RIP Senator Ted Kennedy

[Lady Fury]

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32491712/ns/politics-capitol_hill/)

HYANNISPORT - U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy died late Tuesday night after a yearlong battle with a brain tumor, his family said in a statement to the media on Wednesday morning.

"Edward M. Kennedy - the husband, father, grandfather, brother and uncle we loved so deeply - died late Tuesday night at home in Hyannis Port.

We've lost the irreplaceable center of our family and joyous light in our lives, but the inspiration of his faith, optimism, and perseverance will live on in our hearts forever.

We thank everyone who gave him care and support over this last year, and everyone who stood with him for so many years in his tireless march for progress toward justice, fairness and opportunity for all.

He loved this country and devoted his life to serving it. He always believed that our best days were still ahead, but it's hard to imagine any of them without him."

[Harry]

CNN is showing on it's front page that Ted Kennedy has passed away.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/26/obit.ted.kennedy/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Massachusetts Sen. Edward Kennedy, the patriarch of the first family of Democratic politics, died Wednesday at his home in Hyannis Port, Massachusetts, after a lengthy battle with brain cancer. He was 77.
Massachusetts Sen. Ted Kennedy, known as the "Lion of the Senate," died Wednesday at 77.

"We've lost the irreplaceable center of our family and joyous light in our lives, but the inspiration of his faith, optimism and perseverance will live on in our hearts forever," a family statement said. "We thank everyone who gave him care and support over this last year, and everyone who stood with him for so many years in his tireless march for progress toward justice."

Kennedy, nicknamed "Ted," was the younger brother of slain President John F. Kennedy and New York Sen. Robert Kennedy, who was gunned down while seeking the White House in 1968. However, his own presidential aspirations were hobbled by the controversy around a 1969 auto accident that left a young woman dead, and a 1980 primary challenge to then-President Jimmy Carter that ended in defeat.

But while the White House eluded his grasp, the longtime Massachusetts senator was considered one of the most effective legislators of the past few decades. Kennedy, who became known as the "Lion of the Senate," played major roles in passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, the 1990 Americans with Disabilities Act and the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act, and was an outspoken liberal standard-bearer during a conservative-dominated era from the 1980s to the early 2000s.

"Senator Ted Kennedy's legacy in the United States Senate is comparable and consistent with the legacy of his entire family for generations," Kennedy's biographer, Ted Sorensen, said.

Kennedy recently urged Massachusetts officials to change a law to allow for an immediate temporary replacement should a vacancy occur for one of his state's two Senate seats. Video Watch why Kennedy sought change in state law »

Under a 2004 Massachusetts law, a special election must be held 145 to 160 days after a Senate seat becomes vacant. The winner of the election would serve the remainder of a senator's unexpired term.

Kennedy asked Gov. Deval Patrick and state leaders to "amend the law through the normal legislative process to provide for a temporary gubernatorial appointment until the special election occurs," according to the letter, dated July 2. Read Kennedy's letter

Kennedy suffered a seizure in May 2008 at his home on Cape Cod. Shortly after, doctors diagnosed a brain tumor -- a malignant glioma in his left parietal lobe.

Surgeons at Duke University Medical Center in Durham, North Carolina, removed as much of the tumor as possible the following month. Doctors considered the procedure a success, and Kennedy underwent follow-up radiation treatments and chemotherapy.

A few weeks later, he participated in a key vote in the Senate. He also insisted on making a brief but dramatic appearance at the 2008 Democratic convention, a poignant moment that brought the crowd to its feet and tears to many eyes.

"I have come here tonight to stand with you to change America, to restore its future, to rise to our best ideals and to elect Barack Obama president of the United States," Kennedy told fellow Democrats in a strong voice.

Kennedy's early support for Obama was considered a boon for the candidate, then a first-term senator from Illinois locked in a tough primary battle against former first lady Hillary Clinton. Kennedy predicted Obama's victory and pledged to be in Washington in January when Obama assumed office -- and he was, though he was hospitalized briefly after suffering a seizure during a post-inaugural luncheon.

Kennedy was one of only six senators in U.S. history to serve more than 40 years. He was elected to eight full terms to become the second most-senior senator after West Virginia Democrat Robert Byrd.

He launched his political career in 1962, when he was elected to finish the unexpired Senate term of his brother, who became president in 1960. He won his first full term in 1964.

He seemed to have a bright political future, and many Democratic eyes turned to him after the killings of his brothers. But a July 18, 1969, car wreck on Chappaquiddick Island virtually ended his ambitions.

After a party for women who had worked on his brother Robert's presidential campaign, Kennedy drove his car off a bridge on Chappaquiddick, off Cape Cod and across a narrow channel from Martha's Vineyard. While Kennedy managed to escape, his passenger, Mary Jo Kopechne, drowned.

In a coroner's inquest, he denied having been drunk, and said he made "seven or eight" attempts to save Kopechne before exhaustion forced him to shore. Although he sought help from friends at the party, Kennedy did not report the accident to police until the following morning.

Kennedy eventually pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident. In a televised address to residents of his home state, Kennedy called his conduct in the hours following the accident "inexplicable" and called his failure to report the wreck immediately "indefensible."

Despite the dent in his reputation and career, Kennedy remained in American politics and went on to win seven more terms in the Senate. Kennedy championed social causes and was the author of "In Critical Condition: The Crisis in America's Health Care." He served as chairman of the Judiciary and Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committees and was the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary and Armed Services committees during periods when Republicans controlled the chamber.

Obama named Kennedy as one of 16 recipients of the 2009 Presidential Medal of Freedom, America's highest civilian honor. A White House statement explained that the 2009 honorees "were chosen for their work as agents of change."

"Senator Kennedy has dedicated his career to fighting for equal opportunity, fairness and justice for all Americans. He has worked tirelessly to ensure that every American has access to quality and affordable health care, and has succeeded in doing so for countless children, seniors, and Americans with disabilities. He has called health care reform the "cause of his life."

Born in Boston on February 22, 1932, Edward Moore Kennedy was the last of nine children of Joseph P. Kennedy, a prominent businessman and Democrat, and Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy. Joseph Kennedy served as ambassador to Britain before World War II and pushed his sons to strive for the presidency, a burden "Teddy" bore for much of his life as the only surviving Kennedy son.

His oldest brother, Joe Jr., died in a plane crash during World War II when Kennedy was 12. John was assassinated in Dallas, Texas, in 1963, and Robert was killed the night of the California primary in 1968.

Ted Kennedy delivered Robert's eulogy, urging mourners to remember him as "a good and decent man who saw wrong and tried to right it; who saw suffering and tried to heal it; who saw war and tried to stop it."

The family was plagued with other tragedies as well. One sister, Kathleen, was killed in a plane crash in 1948. Another sister, Rosemary, was born mildly retarded, but was institutionalized after a botched lobotomy in 1941. She died in 1986 after more than 50 years in mental hospitals.

Joseph Kennedy was incapacitated by a stroke in 1961 and died in November 1969, leaving the youngest son as head of the family. He was 37.

"I can't let go," Kennedy once told an aide. "If I let go, Ethel (Robert's widow) will let go, and my mother will let go, and all my sisters."

Kennedy himself survived a 1964 plane crash that killed an aide, suffering a broken back in the accident. But he recovered to lead the seemingly ill-starred clan through a series of other tragedies: Robert Kennedy's son David died of a drug overdose in a Florida hotel in 1984; another of Robert's sons, Michael, was killed in a skiing accident in Colorado in 1997; and John's son John Jr., his wife Carolyn and sister-in-law Lauren Bessette died in a 1999 plane crash off Martha's Vineyard.

In addition, his son Edward Jr. lost a leg to cancer in the 1970s, and daughter Kara survived a bout with the disease in the early 2000s.

Kennedy was forced to testify about a bar-hopping weekend that led to sexual battery charges against his nephew, William Kennedy Smith. Smith was acquitted in 1991 of charges that he raped a woman he met while at a Florida nightclub with the senator and his son Patrick, now a Rhode Island congressman.
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Like brothers John and Robert, Edward Kennedy attended Harvard. He studied in the Netherlands before earning a law degree from the University of Virginia Law School, and worked in the district attorney's office in Boston before entering politics.

Kennedy is survived by his second wife, Victoria Ann Reggie Kennedy, whom he married in 1992; his first wife, Joan Bennett; and five children -- Patrick, Kara and Edward Jr. from his first marriage, and Curran and Caroline Raclin from his second.

This bothers me quite a bit more than I expected it too, even though he's been so sick for the past year. The last of the clan... He truly was one of the greatest politicians of my lifetime, and I never would have believed that would come to be when I was 18 or so, but Ted Kennedy really grew into his role.

[Dr. Paragon]

Sigh...
:(

Via Con Dios "Lion of the Senate".

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

...it's hard to imagine any of them without him

I can think of at least one family who can imagine the world without him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Good riddance, slimeball Teddy. May you burn in hell with so many of your twisted clan.

[TiQuinn]

I can think of at least one family who can imagine the world without him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jo_Kopechne

Good riddance, slimeball Teddy. May you burn in hell with so many of your twisted clan.

Meh, to each their own. I won't be so hypocritical to comment since I felt some satisfaction when Bob Novak croaked last week.

And I still hope people come from all corners of the country to piss on Bush and Cheney's graves when that day comes.

[Limper]

And I still hope people come from all corners of the country to piss on Bush and Cheney's graves when that day comes.

So long as we can piss on Clinton and Gores graves as well I'm 100% behind you on this.

16 years of complete idiots running the country.

[TiQuinn]

So long as we can piss on Clinton and Gores graves as well I'm 100% behind you on this.

16 years of complete idiots running the country.

I'm fine with that. You despise someone but are expected to stop and be gracious when they die? Fuck that. :D

[Limper]

I'm fine with that. You despise someone but are expected to stop and be gracious when they die? Fuck that. :D

Thus is the advantage to not being a public figure... you can have real feelings about stuff.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Thus is the advantage to not being a public figure... you can have real feelings about stuff.

Heh, kind of like when a douchebag gets arrested and some dork will tell you that "he's not been convicted of anything, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty!!??" I've tried to explain to people that that only applies to jurors and that I can think whatever the hell I want to think, but now I just tell them that I guess I'm un-American. ;)

[TiQuinn]

Heh, kind of like when a douchebag gets arrested and some dork will tell you that "he's not been convicted of anything, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty!!??" I've tried to explain to people that that only applies to jurors and that I can think whatever the hell I want to think, but now I just tell them that I guess I'm un-American. ;)

Couldn't you just say "Did you feel the same way about O.J."? Course I guess that doesn't quite work anymore....

[Old Fart]

You despise someone but are expected to stop and be gracious when they die?Yes, you are. At least during the time of mourning, for the sake of those who mourn them. You're not doing it for the person in question, to whom the opinions of all living people are now meaningless.

Depending on your religious outlook, you might conclude that whatever the person has done is now in the hands of their final judge - who can punish quite severely should they chose, and whose forgiveness means that no one else should seek retribution.

Regardless, one should not act in any way that would invite comparison to the behavior of Fred Phelps.

[Utrecht]

I disagreed with him on a great many things politically, and the whole Chappaquiddick incident is a black mark that reaks of favors for the rich and powerful.

That all being said, he was an effective senator and by most accounts did fight for what he beleived in and certainly did Massachusetts proud.

[tleilaxu]

it lacks class to cheer and jeer the death of someone. let go of your hate, it only wounds yourself.

edit: and well said, old fart!

[Harry]

it lacks class to cheer and jeer the death of someone. let go of your hate, it only wounds yourself.

Precisely. I was sickened by the folks who cheered when they thought Castro was dead, and when Jerry Falwell died, and I myself restrained my feelings when Reagan died.

Believe it or not, some of us did look up to Ted Kennedy. I find it amazing that when Nixon died, many on the right thought it crass for anyone to bring up Watergate, which was a planned, well thought out series of crimes for which Nixon never answered. Kennedy made his mistake, a big one grant you, but one incident, yet conservative jack asses bring it up every time his name is mentioned.

[Hatter]

I make it a point to not speak ill of the dead, but it's a personal choice. I've no expectation that others will follow suit.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Kennedy made his mistake, a big one grant you, but one incident, yet conservative jack asses bring it up every time his name is mentioned.

Go fuck yourself, Harry. If you or I made that "big mistake", we'd be in jail for 5-7 years if not longer. Oh wait, I'm sorry, is it an "incident" or a "mistake"? I'm sure the family of Mary Jo Kopechne would call it something completely different, you sanctimonious jerkwad.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

it lacks class to cheer and jeer the death of someone. let go of your hate, it only wounds yourself.

edit: and well said, old fart!

When evil people die, it's always something to celebrate. This guy was directly responsible for the death of a human being, was never properly punished, and got away with it because he had the good fortune to be born a Kennedy.

For as much as some of you tear down the "rich", it's amusing to see your kneejerk defense of one of the richest, a guy who used his station in life to skirt a charge of manslaughter.

[Brynja]

And get back into Harvard after cheating.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

So long as we can piss on Clinton and Gores graves as well I'm 100% behind you on this.

16 years of complete idiots running the country.


Heh, thing is, I honestly would keep my mouth shut on Clinton. The guy had his sleazy moments, but for the most part I don't think I could work up anything remotely resembling hatred when he finally passes. He probably had a few more accomplishments that I grudgingly would have to credit him with now that I didn't see back when he was in office.

On the other hand, if some of you guys are offended by what I said of Uncle Teddy, I don't suggest you tune in here when the Peanut farmer finally goes to that great peanut farm in the sky.

[Aloysius]

When evil people die, it's always something to celebrate. This guy was directly responsible for the death of a human being,
So, I guess you will celebrate the death of W Bush, who is far more directly responsible of the death of hundred thousands of human beings, because it was conscious, planned decision ?

[tleilaxu]

When evil people die, it's always something to celebrate. This guy was directly responsible for the death of a human being, was never properly punished, and got away with it because he had the good fortune to be born a Kennedy.

For as much as some of you tear down the "rich", it's amusing to see your kneejerk defense of one of the richest, a guy who used his station in life to skirt a charge of manslaughter.

it's not about ted kennedy to me. i don't have any particular admiration for him. it's about what constitutes proper behavior in a civilized society. i said the same thing when reagan died, though the mindless admiration for him made me sick, and he surely was directly responsible for more deaths.

it's the same thing with your avatar: juvenile and insulting. i mean, i like you on a personal level, and we've had all kinds of interesting back and forth. it just makes me sad you can't recognize your own dickery. you've got a lot of hate.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

it's not about ted kennedy to me. i don't have any particular admiration for him. it's about what constitutes proper behavior in a civilized society. i said the same thing when reagan died, though the mindless admiration for him made me sick, and he surely was directly responsible for more deaths.

A president sending soldiers who have pledged their lives to the country into harms way is not the same as driving drunk off of a bridge and then letting a girl die because you're afraid it will ruin your political career. The comparison is so insulting that it borders on sickening.


it's the same thing with your avatar: juvenile and insulting. i mean, i like you on a personal level, and we've had all kinds of interesting back and forth. it just makes me sad you can't recognize your own dickery. you've got a lot of hate.

I like you too, but at least I reserve my hate for worthy targets - saveass politicians who trample over dead girls on their march of blind ambition and religions that treat women like shit and nonbelievers like target practice.

I'm comfortable with my hates. I like my hates. You should try it sometime...it has the side benefit of making ones' backbone a little firmer. :tongue:

[Name Lips]

To what extent do we accept bad people, if they're doing things we agree with most of the time?

It's an honest question.

People support Ted Kennedy, despite some nasty things he's done, because often he's fighting for things they want.
People support their local priests, even in the face of abuse alligations/convictions.
People support their sports heroes, despite their history of domestic violence or drug abuse.
I'm sure we could compile dozens of examples of people doing this with politicians -- from Clinton to Bush to Nixon to Carter... who's willing to ignore the bad, or figure they can live with it, becuase the good that's being done in their minds outweighs it?

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

To what extent do we accept bad people, if they're doing things we agree with most of the time?

It's an honest question.

People support Ted Kennedy, despite some nasty things he's done, because often he's fighting for things they want.
People support their local priests, even in the face of abuse alligations/convictions.
People support their sports heroes, despite their history of domestic violence or drug abuse.
I'm sure we could compile dozens of examples of people doing this with politicians -- from Clinton to Bush to Nixon to Carter... who's willing to ignore the bad, or figure they can live with it, becuase the good that's being done in their minds outweighs it?


That's an excellent point, Name Lips.

I just wanted it remembered that this guy was criminally negligent (and possibly worse) in the death of a young woman. He used his power and family ties to sleazily beat the rap against him, and went on his merry way. There are some here whose lips are quivering when thinking about the death of this 77 year old guy who lived a life of ease and luxury, while utterly forgetting the victim that he drove off of a bridge and then casually forgot to tell anyone about.

If they're comfortable forgetting that "incident" (or choose not to because of their political leanings), then so be it. They have to live with themselves.

[Dr. Paragon]

How we regard the dead says more about our character
than those who have departed.

[obryn]

IMO, Gawker had about one of the best send-offs I've seen of him.

http://gawker.com/5317300/ted-kennedy-an-assessment

Edward Kennedy, the last surviving son of Joseph and Rose Kennedy, was the third-longest serving US Senator of all time. He was a drunken degenerate. And he might've been the best argument for the US Senate ever elected.

Kennedy's parents, corrupt political fixer Joseph Kennedy and strict Rose Fitzgerald, had grand ambitions for their sons Joseph Jr., John, and Robert. But Ted, the baby, was allowed, or maybe expected, to be a charming lightweight. The family mocked him for being fatter and slower than his superstar brothers, and he accepted their ridicule good-naturedly.

In the 40s, the family disasters began stacking up: his sister Rosemary was lobotomized and institutionalized. Siblings Joe Jr. and Kathleen died. All this by the time Teddy was 16.

When brother Jack, a sitting Senator, ran for president in 1960, the family sent Teddy out on the thankless and impossible task of winning the Western States. When he failed (not costing Jack the election, thankfully), he expressed a desire to stay out west, with his wife Joan. With his brothers in DC running the nation, Ted wanted to lay low and perhaps work toward a political career on his own terms.

"The disadvantage of my position," he told an interviewer, "is being constantly compared with two brothers of such superior ability."

But Joe told him to move to Massachusetts and take Jack's Senate seat, and so Ted did. He won a bruising primary battle with the very grudging support of his brothers and cruised to victory, whereupon Jack was suddenly gunned down. In the summer of 1964, Ted was in a plane crash that killed one man and nearly paralyzed him for life. (His recuperation provided him an opportunity to educate himself, at least.) And in 1968, his brother Bobby, then running for president (because he saw Eugene McCarthy draw blood from LBJ and decided to go in for the kill himself), was assassinated in California. And so, Teddy, the dumb one, was now, at 36, the last Kennedy brother. He declined to seek the nomination for the presidency, not knowing that he'd kill his chances forever the following year.

Ted was a drunk, and he fucked around. That was true his entire life. He was an intellectually lazy, louche rich kid, whose family bought him his education, his job, and even found him an acceptable wife. He got kicked out of Harvard for cheating in 1950, and when the Boston Globe threatened to reveal this fact as Ted campaigned to be a senator, the president, Ted's brother, invited the reporter over to make sure that the actual news get pushed to paragraph 5 and the headline remained vague.

So when, in 1969, he got wasted and drove a car off a bridge, killing a woman he'd left a party with, without brothers or a father to take care of it, it is not surprising that he did not know what to do. Kennedy and Mary Jo Kopechne, a former employee of Bobby's, were driving back to Edgartown, or to the beach, or who knows where. Kennedy drove off a narrow bridge with no guardrail into the water, but escaped the sinking car. Kopechne drowned.

Ted was almost certainly drunk, possibly concussed, and probably in shock. He walked back to the party and told the hosts what happened, whereupon they drove him back to the ferry landing. Kennedy says he swam back to Edgartown, went back to his hotel room, and went to bed. The next morning, he called friends for advice (this is when his father, who'd suffered a debilitating stroke years earlier, would've come in handy). When the car, and the body, were recovered, Ted went to the police. He pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident after causing injury and received a suspended sentence of two months. And that was basically the end of his chance at the presidency.

The '70s? He did nothing in the '70s, until they ended, and he decided to challenge Jimmy Carter, whom he'd never liked. He didn't even really want to be president, it just seemed like now or never. He lost, and gave the best speech of his entire career at the 1980 Democratic National Convention, and then he buckled down to become one hell of a legislator and workhorse for the remainder of his years in the senate.

Oh, also he divorced his wife, hit the bottle hard, and began fucking around again even more recklessly than before. But he was the very definition of a functional alcoholic, able to achieve bipartisan compromises on important health care legislation by day and then fuck a lobbyist on the floor of a restaurant by night. He destroyed Robert Bork's chance at being on the Supreme Court, and paparazzi snapped him fucking a girl on his boat. He and Chris Dodd went out boozing and skirtchasing together. They'd later be joined by Ted's fuckup son Patrick and fuckup nephew William Kennedy Smith. After hitting the bar with son and nephew in Palm Beach in 1991, William allegedly raped one of the women he and Patrick had picked up. Ted testified. William was acquitted.

Ted remarried, to Victoria Reggie, in 1992. In 1994, He faced down the only serious threat to his senate seat ever, when Mitt Romney went after him. He won by 17 points, the narrowest margin of his career. After marrying Vikki and holding on to his seat, he largely avoided publicly embarrassing himself, and his scandalous past gradually faded from the popular consciousness.

In 2008, he bucked the Democratic party establishment and endorsed Barack Obama for president. In May, he suffered a seizure, and was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor. A thinner, weaker Ted Kennedy gave an impassioned speech at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, and then he largely disappeared from the public view.

His most important legacy is the legislation he was instrumental in passing. In the end, Ted Kennedy ended up a much more influential figure in American history than his more ambitious, more driven, probably smarter brothers. From Wikipedia, an incomplete list of major Senate accomplishments:

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, the National Cancer Act of 1971, the Federal Election Campaign Act Amendments of 1974, the COBRA Act of 1985, the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986, the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, the Ryan White AIDS Care Act in 1990, the Civil Rights Act of 1991, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996, the Mental Health Parity Act in 1996 and 2008, the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, the No Child Left Behind Act in 2002, and the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act in 2009.

Sadly, he didn't live to see his longtime dream of national health insurance actually come to fruition. The man's many, well-documented flaws aside, he was on the right side of history, most of the time, and he did more to actually make America a better place than 90% of the careerists and charlatans who pass through the United States Senate.

And as the undemocratic institution of the Senate (and this celebration of the life of a man who won his seat due to family connections and held on to it for almost fifty years proves the anti-democratic nature of that body) continues to destroy whatever hope this nation has of governing itself responsibly, we'll miss a man who more often than most tried to show that politics can be about tangibly helping real people.

-O

[Dr. Paragon]

/\
/\
/\

Agreed, that was remarkably on target.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

How we regard the dead says more about our character
than those who have departed.

I tend to agree. When people ignore the horrific sin of someone like Ted Kennedy, it shows they have selective and self-serving memories.

[obryn]

I tend to agree. When people ignore the horrific sin of someone like Ted Kennedy, it shows they have selective and self-serving memories.
...or they can distinguish between someone's personal life and their ability to serve the public. But Republicans are usually bad at this, unless that someone is a Republican, too, so whatevs.

-O

[Utrecht]

I tend to agree. When people ignore the horrific sin of someone like Ted Kennedy, it shows they have selective and self-serving memories.


Stannis, I have to say it - horrific is pretty strong. I dont deny that what he did was bad, criminal and slimeballish. Horrific is the Pol Pots/Ted Bundy's of the world.

Further, America is the land of 2nd (and 3rd) chances - and this includes folks like Teddy...

[Radu]

That gawker obituary was pretty honest and accurate, I'd say. Ted Kennedy did a phenomenal amount of important work and was a perennial fuckup to boot.

I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon and bitch at people for calling things like they see them. You've got your opinion, and even if I disagree I won't get after you for voicing it.

I feel Christopher Hitchens summarizes my views on this very well. This clip is in regard to Hitchens slamming Jerry Falwell after he died. (Please ignore Sean Hannity. He has no bearing on why I posted this video. Christopher's opinion is what is relevant.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrFgX83OsEY

[Trainz]

Please ignore Sean Hannity.

I tried, I couldn't.

Trying to ignore Hannity when you see him talking is like trying to ignore a cockroach walking on your living room wall. It's simply impossible.

God I despise this guy.

[Limper]

Stannis, I have to say it - horrific is pretty strong. I dont deny that what he did was bad, criminal and slimeballish. Horrific is the Pol Pots/Ted Bundy's of the world.

Further, America is the land of 2nd (and 3rd) chances - and this includes folks like Teddy...

Quite true.

Teddy was the bannerman for the enemy politic for those of us of conservative political leanings for our entire lives as such we take joy is the falling of a symbol of the opposition. His skeezy past and familial abuse of power is just icing and makes it easier to swallow being crows cheering death.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Stannis, I have to say it - horrific is pretty strong...

What say I drive your wife (or sister or mother if you're not married) off of a bridge and leave her to drown in a car that is slowly filling up with water, Utrecht.

Then you can tell me if horrific fits the bill or not.

[Utrecht]

What say I drive your wife (or sister or mother if you're not married) off of a bridge and leave her to drown in a car that is slowly filling up with water, Utrecht.

Then you can tell me if horrific fits the bill or not.

I hear what you are saying, but the man was drunk and made a HUUUUUUGE mistake, but there was no intent there - that is where the horrific/fuckup line is drawn.

If he got into the car with intent to kill Mary Joe, then I will change my opinion - but no one has ever laid that charge at Ted's foot.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

I hear what you are saying, but the man was drunk and made a HUUUUUUGE mistake, but there was no intent there - that is where the horrific/fuckup line is drawn.

If he got into the car with intent to kill Mary Joe, then I will change my opinion - but no one has ever laid that charge at Ted's foot.

He may not have intended to kill her, but his blind political ambition made sure there was no chance she would survive. Or that he would be substantially prosecuted.

To me that is suitably disgusting, wretched and yes, horrible.

[The Winslow]

his blind political ambition made sure there was no chance she would survive.

I don't follow. "his being a drunken fuckup that really shouldn't have been allowed to drive a car" would make sense here, but blaming his accident and his lack of assistance to his passenger on political ambition is odd.

[Scarbonac]

Just throwing this out there, but Teddy has stated that he dove several times in an attempt to save Mary Jo and that he was not drunk (and it has never been proven that he was). He enlisted the aid of two other people who also dove (and have attested to that as fact).

He was suffering from shock, a concussion and very probably PTSD (given he himself nearly died in a plane crash a few years prior -- trauma like that leaves its mark on a person), which could easily account for much if not all of his behavior that night after the accident -- though he himself referred to it as "inexplicable" and "indefensible". I think he was being way too hard on himself.

[Trainz]

Just throwing this out there, but Teddy has stated that he dove several times in an attempt to save Mary Jo and that he was not drunk (and it has never been proven that he was). He enlisted the aid of two other people who also dove (and have attested to that as fact).

If what you say is true, this would mean that Theo made all those statements about Kennedy without knowing what he was talking about.

I can't believe he would be that stupid. Therefore you must be wrong.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

And heeeere come the excuses. I'm sure if he walked into the police station minutes after it happened, drunk as a monkey, he would have done time for manslaughter. But he conveniently waited until he was sober before reporting it. That shows a clear case of premeditation insofar as the aftereffects of his actions that killed MJK.

PTSD indeed. :rolleyes:

[Utrecht]

He may not have intended to kill her,

agree to this

but his blind political ambition made sure there was no chance she would survive.

This is a stretch - during the critical times when Mary Joe was drowning, I highly doubt political ambition entered into - again, drunken stupidness along with shock certainly.

and Scarbonac, I have heard those claims as well, and on the surface, they seem legit - but get below the surface and they fall into the "political family calling in favors to protect iself"

Or that he would be substantially prosecuted.

On this we are in 100% agreement - strings definately appeared to have been pulled

To me that is suitably disgusting, wretched and yes, horrible.

Honestly, this is par for the course for any sufficiently powerful political family.

What I find disgusting (well perhaps to strong a word there) but annoying is the fact that Flags are at half mast in Colorado (and other non-Mass states)

Massachusets, I get - but Colorado? The man meant nothing to my state.

[Merganser]

What I find disgusting (well perhaps to strong a word there) but annoying is the fact that Flags are at half mast in Colorado (and other non-Mass states)

Massachusets, I get - but Colorado? The man meant nothing to my state.

If they're at half mast on federal buildings or property, that would be normal with the death of a senator, I believe. On other property, I suppose that's at the discretion of the property owner.

[Trainz]

And heeeere come the excuses.

I told them they were wrong and you were right bud.

Got your back.

[Utrecht]

If they're at half mast on federal buildings or property, that would be normal with the death of a senator, I believe. On other property, I suppose that's at the discretion of the property owner.

IS this active senators - or anyone who has ever been a senator?

[Merganser]

IS this active senators - or anyone who has ever been a senator?

Flying the American Flag at Half Staff
From The 'Celebrating America’s Freedoms’ Series


When should the flag be flown at half-staff?

A relatively easy way to remember when to fly the United States flag at half-staff is to consider when the whole nation is in mourning. These periods of mourning are proclaimed either by the president of the United States, for national remembrance, or the governor of a state or territory, for local remembrance, in the event of a death of a member or former member of the federal, state or territorial government or judiciary. The heads of departments and agencies of the federal government may also order that the flag be flown at half-staff on buildings, grounds and naval vessels under their jurisdiction.

On Memorial day the flag should be flown at half-staff from sunrise until noon only, then raised briskly to the top of the staff until sunset, in honor of the nation's battle heroes.

In the early days of our country, no regulations existed for flying the flag at half-staff and, as a result, there were many conflicting policies. But on March 1, 1954, President Dwight Eisenhower issued a proclamation on the proper times.

The flag should fly at half-staff for 30 days at all federal buildings, grounds, and naval vessels throughout the United States and its territories and possessions after the death of the president or a former president. It is to fly 10 days at half-staff after the death of the vice president, the chief justice or a retired chief justice of the United States Supreme Court, or the speaker of the House of Representatives. For an associate justice of the Supreme Court, a member of the Cabinet, a former vice president, the president pro tempore of the Senate, the majority leader of the Senate, the minority leader of the Senate, the majority leader of the House of Representatives, or the minority leader of the House of Representatives the flag is to be displayed at half-staff from the day of death until interment.

The flag is to be flown at half-staff at all federal buildings, grounds and naval vessels in the Washington, D.C., area on the day and day after the death of a United States senator, representative, territorial delegate, or the resident commissioner from the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. It shall also be flown at half-staff on all federal facilities in the state, congressional district, territory, or commonwealth of these officials.

Upon the death of the governor of a state, territory or possession, the flag shall be flown at half-staff on all federal facilities in that governor's state, territory or possession from the day of death until interment.

The president may order the flag to be flown at half-staff to mark the death of other officials, former officials, or foreign dignitaries. In addition to these occasions, the president may order half-staff display of the flag after other tragic events.

The flag should be briskly run up to the top of the staff before being lowered slowly to the half-staff position.

That's supposed to be by the Dept. of Veteran's Affairs. So Kennedy dies Tuesday (but let's call it Wednesday for ease) so apparently half-staff is required for yesterday & today. (edit: on re-reading, it probably means the DC area only for just senators - I originally thought they meant naval vessels docked in the area, but they probably mean for all federal property in the DC area). The president can apparently order more half-staffing whenever he wants. He ordered the following for Kennedy:

As a mark of respect for the memory of Senator Edward M. Kennedy, I hereby order, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, that the flag of the United States shall be flown at half-staff at the White House and upon all public buildings and grounds, at all military posts and naval stations, and on all naval vessels of the Federal Government in the District of Columbia and throughout the United States and its Territories and possessions until sunset on August 30, 2009.

So check-see if they're still at half on Monday, I guess. That would also only apply, as discussed before, to federal property. Other property-owners can do whatever they want, after all.

edit again: the first link at which I found the relevant text of Obama's order quoted above was Freerepublic. Utrecht, you owe me for making me go to their site, because I couldn't resist reading the comments. There are apparently children out there who refuse to fly the U.S. flag until Obama's out of office. They're flying Gadsden flags instead!

[Kyle Voltti]

The evil men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones

In the end Ted Kennedy was a man like any other with feet of clay. I think it's best to remember his good works and there were many indeed. and it is for those good works that i bow my head.