted. We might as well have had McCain in there for all th e good that the Democratic congress is doing for us.

Hatter
09-19-2009, 01:40 PM
I worry that a lot of people are going to be stuck with an extra bill for health care that they won't be able to afford.