Phelps and pot.

[Trainz]

The guy is a virtual american hero. What a fucking great OPPORTUNITY did he miss by being the little whiny cunt that he is and apologize for smoking pot.

He could literally have made the greatest milestone of pot decriminalization. He could have said "Yeah I smoked pot. So what? Booze detroys more families and lives and it's legal".

:mad:

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Eh, I don't think he wants to be the next NORMAL spokesman. Look, he did something most kids his age do, and chances are, with his body and life, he isn't going to be torching up every day.

He's a young guy, full of fame and money and he did what a lot of kids his age do. He did something mildly illegal. I don't think he needs to trumpet it from the rooftops and be proud of it, but he shouldn't get the scarlet letter ("S"toner?) either.

Yeah, booze kills more and all that. But it doesn't mean that hardcore and constant marijuana use doesn't have its negative side effects, either.

[Harry]

I think that the dumbest thing out of this yet is the local head cop talking about putting a warrant out for Phelps, instead of busting up the locals that GAVE him the pot.

I did hear a great joke about how stupid those frat boys were.... who passes their bong to a guy with the lungs of a dolphin?

[TiQuinn]

He's taking a little bit of heat for it which is probably a good thing for him. Outside of the corporate sponsor angle, it's the case of a 23 year old doing something dumb but ultimately irrelevant. Life goes on.

[Dawnstar]

Who the hell gives a damn if he smoked pot. I swear the media treats it like he just snorted cocaine. He is in his early 20s and is going to make some stupid choices. Life goes on.

[Utrecht]

I OK with the attention that he is getting - live by the sword die by the sword. After all, he is OK with the gossip magazines covering who he is dating - so shit like this is fair game.

In the end it will hurt him - especially in the corporate sponsorship arena.

[Dawnstar]

I OK with the attention that he is getting - live by the sword die by the sword. After all, he is OK with the gossip magazines covering who he is dating - so shit like this is fair game.

In the end it will hurt him - especially in the corporate sponsorship arena.


One company already is backing him saying he made a bad choice and all people make bad choices.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

Who the hell gives a damn if he smoked pot. I swear the media treats it like he just snorted cocaine. He is in his early 20s and is going to make some stupid choices. Life goes on.

I totally agree.

[The Winslow]

The guy is a virtual american hero.

He's a young guy, full of fame and money and he did what a lot of kids his age do.

Okay, so you must not be talking about the God Hates Fag guy...

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

Okay, so you must not be talking about the God Hates Fag guy...

:lol:

[Trainz]

Yeah, booze kills more and all that. But it doesn't mean that hardcore and constant marijuana use doesn't have its negative side effects, either.

That's not my point. This guy, if he could have thought outside the box, could have made a big diff. I see this as a missed opportunity, and it saddens me.

Now please note that I smoke pot once a year, if at all, so my motives are noble: fight real crimes instead of busting the balls of non-threatening citizens.

[Trainz]

I OK with the attention that he is getting - live by the sword die by the sword. After all, he is OK with the gossip magazines covering who he is dating - so shit like this is fair game.

In the end it will hurt him - especially in the corporate sponsorship arena.

:shock:

You're saying this as if he did something wrong.

[Trainz]

I think that the dumbest thing out of this yet is the local head cop talking about putting a warrant out for Phelps, instead of busting up the locals that GAVE him the pot.

So a guy selling pot to an adult should be busted up?

This is just another step in the ongoing witch-hunt for pot smokers.

[Trainz]

He's taking a little bit of heat for it which is probably a good thing for him. Outside of the corporate sponsor angle, it's the case of a 23 year old doing something dumb but ultimately irrelevant.

So smoking pot is dumb. Gotcha.

Do you drink, occasionally?

[Trainz]

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.

All your opinions on pot consumption are your own, and they're as valid as mine. I'm not really interested in actually going into THAT debate again, I'm burnt out (so to speak), and without Eldorian on board, the funney would be absent, and if that's the case, what's the point?

I just hope, those who think bad things about pot, that I at least gave you food for thought, and invite you all to review your stance on it, if only to reafirm your current views.

Thanks.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

So smoking pot is dumb. Gotcha.

Do you drink, occasionally?

I think you'd find most of find smoking pot occasionally as not being something to be proud of, but not something to trumpet, either. At least that's my point of view. But doing it to excess or doing it regularly is just as bad as someone who drinks to excess and gets drunk, regularly.

[Trainz]

At least that's my point of view. But doing it to excess or doing it regularly is just as bad as someone who drinks to excess and gets drunk, regularly.

Precisely.

So we agree, pot and alcohol should be treated the same. We agree that occasional use of pot should be allowed for adults, and that criminalizing it is wrong.

[Black Angel]

Trainz, I think that regardless of personal opinions, what he did is currently illegal, so in that sense, yes it is bound to hurt his sponsorship deals. If he becomes a crusader for pot use, while that might help the pot cause, I don't really see it being very effective for him in his career. The majority of the world also considers this drug illegal after all. I'm pretty sure it's also a banned substance for athletes which would mean if it's in his blood steam when competing, he'd be denied any future medals, so in fact it could actually ruin his career altogether.

This is probably coming off sounding like I'm a pot hater, but that's actually not really the case. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other. I'm just trying to say you need to consider the other implications of his actions, and the current laws that exist, not the ones we would like to have in place.

[Dawnstar]

Trainz, I think that regardless of personal opinions, what he did is currently illegal, so in that sense, yes it is bound to hurt his sponsorship deals. If he becomes a crusader for pot use, while that might help the pot cause, I don't really see it being very effective for him in his career. The majority of the world also considers this drug illegal after all. I'm pretty sure it's also a banned substance for athletes which would mean if it's in his blood steam when competing, he'd be denied any future medals, so in fact it could actually ruin his career altogether.

This is probably coming off sounding like I'm a pot hater, but that's actually not really the case. It doesn't really bother me one way or the other. I'm just trying to say you need to consider the other implications of his actions, and the current laws that exist, not the ones we would like to have in place.


Actually BA I was watching the news and a player who got his olympic metal taken away because he tested postive for pot got his metal back because Pot was NOT on the not allowed substances list.

[Lady Fury]

I am one of those people who thinks pot should be regulated like alcohol. I don't think what Phelps did was wrong on a personal level but since it is currently illegal then he should be held to the same standards that all law breakers get.

[TiQuinn]

:shock:

You're saying this as if he did something wrong.

Define "wrong". I mean, despite your opinion about marijuana use, it is still illegal.

[TiQuinn]

So smoking pot is dumb. Gotcha.

Do you drink, occasionally?

Yes, I'm having a drink right now.

Guess what? It's legal. If it were illegal, I probably wouldn't drink.

Funny how that works, huh?

[TiQuinn]

Mmmm, I just poured myself another nice LEGAL glass of vodka.......mmmmmmmmmmm......I can enjoy this completely from the comfort of my home......I might even call the cops and just let them know I'm drinking. Isn't ALCOHOL great?

[Trainz]

Mmmm, I just poured myself another nice LEGAL glass of vodka.......mmmmmmmmmmm......I can enjoy this completely from the comfort of my home......I might even call the cops and just let them know I'm drinking. Isn't ALCOHOL great?

Sorry buddy, you're going to have to find someone else to get nasty with.

Going through tough times?

[TiQuinn]

Sorry buddy, you're going to have to find someone else to get nasty with.

Going through tough times?

Not at all. Just enjoying myself, only slightly at your expense. :)

[Space Cadet B^3]

Legalize it, tax it, use the new income source to save the economy.

Yes, I smoke. I still think I'm right.

[Varaj]

Legalize it, tax it, use the new income source to save the economy.

Yes, I smoke. I still think I'm right.

I don't smoke pot and I think you are right.* :)


*Full disclosure: I used to smoke pot.

[Trainz]

Not at all. Just enjoying myself, only slightly at your expense. :)

Talk to Green Lantern, he could give you a few tips.

[there_is_no_bob]

Legalize it, tax it, use the new income source to save the economy.

Yes, I smoke. I still think I'm right.

I think you're right, and I don't and never have smoked pot. Or anything else for that matter.

[tleilaxu]

let each state decide for itself and get rid of fed involvement.

[Ancalagon]

Hello

What is this about "oh he broke the law, he broke the law"

There are a lot of dumb laws. Some are not enforced, some are. There are so many that we probably all have broken the laws several times in our lives, unwittingly. I'm all for the integrity of the legal system, but sheesh, we have to do better than this tangled mess.

And pot being illegal is dumb.

[Freedom Canadian]

What is this about "oh he broke the law, he broke the law"

There are a lot of dumb laws. Some are not enforced, some are. There are so many that we probably all have broken the laws several times in our lives, unwittingly. I'm all for the integrity of the legal system, but sheesh, we have to do better than this tangled mess.

Anti-drug laws are enforced, though. We are not talking about obscure laws that have not been enforced for decades, here.

The fact is that every day, poor people get busted for drug possession. Giving a pass to this guy simply because he is well known is wrong. And as long as people do get busted for it, then I'm all for throwing the book at Phelps too (as long as it's all done nice and legal-like).

And that's the position of someone who is all for the integrity of the legal system. ;)


And pot being illegal is dumb.

It being criminal sure is dumb. And it being illegal probably is too. I agree. :)

[Trainz]

Anti-drug laws are enforced, though. We are not talking about obscure laws that have not been enforced for decades, here.

The fact is that every day, poor people get busted for drug possession. Giving a pass to this guy simply because he is well known is wrong. And as long as people do get busted for it, then I'm all for throwing the book at Phelps too (as long as it's all done nice and legal-like).

See, it's not his conviction/non-conviction I'm pissed about, it's his POSITION. He shouldn't apologize as if he did something wrong, he should say "I accept full responsibility for what I did, but I won't apologize for it: smoking pot shouldn't be a crime." and become a spokesperson for the pro-pot lobby. Given his olympic glory, he would be perfect.

[there_is_no_bob]

See, it's not his conviction/non-conviction I'm pissed about, it's his POSITION. He shouldn't apologize as if he did something wrong, he should say "I accept full responsibility for what I did, but I won't apologize for it: smoking pot shouldn't be a crime." and become a spokesperson for the pro-pot lobby. Given his olympic glory, he would be perfect.

Fuck no. He's got no responsibility to reform the law.

He should have the goddamn book thrown at him, regardless of his celebrity.

[Harry]

So a guy selling pot to an adult should be busted up?

This is just another step in the ongoing witch-hunt for pot smokers.

Wow. Way to get overly fucking defensive AND read tons of intent into my remarks. The sheriff of whatever dumb fuck county Phelps was in has gone on TV and said he's gonna try to arrest Phelps. Arrest the guy for having a photo taken while his head is in a bong. The guy passing through town and stopping at a college party. Yeah, right, that's the guy to arrest if you're gonna arrest someone. And arrest him weeks or months after the photo was taken. Brilliant.

I'm making fun of the cops, pothead.

[Trainz]

Wow. Way to get overly fucking defensive AND read tons of intent into my remarks. The sheriff of whatever dumb fuck county Phelps was in has gone on TV and said he's gonna try to arrest Phelps. Arrest the guy for having a photo taken while his head is in a bong. The guy passing through town and stopping at a college party. Yeah, right, that's the guy to arrest if you're gonna arrest someone. And arrest him weeks or months after the photo was taken. Brilliant.

All right all right... I think we agree on principle.

I'm making fun of the cops, pothead.

Pothead? Really?

Now please note that I smoke pot once a year, if at all

AAH AAH AAAAAAH AAAH !!!

:tongue:

[Bagpuss]

Okay, so you must not be talking about the God Hates Fag guy...

Yes but I still don't know who they are talking about are there any other famous Phelps'?

[Black Angel]

Yes but I still don't know who they are talking about are there any other famous Phelps'?

They are talking about Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimmer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Phelps

[TiQuinn]

Pothead? Really?

Originally Posted by Trainz
Now please note that I smoke pot once a year, if at all

AAH AAH AAAAAAH AAAH !!!

:tongue:

The rest of the time, you're probably smoking crack.

See, it's not his conviction/non-conviction I'm pissed about, it's his POSITION. He shouldn't apologize as if he did something wrong, he should say "I accept full responsibility for what I did, but I won't apologize for it: smoking pot shouldn't be a crime." and become a spokesperson for the pro-pot lobby. Given his olympic glory, he would be perfect.

Fuck no. He's got no responsibility to reform the law.

He should have the goddamn book thrown at him, regardless of his celebrity.

I agree with there_is_no_bob. I don't think he should have the book thrown at him, but why should he feel obligated to reform the law? That's just crazy.

[Cat's Paw Nebula]

Given that even the regular pot smokers I know make lots and lots of stoner jokes, I really don't blame him for not wanting to make a big deal out of it. I mean, things could go well, or he could trash his reputation, not because pot is so bad but because of all the easy jokes.

Full disclosure: Have never smoked, but think it should be legal. Think of the taxes, man!

[Varaj]

Anti-drug laws are arbitrarily enforced, though. We are not talking about obscure laws that have not been enforced for decades, here.

The fact is that every day, some people get busted for drug possession. Giving a pass to this guy is extremely common. And as long as people do get busted for it, then I'm all for throwing the book at Phelps too (as long as it's all done nice and legal-like).

And that's the position of someone who is all for the integrity of the legal system. ;)




It being criminal sure is dumb. And it being illegal probably is too. I agree. :)

FIFY, People are given passes on drug charges all the time. Even in small towns police decide a scare is a better tact than jail. Big whigs get the passes more often than small timers but it happens at all levels all the time.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Precisely.

So we agree, pot and alcohol should be treated the same. We agree that occasional use of pot should be allowed for adults, and that criminalizing it is wrong.

Produce for me a reliable field test to give police for testing people who may be under the influence of it while driving and I'm probably closer to favoring legalization than you might think.

[Ergeheilalt]

Produce for me a reliable field test to give police for testing people who may be under the influence of it while driving and I'm probably closer to favoring legalization than you might think.

Has there been an attempt to do this?

[Varaj]

Produce for me a reliable field test to give police for testing people who may be under the influence of it while driving and I'm probably closer to favoring legalization than you might think.

Field urine or blood testing takes 10 minutes and is reliable. All that would need to be set is legal limits just like we have for alcohol. It is what is currently used by law enforcement to determine DUI for something other than alcohol.

[Space Cadet B^3]

Full disclosure: Have never smoked, but think it should be legal. Think of the taxes, man!Not just the taxes, the agricultural retooling, the "grass" roots economic development would be phenomenol. An end to the hemp silliness, and further research into it as an agricultural product, etc.

[TiQuinn]

Not just the taxes, the agricultural retooling, the "grass" roots economic development would be phenomenol. An end to the hemp silliness, and further research into it as an agricultural product, etc.

I love the idea for exactly those reasons.

[Cat of Ulthar]

And stupid stupid Britain has just taken a huge step backwards in reclassing it from a Class C to Class B drug. As one guy put it:

"Maybe I should be out down the pub, getting pissed, getting in punch-ups and shouting my head off? That seems the establishment's preferred option. "

[there_is_no_bob]

I don't think he should have the book thrown at himI want that done just to show how completely fucking stupid it would be.

[Harry]

Field urine or blood testing takes 10 minutes and is reliable. All that would need to be set is legal limits just like we have for alcohol...

It would take a fair bit more than that. I'm not sure if I want cops in the field doing blood tests. And you're opening up a can of worms by making suspects drop their trousers or skirts right there in the emergency lane. I don't think I want cops doing this, and unlike many I trust and like most cops I meet.

[Varaj]

It would take a fair bit more than that. I'm not sure if I want cops in the field doing blood tests. And you're opening up a can of worms by making suspects drop their trousers or skirts right there in the emergency lane. I don't think I want cops doing this, and unlike many I trust and like most cops I meet.

Several states already do it.

[Space Cadet B^3]

I think there's a saliva test in the works IIRC

[Trainz]

I think there's a saliva test in the works IIRC

Good.

And I would be for ZERO tolerance where it comes for DUI. You can't have just one joint and drive. Smoking a joint and driving is probably like having a six pack and driving.

[Name Lips]

They found that driving after having missed a night of sleep is worse than driving while legally drunk, in terms of reaction time, tendency to lose control over the vehicle, judgment, and so forth.

Sadly I don't know of a field test for that.

[Varaj]

They found that driving after having missed a night of sleep is worse than driving while legally drunk, in terms of reaction time, tendency to lose control over the vehicle, judgment, and so forth.

Sadly I don't know of a field test for that.

Research backs you.
Impaired driving is tested with the counting, walking, standing one leg, etc. You can be ticketed for driving impaired (failing those tests) even without failing a breath test or blood test.

[Black Angel]

I think there's a saliva test in the works IIRC

We have a saliva test over here, in use by police currently. It doesn't test for levels though, it's either a yes or no to the presence of the drug.

There's only one unit in our state that uses it so far though. I guess it's pretty technical to swab someone's mouth and wait for the colour to change... either that or it's really expensive. So I have never been tested. Drink driving, they have units all over the place, and any cop car or bike has a machine to test you. So I've been tested for that about 4 times in my driving career (happy to say I passed them all!).

[tleilaxu]

The fact is that every day, poor people get busted for drug possession. Giving a pass to this guy simply because he is well known is wrong.

It is only because he is famous that he is even being threatened with action. If Joe Schmo put a picture of himself smoking pot in Richland County back in November, the Sheriff wouldn't be after him.

[tleilaxu]

either that or it's really expensive.

and horribly invasive. call me crazy, but the idea of cops swabbing people's cheeks at traffic stops is distinctly unappealing to me.

[Ancalagon]

One of the problem with alcohol and driving is that it impairs people's judgment. People who know better when sobber get behind the wheel. I think pot would have less of an effect like that. I'm certainly not saying it has NO effect on judgment - and I'm certainly not saying that there aren't people out there with no judgment to begin with! But I think pot is less likely to have people go drive, or just make trouble in general.

[Freedom Canadian]

FIFY, People are given passes on drug charges all the time. Even in small towns police decide a scare is a better tact than jail. Big whigs get the passes more often than small timers but it happens at all levels all the time.

Sure. How does that contradict what I said ? In the US, there are hundreds of thousands of people in jail for simple drug possession right now.

All I'm saying is that Phelps should not get a pass solely because he's famous. And especially not based simply on the fact that the current poster thinks pot should be legal.


It is only because he is famous that he is even being threatened with action. If Joe Schmo put a picture of himself smoking pot in Richland County back in November, the Sheriff wouldn't be after him.

That is a very good point.

Also, it would cost a lot of resources to go after him now.

Let me amend my vague earlier position: Had he done something that would land other people in legal trouble like, say, get caught red handed with drugs by a police officer, then I would say they should throw the book at him. And they probably would have.

(And by "throw the book", I mean charge him with drug possession, not make up a huge list of bullshit offenses to mess him up deliberately.)



It would take a fair bit more than that. I'm not sure if I want cops in the field doing blood tests. And you're opening up a can of worms by making suspects drop their trousers or skirts right there in the emergency lane. I don't think I want cops doing this, and unlike many I trust and like most cops I meet.

Yeah, I agree with every word of that post. :)

Simply training cops to draw blood safely would be super expensive and knowing police officers and their working conditions, they would have a lot of trouble keeping things sterilized and preventing infections.

Of course in the US, you could add lawsuits for negligence because someone got infected and things like that.

It's probably not a big enough deal to prevent decriminalization of marijuana by itself though.

[Bagpuss]

They are talking about Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimmer.

Oh well that makes more sense then, no wonder he said sorry, it could get him banned from competition.

[Cat of Ulthar]

One of the problem with alcohol and driving is that it impairs people's judgment. People who know better when sobber get behind the wheel. I think pot would have less of an effect like that. I'm certainly not saying it has NO effect on judgment - and I'm certainly not saying that there aren't people out there with no judgment to begin with! But I think pot is less likely to have people go drive, or just make trouble in general.

I was thinking the same yesterday; thinking it would be less likely to have an error of judgement. People tend to get overcourageous when having had alcohol (nah, I can still drive, no problem!) and much less so when having had pot. I would never think I could do any task that required speedy reactions, hell even gaming is too much of an effort sometimes!

But not saying it should not be tested, because I myself got hit by a car by a guy leaving the coffee shop, and the cops did not test him, not even ask him; because I was wearing old clothes and had a tattooed long haired boyfriend and the guy was wearing smart clothes and driving his dad's BMW, so I was the guilty party.
There are always assholes who don't think about anyone.

[Utrecht]

I OK with the attention that he is getting - live by the sword die by the sword. After all, he is OK with the gossip magazines covering who he is dating - so shit like this is fair game.

In the end it will hurt him - especially in the corporate sponsorship arena.

One company already is backing him saying he made a bad choice and all people make bad choices.

Kellog's dropped him as a sponser today.

Additionally, the US Swimming Assosciation suspecded him for 3 months from competative swimming.

[Dawnstar]

Well he made the mistake, he has to deal with the fall out.

[Trainz]

Kellog's dropped him as a sponser today.

Additionally, the US Swimming Assosciation suspecded him for 3 months from competative swimming.

All things considered, that's not too bad considering the "war on drugs" current drift.

[The Winslow]

I was thinking the same yesterday; thinking it would be less likely to have an error of judgement.

Soundness of judgment* isn't the only factor for driving ability. Impaired reaction times is probably more important.

(* English is odd, they dropped the 'e' yet still pronounce that 'g' as a soft 'g'.)

[Name Lips]

Soundness of judgment* isn't the only factor for driving ability. Impaired reaction times is probably more important.

(* English is odd, they dropped the 'e' yet still pronounce that 'g' as a soft 'g'.)

(Don't go into a room of English majors and start the "judgement" vs "judgment" argument. Unless that sort of thing amuses you of course.)

[Cat of Ulthar]

Soundness of judgment* isn't the only factor for driving ability. Impaired reaction times is probably more important.

(* English is odd, they dropped the 'e' yet still pronounce that 'g' as a soft 'g'.)

No, but what I meant was, someone who is stoned is less likely to think they can still drive than someone who's drunk. I know that when I\m stoned my reaction speed is way out of the window and I would not do anything more dangerous than ride my bike (and preferably not even that).

[The Winslow]

(Don't go into a room of English majors and start the "judgement" vs "judgment" argument. Unless that sort of thing amuses you of course.)

(It does. I'd even toss "jujment" on the fire to see the reactions.)

No, but what I meant was, someone who is stoned is less likely to think they can still drive than someone who's drunk.

If they've got some sort of responsibility, maybe... Some people just don't care, or think accidents only happen to others.

[Freedom Canadian]

Additionally, the US Swimming Assosciation suspecded him for 3 months from competative swimming.

Now, that's pure bullshit.

Quote from a Globe and Mail article :



"This is not a situation where any anti-doping rule was violated, but we decided to send a strong message to Michael because he disappointed so many people, particularly the hundreds of thousands of USA Swimming member kids who look up to him as a role model and a hero," the Colorado-based federation said in a statement.

Of course, it's not as if they can prevent him from swimming altogether and there are no olympics in the next three months, so who cares ?

[Random Encounter]

This guy (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090207/D966PNBG1.html) is probably a better spokesman for pot legalization than Phelps, if only in England.

UK milkman delivered cannabis with bottles of milk

Feb 7, 9:33 AM (ET)


LONDON (AP) - A British prosecutor says an elderly milkman supplied customers with cannabis as well as bottles of milk.

Robert Holding, 72, delivered marijuana as he made his daily rounds in the town of Burnely, in northwestern England.

Prosecutor Sarah Statham said Friday that Holding offered the drug to elderly customers suffering from aches and pain. She says the customers left Holding notes on their doorsteps to order the drug.

According to Britain's dairy industry, around 1.5 million British homes have milk delivered by a milkman. Deliveries have declined over the last 20 years.

Holding pleaded guilty to supplying the drug and was given suspended jail sentence of 36 months.

Jailed for bringing what amounts to medicine to the elderly to ease pain and suffering. Oh yeah, he's one of them monster drug dealers making a quick buck hooking innocents on his devil-weed. :rolleyes:

I know he broke the law, and I'm sure the court had to sentence him to a minimum amount of jail time based on the charges. But this might make people take a second look at those laws and if they really represent the moral high ground anymore.

[Cat of Ulthar]

This guy (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090207/D966PNBG1.html) is probably a better spokesman for pot legalization than Phelps, if only in England.



Jailed for bringing what amounts to medicine to the elderly to ease pain and suffering. Oh yeah, he's one of them monster drug dealers making a quick buck hooking innocents on his devil-weed. :rolleyes:

I know he broke the law, and I'm sure the court had to sentence him to a minimum amount of jail time based on the charges. But this might make people take a second look at those laws and if they really represent the moral high ground anymore.

He wasn't put in jail, if only because his wife is ill.


Drug-dealing milkman spared jail
Robert Holding
Robert Holding was told his sentence was an "act of mercy"

A milkman who supplied cannabis to customers to ease their aches and pains has walked free from court.

Robert Holding, 72, of Fair View Road, Burnley, admitted possession and supply of cannabis and received a suspended prison sentence at Burnley Crown Court.

The court heard that his wife has Alzheimer's disease and recently moved into a care home.

Judge Beverley Lunt told Holding the sentence was "an act of mercy" in light of his wife's illness.

A previous hearing was told how Holding delivered the drug while doing his rounds to 17 customers he had built up through "word-of-mouth".

He admitted at an earlier hearing to supplying cannabis resin between April and July 2008, and possessing cannabis with intent to supply on 17 July last year.

Prosecutor Sarah Statham told the court that police found out about his activities and raided his property when his wife and daughter were at home.

'Extremely frank'

During the raid, Holding arrived home in the van he used for his milk round and officers found nearly 6oz (167g) of cannabis split into 15 separate packets in an egg crate in the vehicle.

Miss Statham said the smallest amount the packets contained was 0.1oz (3g) of the drug and the largest amount was 0.7oz (20g).

She said the cannabis had an estimated street value of £450.

She added that Holding was "extremely frank" during the course of the police interview.

She said: "He said he sold the cannabis to existing customers because they were old and had aches and pains.

"He said he sold a 9oz (255g) bar about every three weeks and sold it for a relatively cheap value.


He misguidedly believed he was providing a public service
Judge Beverley Lunt

"He said that customers left him notes saying, for example, 'Can I have an ounce this week or can I have an eighth?'."

The court heard that Holding has been married for 53 years and has six children and 28 grandchildren.

Philip Holden, for the defence, said in mitigation that his client became tearful at the thought of being sent to prison and not being able to see his wife.

"He is very fearful that her mental health will deteriorate further if he's unable to see her on a daily basis," he said.

He said an unusual feature of the case was that Holding "wasn't making much of a profit" and said he made more of a profit on his milk round.

He said his oldest client was 92 and added: "Word had got out that he was a man who could supply cannabis to those of a certain age with aches and pains and he misguidedly believed he was providing a public service."

Mr Holden said Holding sold the drug far below its street value, selling one-eighth for £4.10 as opposed to the £10 it would normally fetch.

Judge Lunt said: "You were not some philanthropist helping out the elderly out of the good of your heart. You dealt drugs for profit in a calculated way. It was a business."

She added: "You didn't consider what effect those drugs might have had on the people you were supplying."

Holding received a 36-week sentence for each count, suspended for one year.

He also received a one-year supervision order.

That judge is such a cunt. Clearly making a profit is *not* what he was after and he *did* know what the effects were: the people would be in less pain. :(

[there_is_no_bob]

Jailed for bringing what amounts to medicine to the elderly to ease pain and suffering. Actually, he won't be serving jail time.

Unless he commits a crime during his probation period. If he wasn't fined, then the court effectively gave him a free pass so long as he doesn't do it again.

[Ancalagon]

apparently Obama did it. And it's ok for him to admit.

But if you are Canadian and want to go to the states, it is NOT ok to admit it. EVER.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/02/06/f-rfa-macdonald.html


The Americas
Marijuana laws
What's wrong with a little puffsky?
Last Updated: Friday, February 6, 2009 | 4:25 PM ET Comments69Recommend109
By Neil Macdonald, CBC News

This is a country whose new president has smoked pot. Not just smoked it, he inhaled, too. Got stoned and everything.

At least that's what Barack Obama said in his book, Dreams of My Father. Apparently a little puffsky here and there helped him in his search for racial identity as a young man.

Now, Obama doesn't specify where exactly he smoked dope. But he says he did it when he was a high school and college student, meaning it was likely in Hawaii, where he spent his teenage years, or in California, New York or Massachusetts, where he pursued his higher education.

That means the president is probably safe from retroactive prosecution. Safer, anyway, than Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimming sensation who was photographed with his snout in a big, smoke-filled bong at a university party in South Carolina in November.

Phelps, who can't really use the excuse about searching for his racial identity, has already publicly grovelled and apologized for his actions, but that just made things worse.

Sheriff Leon Lott of South Carolina's Richland County considered that apology "a partial confession" and, when taken together with the incriminating picture, it may well land Phelps in front of a judge.
Checkerboard laws

President Obama, though, is in no such danger. California, New York and Massachusetts are among the 11 U.S. states that have decriminalized pot.

Police in those jurisdictions barely bother with personal marijuana use these days. And while Hawaii hasn't joined that club, it always imposes probation for a first offence.

Being a Harvard-trained lawyer, the president must know about the weird, lopsided legal inequalities here as far as marijuana is concerned, which might explain why he hasn't uttered a public word about Phelps's predicament. This, apparently, is not the kind of change he wants anyone to believe in.

But these inequities are pretty stark. Phelps, says Allen St. Pierre of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, is a "victim of geography."

According to NORML, roughly 115 million Americans now live in jurisdictions where possession of a small amount of marijuana is no longer a criminal offence. Had Phelps hit the bong in, say, Ohio or Mississippi, he'd be in danger of nothing more than a traffic ticket type fine.
Less reefer madness

State governments here are increasingly paying attention to the wishes of voters, the vast majority of whom think possession of marijuana should not be a criminal offence. Four in 10 Americans tell surveys they've smoked up at least once in their lives.

The public stigma of pot is declining, too, given that this country is now run by people who came of age in the 1960s and '70s.

Along with Obama, the list of prominent admitted pot-smokers in the U.S. includes: former vice-president Al Gore, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, former congressman and right-wing icon Newt Gingrich, and former Democratic presidential nominee Howard Dean.

Bill Clinton, of course, toked but claimed he didn't inhale. And given George W. Bush's coy tap-dancing around the subject of his cocaine use back in university, chances are he fired up the odd joint then, too, during his frat days.

Still, as St. Pierre puts it, "where this subject is concerned, there is still no good reason to be honest."

That is because, while state governments might be relaxing their rules, the federal enforcement system, now ultimately headed by Barack Obama, remains rigidly, implacably, militantly anti-pot.
Beware the feds

Federal agencies, which wield enormous power here, dismiss state marijuana laws as irrelevant. Even laws allowing for medical marijuana use.

"It's Orwellian, Kafkaesque," says St. Pierre, who clearly relishes the chance to hold forth on the subject.

"There are some people who might well be a bona fide medical marijuana patient in a state," says St. Pierre, but if they wind up in the sights of a federal agent, "they're going to face federal charges, and they do."

Then there's the border. At the border, you can be penalized not just for possessing dope, but for having talked about possessing dope.

Crossing into the States, Google can be your enemy. U.S. customs agents have computers and often do searches to try to find if someone entering the U.S. has had what they call "a primary relationship with cannabis," St. Pierre says. Even if they have never been arrested for it and don't possess it, they can still be denied entry.
Canadian travellers

Canadian travellers need to understand this: fessing up anytime, anywhere, can mean a permanent ban from the United States.

And it happens. Last March's edition of the West Kootenay Contact, the newsletter of that region's chapter of the Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, carried the story of Karyn, a 54-year-old B.C. woman who suffers from the disease and had a problem at the border. I spoke to her by phone.

On a trip to Spokane, Wash., to drop her son off for a flight to Florida, she was asked by a U.S. customs agent at the Nelway border crossing if she'd ever smoked marijuana.

Being a rule-obeying Canadian, she said yes, she had, as treatment for her painful leg spasms, and produced her medical permit, issued by Health Canada. She is one of the 2,812 people to whom Canada has granted official permission to use medical marijuana.

"I was truthful in all ways," she told me. "I had cards in my possession that identified me as a licensed user, and I didn't want to be caught lying."

The border agent, she said, examined her federal permit, photocopied it and then informed her she was being barred from the U.S. for being an "admitted drug user."

She says she was fingerprinted, forced to pose for mug shots, "and warned that if I attempt to enter the U.S. again, I will be heavily fined and any vehicle I'm in will be confiscated.

"It was horrible. Horrible, horrible horrible."
Enforcing American law

I called U.S. Customs and Border Protection, which confirmed that Karyn's story fit their policy.

It does not matter to them that the Canadian government licenses its citizens and even provides them with government-grown marijuana. As far as the U.S. government is concerned, that just makes Canada a big, official dope dealer.

"A Canadian licence isn't valid under U.S. law," said the Customs and Border Protection official who returned my call.

Yes, he said, it might sound unfair, and yes, he knows about the states that have decriminalized: "That's state law. We apply federal law."

So I called Health Canada in Ottawa and asked spokesman Philippe Laroche if the Canadian government tells its citizens that possession of a valid, federally issued medical marijuana licence is grounds for being barred from the United States.

"No one has ever asked that question," he responded.

Canada Customs, incidentally, shares information with its U.S. counterpart and you can definitely be barred from Canada for drug use, too.

Again, though, President Obama shouldn't worry on his trip to Ottawa later this month. Canada Border Services Agency generally only bars people with a drug conviction in their past.

Obama has never been convicted of marijuana use, or for snorting cocaine, something else he's acknowledged doing. And besides, the president will be travelling to Canada later this month on a diplomatic passport. There shouldn't be any problem at all.

[Cat of Ulthar]

So if I understand this correctly, if president Obama leaves the country, and tries to get back in, the feds can ban him?:what:

[Xavier Lang]

So if I understand this correctly, if president Obama leaves the country, and tries to get back in, the feds can ban him?:what:

Special rules apply when you are the head of State. :D

[Xavier Lang]

My guess is that the prohibition against marijuana will not change for another 25-30 years. By that time, your old codgers will be people like me and we will have known enough presidents, radio personalities, celebrities, friends, etc... that did pot and didn't become evil fiends that the culture will shift enough for its status to be changed. I"m not saying it will happen in 25-30 years, but it will take that long for the culture shift to be mainstream enough that politicians can debate the subject on its merits instead of its emotional "drugs bad" state.

[tleilaxu]

My guess is that the prohibition against marijuana will not change for another 25-30 years. By that time, your old codgers will be people like me and we will have known enough presidents, radio personalities, celebrities, friends, etc... that did pot and didn't become evil fiends that the culture will shift enough for its status to be changed. I"m not saying it will happen in 25-30 years, but it will take that long for the culture shift to be mainstream enough that politicians can debate the subject on its merits instead of its emotional "drugs bad" state.

i doubt that. there will just be a gradual lessening of emphasis on it, until it fades into the background and no one cares.