Acupuncture

[Pigs in Space]

So folks, I just had a session.

Has anyone else (besides the beautiful BA, who had it in the neck) had the needle joy?

I thought I'd bring it up cos it's an interesting alternative therapy, and... it was bloody effective!

So... the backstory is that I have had achilles problems for a few years now, and the fucking thing has flared up again, so off to the physio to get it looked at. My calf tightness is the issue, it's putting unnecessary pressure on the tendon sheath - too much rubbing. I'd had a massage on Saturday, where the massuer really ripped into my calf and I was bruised, so the physio was dubious about also ripping in with deep tissue massage.

Needles... the alternative.

It was not painful and I did not bleed, but those needles jammed into my calf, were freaky deaky. They felt like very heavy pressure, like he was grinding both thumbs into me as hard as he could, and then as I lay there with a total of 12 needles in me, the pressure eased over about 10 minutes. Amazing stuff. My calf muscle is now a lot more relaxed, although it feels like it's been abused by a bad man in a long coat.

I have another session next week!

[Cat of Ulthar]

Interesting, PiS; I've never had it done, but I am interested to hear how this will affect you. Keep us posted please!

[Brynja]

I will only care when they start jamming you like a voodoo doll.

[SpikeyFreak]

My wife, being from a traditional Thai family, used to believe that acupuncture was the greatest thing ever.

I, on the other hand, have always thought it was a bunch of placebo mumbo-jumbo.

We both had our feelings on the issue turned upside down when my wife had a session a while back (something she did probably once or twice a year), and it gave her the second worst migraine she's ever had (the worst at the time). Ended up going to the hospital.

Needless to say, she doesn't go anymore, but I will say that it changed my opinion on it, there is definitely SOMETHING going on there.

--Skeptic Spikey

[Random Encounter]

I've heard about the effectiveness of acupuncture but have not yet tried it myself.
It's something I may look into for my upper back pain. I keep all my stress in my shoulders/upper back area and I get knotted up something fierce.
Now it's just a matter of finding an acupuncturist I can trust.

[there_is_no_bob]

Should have gotten sham acupuncture.

It's just as effective!

[Varaj]

Mayo clinic has done a lot of research on acupuncture and found it to be very effective for certain types of pain management.

They originally went into to prove it was total bunk and had to rethink everything because they found it wasn't. The original study that started the others was pretty amusing to read because of that.

[Name Lips]

I've never had acupuncture. But I'll shamelessly quote myself from the "fuck Gary Goodyear" thread.


I know it's off-subject, but I'm reminded of a fun story my tai chi teacher told me about acupuncture. "When I visited China I got a toothache. My brothers (fellows who studied under the same master) told me to see an acupuncturist and that he would take away the pain. I figured what the hell and saw him. Amazingly, I left with no pain in the the tooth whatsoever.

A month later the tooth fell out, totally rotten.

So maybe they're good for pain. But they're lousy at dentistry."
And that is my most direct experience with it.

I also read a fascinating article about an acupuncture study. Half the subjects got real acupuncture from actual experts, and the other half got "fake" acupuncture from people who, while trained not to do anything stupid, still pretty much stuck the needles in at random.

Both worked just as well.

I'm not one to knock the placebo effect, because in my mind it's simply harnessing the body's inherent ability to self-heal, which makes it real in my mind. I'm just saying that though acupuncture "works" in that after a session your condition and symptoms might improve, it might be more your own body being inspired to do things it wasn't bothering doing before. That is to say the acupuncture might have been more of a catalyst for the healing. You wouldn't have shown improvement without it, but any one of the "harness the placebo effect" type therapies might have also worked.

Interestingly enough, people who believe in the ability of doctors to treat them show much greater improvement than people who are skeptical or think doctors are all quacks. It's extremely difficult to say what role the placebo effect plays in any/all types of medicine.

[Radu]

For certain treatments --- pain management, muscle cramps, tension, stress, and the like, acupuncture can be very effective. My younger brother used to have asthma attacks pretty regularly when he was a kid. We tried steroid medication, inhalers, humidifiers-- the whole nine yards. Nothing worked. Finally we went to an acupuncturist, who needled his back to get his chest muscles to relax and his trachea to open up again. It worked when nothing else did.

I fully believe that it is effective, but I don't buy all the mystical trappings that typically go with it. "Energy flow" and "realigning your chi" and all that nonsense belongs more in a bad fantasy novel and/or the new age section of a book shop than it does with anyone who is legitimately trying to practice medicine. Fortunately, there are fewer and fewer places (in Albuquerque at least) where that kind of quackery goes on, and more that rely on hard science and good medical technique in combination with acupuncture, massage, and non-traditional therapy.

At least you didn't go see a homeopath. They make me want to stab and kill. :mad: I don't see any difference between them and false psychics like Jon Edwards. They just prey on people at their weakest moments.

[doc]

Don't like needles

[Lady Fury]

I was thinking about having this done for my left arm. I'm constantly having tendon issues in it and getting steroid shots every 6 mos isn't an effective treatment.

[AZRogue]

I have no idea how it works, but it definitely can. There was a lot of effort put out to disprove it, too. So, rock on acupuncture!

I've never had it done but would if I had to. Those needles are too thin to be scary. They look like hairs, almost.

[Northcott]

I used to see this acupuncturist (is that even a word?!?) who was a doctor in China. Old dude who didn't get his license here, choosing to set up a little acupuncture clinic instead, and recommending Chinese herbal remedies for certain conditions.

I went to see him when I was desperate. Both my shoulders were fucked, my doctor had me on NSAIDs long enough that I was doing the bleeding stomach ulcer dance, osteo specialist agreed that things weren't right, but couldn't think of what to do about it.

Old dude stuck a couple dozen needles in my arms, through my back, up my neck, and in my shoulders. I made the mistake of trying to move my head while I was doing a porcupine impersonation, and was instantly rewarded with the MOST FUCKING PAINFUL SENSE OF BEING ELECTROCUTED THROUGH THE FUCKING NECK. So I learned to lay real effin' still.

But by the end of that first session I was able to do something I hadn't been able to do in months: lift my arms above my head without discomfort. Turned out it was muscle tightness fucking with subtleties of my shoulders. Acupuncture smashed up the roadblock. A few sessions let me stretch things out, and took it to the point where I started seeing a massage therapist to keep things working smoothly.

He also fixed my back once, when it was super fucktarded. As in I limped into his office bent to one side, and unable to move without teeth-grinding pain... and walked out of his office, upright, with only some stiffness in my back. Did the same for a buddy of mine. Old dude knew his shit.

[Black Angel]

For certain treatments --- pain management, muscle cramps, tension, stress, and the like, acupuncture can be very effective.
...
I fully believe that it is effective, but I don't buy all the mystical trappings that typically go with it. "Energy flow" and "realigning your chi" and all that nonsense belongs more in a bad fantasy novel and/or the new age section of a book shop than it does with anyone who is legitimately trying to practice medicine.

Yeah that was my thought on acupunture also when i first went to see this guy. In fact I only went to see him as a physio, and didn't realise he did acupuncture also. He suggested it may help my back/neck issues, and it made a huge difference (hence I recommended him to PiS for his achilles problems). His style of acupunture he describes more as 'dry needling' which sounds terrible, but pretty much involves digging the needle down to the muscle that's causing the issue, and getting it to relax. I'm not really sure how it works, but it definitely does - there is definite muscle spasms as they relax, so it is certainly doing something.

Don't like needles
Neither did I, but after the physio sprung it on me without much chance to refuse, I gave it a go. In the end I can handle it if I don't have to see it (which being on my neck and back isn't a problem). Also, they don't feel like needles going in - like PiS said it feels more like someone pressing on you in a more generalised way. It's weird.

[Pigs in Space]

Just to follow up on the dry needling goodness:

Things have been much improved all week, my calf is less tight, it is causing less strain on the achilles, the acupunture has been brilliant for convincing the knots in my muscle to relax and release the tension.

I had 6 more needles in the second session this week, half the number. He spent more time actually massaging and stretching the muscle this week than last.

3 weeks he reckons, I'll be running again.

So for the doubters, acupuncture clearly works very well, at least for this application - an alternative to deep tissue massage. I doubt it's useful for relaxation, or broken bones, etc. ;)

[Janos]

I tried acupuncture for a bad knee injury I had years ago on the recommendation of my PT. It did wonders to dull the pain, but I also tended to push the knee more than was healthy, so they took me off it after a few months. I would probably try it again, but thankfully haven't injured myself enough to need any treatment of that sort.