[Rant] Uber Health Supplements

[TiQuinn]

I'm typing this while trying to maintain my composure and not run to the bathroom to hurl in the toilet.

My brother called me up earlier this week to talk to me about a new business venture he and his wife were embarking on. Apparently, they've gotten into this multi-level marketing business that sells this high-octane, uber healthy, high-fiber, high-antioxident crap in a wine bottle called MonaVie. He gave me the whole spiel: He tried it for two weeks and has never felt better in his life, the doctor who promotes it has been featured on Oprah, it's made with acai berries which is the MOST POWERFUL ANTIOXIDENT EVAH!!!!111, it's got all the dietary fiber you need, yada, yada.

The price tag? $45 a bottle. :rolleyes: But, he sends me a bottle to try for free, hoping that I'll "subscribe" and get on the mailing list for cases of this stuff. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Now, A) I hate being sold to. Particularly this multi-level marketing bullshit. It's one step above being a complete and total scam, IMO.

B) Health supplements. I hate them. There's just way too much goddamn quackery out there. Just because you can compress all this juice from all these different sources into one bottle doesn't mean it's become the single stop for all your dietary needs. Frankly, I'd rather eat the fruits and vegetables seperately. At least, I know what I'm buying, what I'm eating, and it's a helluva lot cheaper.

C) The Health Supplement Industry and its adherents like Oprah Winfrey, etc. It's nothing short of guruism. Everyone is selling nowadays that promises better physical or mental health, better skin, better sex, make more money, whatever. And it's total self-promotion based on questionable or even non-existant science. Why people buy into this shit is beyond me. Oprah, in particular, annoys the fuck out of me because I can imagine the kickbacks she makes for helping to promote this stuff.

D) I tried a shot of it today. Now I'm clammy and nauseous, and want to upchuck all over the place. I don't typically have a sensitive stomach, but this stuff is doing something NASTY to me. Would I have bought this? No. But I decided to do my brother a favor and try it.

I'm regretting it now.

[Harry]

Is your brother in your will, or on your life insurance policy?

[Glass]

It's made of people.

[Black Angel]

So you forgot in your rant:

Family selling stuff to you. Surely that sucks (I know it would for me) because you feel obliged to buy stuff, and get locked in. I would be pissed.

[Pigs in Space]

D) I tried a shot of it today. Now I'm clammy and nauseous, and want to upchuck all over the place. I don't typically have a sensitive stomach, but this stuff is doing something NASTY to me. Would I have bought this? No. But I decided to do my brother a favor and try it.

You should give your brother a call so he can tell you that this is just your body ridding itself of all the crap - you are adjusting man! stick with it!

[Freedom Canadian]

So you forgot in your rant:

Family selling stuff to you. Surely that sucks (I know it would for me) because you feel obliged to buy stuff, and get locked in. I would be pissed.

And they normally wouldn't dream of trying to sell crap to family, but this stuff is sooo awesome that they would make you a great disservice if they didn't hook you up. And they love you too much to do that to you, man.

Yay for cult-corporation hybrids ! :D

[Northcott]

Aw, man... sorry to hear it, T.

The amount of worthless crap on the market is frightening. Even in supplements as simple as protein powders, there are rumours of manufacturers out there who fill out the weight with maltodexterin (sugar! Yaaay!) and don't adjust the nutritional profile on the label. They just pay off fines as part of the cost of doing business. Lovely.

Apparently olive oil manufacturers from Italy have taken to the habit of selling sham oil: only a portion of it is actually olive oil. The rest is soy, sometimes with a little hazlenut, and a dash of colouring... then they label it "extra virgin olive oil". Nice.

I like buying local whenever I can. My trust in companies has utterly evaporated.

[Pigs in Space]

The amount of worthless crap on the market is frightening. Even in supplements as simple as protein powders, there are rumours of manufacturers out there who fill out the weight with maltodexterin (sugar! Yaaay!) and don't adjust the nutritional profile on the label. They just pay off fines as part of the cost of doing business. Lovely.

Apparently olive oil manufacturers from Italy have taken to the habit of selling sham oil: only a portion of it is actually olive oil. The rest is soy, sometimes with a little hazlenut, and a dash of colouring... then they label it "extra virgin olive oil". Nice.


Surely the consumer health department who fines them has the power to give ever-increasingly larger fines as the (obviously intentional) misleading of the public occurs?

right?

It really is a big deal for companies to get that label right - if it is a valid business model to mislead about what is actually in a food - that's FUCKED!

[Ancalagon]

Hello

As a regulator, I have a few comments on this.

1: If someone goes wrong with a product, REPORT IT. You took that supplement and you felt ill? Call the authorities! How the heck are we (the authorities) supposed to know that Magic Goatjuice (tm) makes people sick? Heck, we might not even know it's on the market! While the "big guys" play by the rules, there are a lot of small products that go directly to market without any sort of regulatory approval, and it's hard for regulators to catch them all. Of course, priority will be given to stuff that actually makes people sick.

I'm not sure who you should contact in the USA, but in Canada, call Health Canada. And since the squeaky wheel gets the grease, if nothing gets done call them again, call your local political representative etc.

2: Political will. If you the public care about public safety, you have to inform your political representative. And this is where it gets tricky. It's very tempting for legistlators to simply pass a more strigent law against stuff. But 9/10 of the time that's not the appropriate answer. We don't need more laws we need more *enforcement*. So please tell that to your representative, to the media etc. Compliance and enforcement departments need more resources to do their job effectively.

Ancalagon

[Prorpger]

Particularly this multi-level marketing bullshit.



It's not such much the number of levels but the over all shape thats worrisome.

http://school.discovery.com/clipart/images/pyramid.gif

[Northcott]

Surely the consumer health department who fines them has the power to give ever-increasingly larger fines as the (obviously intentional) misleading of the public occurs?

right?

It really is a big deal for companies to get that label right - if it is a valid business model to mislead about what is actually in a food - that's FUCKED!


Yeah, it's a huge thing. As Anc points out, though, the authorities are at an extreme disadvantage to get these clowns in line -- there are so many out there, pulling so many nasty little stunts, and so very few seem to be genuinely ethical. Look at the recently exposed practice of the Chinese substituting other nitrogen-rich (toxic) substances for protein! The nitrogen allows the food to pass basic inspection as a protein.

The problem with olive oil was that a vast number of Italian exporters were doing it. I can only hope that their ties with the EU combined with some sort of national pride and/or business sense will cause a massive backlash against that in their country.

And therein lays the other problem: who can get away with what, and where they can get away with it. Who can blame an importer for believing that an Italian company is shipping the extra virgin olive oil it claims it is?

Maltodextrin in your protein powder -- would you even notice? Many proteins have a very bland flavour that is sweetened easily; a label claim of a minority of sweetner is enough to fool most people.

It's wretched little weasels cutting corners without regard for ethics that put entire industries in jeopardy, not to mention the health of individuals. In the supplement industry, for example, cutting corners with prohormones a few years ago lead to some nasty little side effects for people. That some were producing safe, responsible products mattered little once the public furor started. Next thing you know, they're a banned substance categorized with steroids -- in spite of the fact that they were, at best, marginally effective and nowhere near being in that league.

[Ancalagon]

again, report it. Adverse events (when someone uses a product and gets ill or injured, vs just it not working) really get the authorities jumping.

Ancalagon

edit: oh and yeah, that's totally a pyramid scam...

[Northcott]

again, report it. Adverse events (when someone uses a product and gets ill or injured, vs just it not working) really get the authorities jumping.

Noting the mention of the "now a banned substance" comment above. ;) The "all or nothing" mentality that many people seem to hold can be very dangerous when it comes to nutrition. Look at how fats were treated for years on end, and now there's a backlash in the opposite direction of people flipping out about carbs with little regard for quality, timing, etc.

I'm waiting for the next fad: Protein is teh eval. Without it, mind you, the body just doesn't build worth a damn, and that includes basic functions. Hopefully the next fad will cull the herd a little. :D

[Ancalagon]

the horror stories I hear about natural products... products with heavy bacteria contamination, using heavy metal dusts as filler, herbs that are poisonous in (not so high) doses... what the heck?!?

[Northcott]

the horror stories I hear about natural products... products with heavy bacteria contamination, using heavy metal dusts as filler, herbs that are poisonous in (not so high) doses... what the heck?!?

Yep. And one horror story about (for example) echinacea will send the public into a frenzy of fear where they'll avoid that product entirely. Or there's a chance the government may ban it.

Between greed and stupidity I often wonder how our species has survived this long.

[TiQuinn]

I'm gearing up for the argument with my brother now about why I won't be buying any of it. Fun times, fun times. :)

[Ancalagon]

I'm gearing up for the argument with my brother now about why I won't be buying any of it. Fun times, fun times. :)

but are you going to call the authorities? If it made you sick, it could make someone else gravely ill!

[Pigs in Space]

but are you going to call the authorities? If it made you sick, it could make someone else gravely ill!

Aren't you paying attention? TiQuinn is full of toxins, man! Toxins!

Puking and sweating uncontrollably is how you get rid of them!

[TiQuinn]

but are you going to call the authorities? If it made you sick, it could make someone else gravely ill!

Yeah, I called the Food Safety and Inspection Service and reported it. I was naseous for a little while but it passed. I checked the label on the stuff and noticed that the shit contains shellfish. I'm not allergic or anything, but at the point, I said fuck it, I'm calling.