California to get rid of text books??

[Brynja]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1191831/Rise-machines-Arnold-Schwarzenegger-terminates-school-books-tells-pupils-digital.html


Arnold Schwarzenegger has unveiled a plan to terminate conventional textbooks in schools and switch to online learning aids.

The governor of California wants state students to ditch bulky books in favour of up-to-the-minute digital texts on the internet.

California is the first U.S. state to embrace online textbooks, but more are expected to follow later this year as education budgets shrink.

The former actor, who starred in films such as The Terminator and Conan the Barbarian, claimed tech-savvy youngsters will adapt quickly to the change.

'A world of up-to-date information fits easily into their pockets and on to their computer screens. So why are California's public school students still forced to lug around antiquated, heavy, expensive text books?' he said.

But while Mr Schwarzenegger insisted the move was simply keeping pace with progress, opponents suggested the real reason was financial.

California has crippling debts and faces a £15billion budget shortfall.

Last year, it spent £218million on textbooks. State officials said the average textbook cost between £45 and £60, far more than its digital equivalent.

A library official in state capital Sacramento described turning away from books as 'criminal', adding: 'Books give students a solid, reliable guide they can refer to again and again.'

From the beginning of the next school year in August, maths and science students in California secondary schools will have access to online texts that have passed an academic review.

Mr Schwarzenegger has frozen all state contracts on goods and services signed since March 1.

Amanda Fulkerson, a spokeswoman for California’s State and Consumer Services Agency, which said: 'We have to look across the board for savings.











This is a huge mistake.

[Cat's Paw Nebula]

This will turn into a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

[doc]

What about the kids that don't have or afford an online connection ?

[AZRogue]

While the idea may have potential, I have to agree with the idea that it's a mistake.

I think it's due to their budget problems, though. I mean, California is really hurting. They have far too many programs and crap to pay for, they can't afford it, and with California being the highest Income and Sales taxed State, it isn't conducive to new or struggling businesses, many of which have moved here, locally. The funny thing is that, with California's Prop 13, they rank 45th in property taxes, even while being first in Income and Sales; Prop 13, while seemingly a nice break for property owners, just shifted the tax burden from property owners and onto State corporate, income, and sales taxes, which can only increase so far before they begin hurting enough to actually start causing harm.

Spending has to be cut and it's hard to say which programs need the axe. Education is difficult to cut, for everyone. But so are public service jobs (cops, firemen), welfare, and other programs. It's not going to be easy.

I really hope the Federal government doesn't get involved. While California's total state debt may be a staggering 21% of their total GDP, the Federal government's is a mind boggling 75% of total GDP.

[Xavier Lang]

I'm curious how they might implement this.
If you just do a 100% switch, major problems are likely.
If you let people opt out of text books for say a few bucks off tuition or registration fees because they have a good internet connection, that might not be so bad and could actually save money. Even if the computer are down, you could have kids share 1 book between 2-3 kids whenever technical difficulties arise. Still potential for problems, but the exact implementation and the tech level of the area could make a partial shift work in some areas.

[AZRogue]

I'm curious how they might implement this.
If you just do a 100% switch, major problems are likely.
If you let people opt out of text books for say a few bucks off tuition or registration fees because they have a good internet connection, that might not be so bad and could actually save money. Even if the computer are down, you could have kids share 1 book between 2-3 kids whenever technical difficulties arise. Still potential for problems, but the exact implementation and the tech level of the area could make a partial shift work in some areas.

I'd also like to know, how many computers are available in classrooms right now? I mean, there were few of them when I was in school, but that was a while ago to say the least. Are there computers available for kids to easily use, now, in all schools?

One of the potential benefits of online textbooks is also one of the things that concerns me: the fact that they can be easily updated and changed. While it might be great to have instant updates to text books, I'm not sure I like implications. There would have to be a lot of oversight to make sure changes are properly motivated, not to mention that teachers can be kept up to speed with progressing text books and changes they may not be familiar with.







Personally, I would lament the fact that we've left the age of the big, dusty, heavy book behind. There's something to be gained from the physical sensation and process of reading, I think, that can't be duplicated through a screen. Maybe I'm just being silly, but I think the subtle feel of the pages, the way the pages and ink smell, are all important aspects of reading. They complete the experience.

[Schizm]

hmm. if you make the ebook reader not a computer, per say, but something e-ink llike the kindle, which has built in 3g network capabilities (sprint, in that case) you end up with lightweight, portable, and highly theifable materials.

I potentially like the idea, and fucking over the textbook industry is something that needs to be done anyway, but a huge portable technology jump in public schools right now is probably not the wisest course of action.

[Name Lips]

The textbook situation is already vastly different than when I was in school. You no longer have "your" textbook, which you bring home with you to do assignments. There's instead a "class set" and you do work from them in class. At least that's the way it was at most of the schools I subbed at a couple years ago.

This is a natural evolution of that.

[AZRogue]

The textbook situation is already vastly different than when I was in school. You no longer have "your" textbook, which you bring home with you to do assignments. There's instead a "class set" and you do work from them in class. At least that's the way it was at most of the schools I subbed at a couple years ago.

This is a natural evolution of that.

I didn't know that. That sucks.

[Random Encounter]

The textbook situation is already vastly different than when I was in school. You no longer have "your" textbook, which you bring home with you to do assignments. There's instead a "class set" and you do work from them in class. At least that's the way it was at most of the schools I subbed at a couple years ago.

This is a natural evolution of that.

I was also not aware of this.
Even though I rarely opened a textbook at home (I hated homework but I test extremely well), I always thought that students were expected to review the text for assigned reading and of course homework problems after school hours. How does that work with texts tied to the classroom? Do students get assigned study time to do assignments?

[Brynja]

hmm. if you make the ebook reader not a computer, per say, but something e-ink llike the kindle, which has built in 3g network capabilities (sprint, in that case) you end up with lightweight, portable, and highly theifable materials.

I potentially like the idea, and fucking over the textbook industry is something that needs to be done anyway, but a huge portable technology jump in public schools right now is probably not the wisest course of action.

Do you really think Pearson, McGrawHill etc wouldn't be involved?

And ebook reader costs money, they dont have.

Net I t hink this shift will cost them more.

[Brynja]

I didn't know that. That sucks.

Yeah

"it's too heavy!"

"I dont like book bags"

"My son/daughter/crotch dropping is too frail!"

[AZRogue]

Yeah

"it's too heavy!"

"I dont like book bags"

"My son/daughter/crotch dropping is too frail!"

Wow, that's even more lame. It was lame when I thought it was to save the school money, but beyond lame when it's from a parent.

If I was a parent I think I'd, oh, I don't know, WANT my kids reading their text books. :boggle:

[Brynja]

Oh they bitch about how their backs hurt, they are out of wack etc.

Yes they are. Itis called living. Deal with this. Don't raise pussified little bitches.

I am not saying a kid with scoliosis shouldnt get accomodations made but 99% of the kids can carry that shit. They just dont.

[Name Lips]

I thought it was a cost-saving measure, so they only needed one set per classroom instead of one per child. When there's 30 kids per class, and 6 periods in the day, and $75/textbook... it adds up fast. And then they have to watch half the kids not give a shit, ruin their books, never bring them, etc.

The middle school I worked at had three minute passing periods. Just enough time to dash from class to class. The bathrooms were locked during passing period. This was all to reduce gang violence - no time to start a fight, no way to grafitti the bathroom... but also no time to visit a locker, make friends, and no way to pee. Kids had to depend on the mercy of their individual teachers to give them a pass to the bathroom during classtime.

And there was no way - NO WAY - they were going to let any of their precious textbooks out of the classrooms. It was all we could do to keep them from vandalizing them in the classrooms.

(I might be a bit more cynical about these kids than I should be, since I was the long-term sub in the remedial math class, and I got all the kids who failed math the year before - including a huge majority of kids who didn't give a shit, were in gangs, etc. It was one of the worst middle schools in the worst part of the city, and I got the worst kids in it. The fuckers would be going through my desk stealing my stuff when my back was turned.)

[Brynja]

You as the parent are charged for them and you do not get your report card.

As to cost saving measure I dont see it you have the set and then what they are assigned at home is done how?

I totally see what you are saying in your situation Name lips though

[Pigs in Space]

hmm. if you make the ebook reader not a computer, per say, but something e-ink llike the kindle, which has built in 3g network capabilities (sprint, in that case) you end up with lightweight, portable, and highly theifable materials.

I potentially like the idea, and fucking over the textbook industry is something that needs to be done anyway, but a huge portable technology jump in public schools right now is probably not the wisest course of action.

I was going to suggest this too.

However, I think it's more of a thing we could do in 20 years time rather than now.

Right now the ebook readers are damn expensive compared to... A REAL BOOK!

So, I support full on digitization in the long term for sure. Not sure how it can work economically today.

[Dawnstar]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought of how big of a mistake this is because not everyone has internet connection. And I think that would cause a big issue with some schools in the state. I mean some families can not afford to have a computer. let alone internet. I do have to say that the concept is not a bad one just very hard to make it something that has to be done. I am going to have to watch this and see what they do.

[Trainz]

Why does the state has to pay for the books??? When I was in school, my parents paid for my books.

:grey:

[Schizm]

Why does the state has to pay for the books??? When I was in school, my parents paid for my books.

:grey:

because not everyone can afford textbooks, when you're talking sixty to one hundred dollars per book, and need maybe seven to eight different books per school year.


My family sure as fuck couldn't have for either myself or my sister.

[Name Lips]

Why does the state has to pay for the books??? When I was in school, my parents paid for my books.

:grey:

Because school is a state-funded right of all citizens. And required them to pay discriminates against the very poor.

[Northcott]

This is likely to blow up in the Governator's face. On the other hand, if it doesn't, and if he makes this work? He'll be a fucking hero. Seriously, he'll have single-handedly moved education into the modern day, and instituted a program that will quickly become copied across the western world.

[Janos]

I think this is a mistake. But as others said, anything that screws textbook providers is a good thing.

While manufacturers may be involved, knowing our state government and their level of organization and advanced planning, I wouldn't be suprised if McGraw, Pearson, etc just read it on Google like we did.

[Northcott]

In hindsight, I think the textbook manufacturers will love this. Sure, pdfs are a fraction of the cost... but their overhead for producting them is an even smaller fraction. Pdfs can be very profitable, if you can sell them in numbers.

So imagine a textbook where you only have to produce the text, and not pay to publish -- and then get to sell it to the school system. Profit out the wazoo.

[AZRogue]

In hindsight, I think the textbook manufacturers will love this. Sure, pdfs are a fraction of the cost... but their overhead for producting them is an even smaller fraction. Pdfs can be very profitable, if you can sell them in numbers.

So imagine a textbook where you only have to produce the text, and not pay to publish -- and then get to sell it to the school system. Profit out the wazoo.

Exactly. You're going to get invasive supra-DRM shit, a crappy pdf, and pay exactly the same amount of money, or more, as the textbook companies get to cut publishing costs.


***



I don't know, when I was a kid we'd just get our schoolbooks handed to us and we'd use them, take them home, whatever. I was an expert at converting brown bags into book covers, I'm proud to say. If you fucked up the book, you got a bill at the end of the year when you had to hand it back in. Simple, easy, and it worked.

If the kid thinks he's hardcore and says "fuck off" to the system and ignores the bills, and his parents can't pay, and he burns the books each year and laughs at the teacher's impotence as he snorts the ashes off the librarian's ass (worst case scenario, in other words), just add the bill to his Social. Let the amount grow interest, over time, until the day comes when he has fourteen kids and ten thousand dollars of Earned Income Credit and take it from that. With the interest, of course. Fuck 'em.