Castration for the worst repeat sex offenders

[Lady Fury]

Link (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/article2435811.ece)


SELF-CONFESSED violent paedophile Rafael Josef’s leg twitches as he recalls his crimes.

Boss-eyed and with tattooed knuckles, divorced Josef, 41, admits he raped a “terrified” nine-year-old girl in her own home.

After being released from prison, he bludgeoned and forced himself on an older woman who later died.

Yet soon the builder’s labourer could walk free from his secure psychiatric unit and his doctor is convinced he will not re-offend.

Josef — like dozens of the Czech Republic’s most dangerous sex offenders — has been castrated.


Last November he had part of his testicles removed at his own request to stop paedophilic urges. And if the state attorney follows the advice of medical experts, he can expect to be released after spending the past 13 years behind bars.

Speaking via a translator from his secure unit in the Czech Republic, Josef said: “I wish I had been castrated years ago and would advise other repeat violent sex offenders to have the operation.

“It was painful but afterwards I felt calmer, more balanced. I was able to think more about my life and how sorry I am for my crimes.

“Now I would trust myself to live near a school.”

The Sun spent four hours with some of Europe’s worst sex offenders at Havlickuv Brod psychiatric clinic, 100km south east of Prague.

Sitting on mustachioed Josef’s right and sporting a chilling smile is forestry worker Pavel Toman, 33

He attempted to rape a 35-year-old women before killing her with a crowbar in a horrific attack.


Also present is rapist and paedophile Karel Havlovec, 55, who admits he used to “dream of raping children every night”. Next to him, staring manically into the distance, is Ludek Jirak, 25, another self-confessed paedophile.

He molested two children, one a 12-year-old boy he was baby-sitting.

Jirak admitted: “He was crying but I couldn’t stop myself.”

All chose surgical castration to free themselves from the demons that drove them to rape or kill.

Sitting with a cuddly toy cow on his bed, Jirak revealed: “I had constant dreams about abusing little boys and girls. I asked to be castrated in March this year and the dreams stopped. Now I regret my crimes and I advise paedophiles in Britain to get this operation done.

“It will change their lives for the better.”

Toman — locked up since 1993 — was last night deemed fit for release by experts and the others hope to follow.

The Czech Republic is the only country in Europe to surgically castrate sex offenders. Dr Zelmira Herrova, 58, has overseen around 40 operations.

She said: “I think castration for these most dangerous offenders is a necessity. Surgical castration is only carried out on dangerous deviants who have to request it themselves.

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“They find castration a relief. The rate of re-offending among my patients is zero.”

In the past decade the Czech government says 94 surgical castrations have taken place.

The 30-minute operation, which can be done under local anaesthetic, removes the part of the testicles which produce testosterone.

A further 300 Czech men have undergone chemical castration — the injection of drugs that suppress the production of male hormones — since 2000.

But this is a non-permanent treatment which requires repeat injections.

The Czech doctors are proud of their work, which they believe would cut sex crime re-offences elsewhere.

But Europe’s leading human rights body, the Council Of Europe, has described it as “degrading”.

Their recent report added: “Surgical castration is a mutilating, irreversible intervention and cannot be considered as a medical necessity in the treatment of sex offenders.”

Czech father Hynek Blasko, whose nine-year-old son was raped and murdered by repeat sex offender Antonin Novak, 43, is furious human rights groups are putting the rights of criminals ahead of victims.

He said: “My son is in heaven and never coming back.

“No one wants to challenge the rights of the paedophiles, but what about the rights of a nine-year-old boy with his life ahead of him?”

Last night the Department of Health said surgical castration is not being considered for offenders in the UK. But a voluntary chemical castration programme is under way.

#

Don’t miss tomorrow’s SunTalk to hear Gaunty talking to Oliver Harvey about the castration of sex attackers.


I think if the sex offenders asks for it they should be allowed to have it done. I'd like to see more studies on this before I'd sign it into law. I'd be for it if it really did change theses pedophiles lives into some what of a better existence.

So what do you all think? Should other countries adopt a stance like this for repeat offenders?

[Name Lips]

If they request it...

Problem is, it's often not simply a crime of hormones and lust. There's other factors too. If they're castrated, they might resort to other... less survivable crimes than rape.

[The Winslow]

Given the rapists in that articles are also murderers...

[Cat of Ulthar]

If they request it...

Problem is, it's often not simply a crime of hormones and lust. There's other factors too. If they're castrated, they might resort to other... less survivable crimes than rape.

Granted, but there was one murderer among the people in the article, and he is deemed fit for release too. It sounds as if these men were driven by forces beyond their reason to control, which may well have lots to do with their testosterone levels.

If they request it, and they have been suffering from these urges all their lives, I say go ahead and do it. It is degrading, human rights groups say? I am sorry, but being locked up and not being able to trust yourself in the outside world because you have the urge to rape young children is *not* degrading??! And the victims??? The other options for these men is letting them out after conventional therapy with a good chance they'll reoffend, or keeping them locked up for life. That is what the Council of Europe considers more humane?

And it could maybe be an incentive for peadophiles to offer themselves up for treatment, if they see they can be released from their urges without being locked up for life. But for that, chemical castration would probably be better.
But for people who are likely to skip their appointments for the next chemical treatment, and who request surgical castration, please, go ahead. It *is* humane, for them, and for the world around them. It allows them to finally function as people, and treat others like people.

[Varaj]

Is there any evidence that castration (chemical or surgical) is effective?

[Cat of Ulthar]

Is there any evidence that castration (chemical or surgical) is effective?

The rate of re-offending among my patients is zero.

That is a hell of a lot less than conventional therapies.

[Limper]

They can still offend even without nuts.

Less overall desire does nothing to get rid of impulse.

[Cat of Ulthar]

They can still offend even without nuts.

Less overall desire does nothing to get rid of impulse.

They can, but apparently they don't, so there is a link there.

[Limper]

They can, but apparently they don't, so there is a link there.

I believe its a question of how often... castration eliminates a certain percentage of repeat offenses but that still means repeat offenses happen and as a parent I'm not at all sure I can get behind something that just reduces the odds.

[Cat of Ulthar]

I believe its a question of how often... castration eliminates a certain percentage of repeat offenses but that still means repeat offenses happen and as a parent I'm not at all sure I can get behind something that just reduces the odds.

The doctor said none of her patients re-offend. Maybe in the US they are locked up for life, but in Europe all too often these people get therapy and then are let go because the therapists feel they will not re-offend, and they do. So as a European non-parent, I am for this practice.

[Limper]

The doctor said none of her patients re-offend. Maybe in the US they are locked up for life, but in Europe all too often these people get therapy and then are let go because the therapists feel they will not re-offend, and they do. So as a European non-parent, I am for this practice.

Maybe with proper screening it can work but then you still have to warehouse the monsters.

[AZRogue]

That is a hell of a lot less than conventional therapies.

I'd be disinclined to believe the success rates as reported by the doctor promoting the procedure, though.


I would like a study to be done, with volunteers, and find out just how much their testosterone levels and sexual urges affect their desire to commit violent crime. Rape isn't sexual, I've always read, but a violent crime of control designed to cause pain.

But if it works, it works, and I'd be all for it. I'd rather they just do it the way we castrate pigs, though. When I used to volunteer at teen challenge in Prescott, we had to castrate pigs, hold 'em down and slice out their balls, and then slap green foul-smelling goo on the wound that would set them really screaming and then let them go limping off back to their pen.

I'd be all for doing that to the bastards.

[TiQuinn]

I'd be disinclined to believe the success rates as reported by the doctor promoting the procedure, though.


I would like a study to be done, with volunteers, and find out just how much their testosterone levels and sexual urges affect their desire to commit violent crime. Rape isn't sexual, I've always read, but a violent crime of control designed to cause pain.

But if it works, it works, and I'd be all for it. I'd rather they just do it the way we castrate pigs, though. When I used to volunteer at teen challenge in Prescott, we had to castrate pigs, hold 'em down and slice out their balls, and then slap green foul-smelling goo on the wound that would set them really screaming and then let them go limping off back to their pen.

I'd be all for doing that to the bastards.

Except for that whole cruel and unusual punishment thing. ;)

Of course, if it happened to my kids, I'd want to do the same thing to the bastard.

[Varaj]

That is a hell of a lot less than conventional therapies.

I have some doubts trusting that as a study. :)

Let's see, doctor is a 2nd world country getting state paid (probably highly paid) work. Why would he hype his success rate?

[Name Lips]

It sounds as if these men were driven by forces beyond their reason to control, which may well have lots to do with their testosterone levels.

Now that is a good point... I've done a lot of thinking about free will versus mental illness... Even with something as simple as my ADD, I often feel as though I can't force myself to do what I desperately want to do - like I'm not in charge of my own actions. But a simple drug... and I feel like I've regained free will.

I wonder how prevalent that is. People suffering from minor psychological ailments, torn to pieces because of their guilt for not doing what they know they should be doing, but being driven nuts by their inability to make themselves do so. I hear lots of people turn to self-medication - i.e., drugs or alcohol, to blunt their feelings of powerless and worthlessness over their own lives. Of course that makes it worse, but at least for a time they don't have to feel like they don't have free will, because they don't have to feel much of anything.

Usually they're too proud to realize that their conditions are diagnosable and treatable... or they don't realize they have a condition at all.

Now what if your condition was something so severe that you're hurting other people... you hate it and wish you could stop, but you can't control it. It's not like you can seek treatment - confidentiality won't shield you from a psychologist horrified that you're a rapist/murderer. How lonely and terrible must that be? No way to seek or find help, no way to pretend your life is normal, no way to force yourself to stop doing what you know is wrong... The only option might seem to be suicide, or to embrace the actions you despise.

But perhaps such things are just as diagnosable and treatable as the more minor, less criminal psychological disorders. Maybe with some therapy and a bit of medication, they can regain their free will. Maybe if we just studied things a bit more, and accepted the theory that they're not capable of free will, we could find a way to cure them.

[Varaj]

Now that is a good point... I've done a lot of thinking about free will versus mental illness... Even with something as simple as my ADD, I often feel as though I can't force myself to do what I desperately want to do - like I'm not in charge of my own actions. But a simple drug... and I feel like I've regained free will.

I wonder how prevalent that is. People suffering from minor psychological ailments, torn to pieces because of their guilt for not doing what they know they should be doing, but being driven nuts by their inability to make themselves do so. I hear lots of people turn to self-medication - i.e., drugs or alcohol, to blunt their feelings of powerless and worthlessness over their own lives. Of course that makes it worse, but at least for a time they don't have to feel like they don't have free will, because they don't have to feel much of anything.

Usually they're too proud to realize that their conditions are diagnosable and treatable... or they don't realize they have a condition at all.

Now what if your condition was something so severe that you're hurting other people... you hate it and wish you could stop, but you can't control it. It's not like you can seek treatment - confidentiality won't shield you from a psychologist horrified that you're a rapist/murderer. How lonely and terrible must that be? No way to seek or find help, no way to pretend your life is normal, no way to force yourself to stop doing what you know is wrong... The only option might seem to be suicide, or to embrace the actions you despise.

But perhaps such things are just as diagnosable and treatable as the more minor, less criminal psychological disorders. Maybe with some therapy and a bit of medication, they can regain their free will. Maybe if we just studied things a bit more, and accepted the theory that they're not capable of free will, we could find a way to cure them.

I have doubts about a simple as procedure as castration having a huge impact across a large population in a complex issue.

There is therapy for sex offenders and it is generally very successful. Sex offenders have one of the lowest recidivism rates in part because many types of sex offenders are listed as mental illness and so more treatment has been done.

I'm a big believer that more treatment for all types of criminals needs to be available. I think it would be a net savings for the US in general.

[PWD]

Except for that whole cruel and unusual punishment thing. ;)

That shit is overrated. One of the worst (but well-meaning) legalities either of our countries have adopted.

[Cat of Ulthar]

I'm a big believer that more treatment for all types of criminals needs to be available. I think it would be a net savings for the US in general.

Yeah. And if castration is a good option, I feel it should be available to people who want it.

[Varaj]

Yeah. And if castration is a good option, I feel it should be available to people who want it.

If the if is true I agree with you but I haven't seen any evidence that shows the if is true.

[PWD]

If the if is true I agree with you but I haven't seen any evidence that shows the if is true.

I don't know about its preventative effects or its use as an early release conditional, but castrating them just for the sake of castrating them is an inherently good idea.

[Varaj]

I don't know about its preventative effects or its use as an early release conditional, but castrating them just for the sake of castrating them is an inherently good idea.

I must admit I'm somewhat trepid about that.

[bondetamp]

I'm not sure why one wouldn't castrate someone asking for it ...

Admittedly I didn't read the whole article as I found it too dull, but what's the arguements for going against these wishes?

[AZRogue]

I'm not sure why one wouldn't castrate someone asking for it ...

Admittedly I didn't read the whole article as I found it too dull, but what's the arguements for going against these wishes?

Hehe, that depends. I've often wanted to treat people a certain way when I think they're asking for it. I've been told this is inappropriate.

[Random Encounter]

I'm not sure why one wouldn't castrate someone asking for it ...

Admittedly I didn't read the whole article as I found it too dull, but what's the arguements for going against these wishes?

I was wondering that too. If we phrase it as granting these prisoners the elective surgery they want rather than as a punishment being pushed on them I have to ask why wouldn't we let them do it?

The only question then becomes, do we take them having the procedure done into account when deciding if they can or should be released?

[Varaj]

I was wondering that too. If we phrase it as granting these prisoners the elective surgery they want rather than as a punishment being pushed on them I have to ask why wouldn't we let them do it?

The only question then becomes, do we take them having the procedure done into account when deciding if they can or should be released?

It costs the state money. :)

[PWD]

It costs the state money. :)

Not if you let the victims families perform the surgery. It could even become a profit vehicle.

[Varaj]

Not if you let the victims families perform the surgery. It could even become a profit vehicle.

Meh, I think the post stress issues from many of those folks performing the surgery would eat up in savings pretty quickly.

[Cat's Paw Nebula]

I'm not going to trust the word of one doctor, especially because I have seen articles about castrated re-offenders before.

That said, even if it costs the state money, I think it should be done if requested and approved by a shrink and considered a part of therapy. It should NOT be taken into account by any parole board anywhere ever.

[doc]

A bullit in the back of the head would work better

[Vermicious Knid]

I don't know about its preventative effects or its use as an early release conditional, but castrating them just for the sake of castrating them is an inherently good idea.


Yeah, this.


At the very least it kicks them out of the gene pool.

[The Winslow]

A bullit in the back of the head would work better

That's just cruel, man. Plus, he goes by "Singularity" nowadays.

[Lady Fury]

That's how a read it too. :heh: