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Name Lips
11-30-2008, 01:20 PM
But not for the reason you think.

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27969265/)


Parents' desperate plea: No more ads for toys
Amid tough economy, some parents say ads unfairly target kids

NEW YORK - In a season that inspires earnest letters about toys, one notable batch is being sent not by kids to Santa's workshop but by parents to the executive suites of real-world toy makers.

The message: Please, in these days of economic angst, cut back on marketing your products directly to our children.

The letter-writing initiative was launched by the Boston-based Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood, which says roughly 1,400 of its members and supporters have contacted 24 leading toy companies and retailers to express concern about ads aimed at kids.

"Unfortunately, I will not be able to purchase many of the toys that my sons have asked for; we simply don't have the money," wrote Todd Helmkamp of Hudson, Ind. "By bombarding them with advertisements ... you are placing parents like me in the unenviable position of having to tell our children that we can't afford the toys you promote."

The Toy Industry Association has responded with a firm defense of current marketing practices, asserting that children "are a vital part of the gift selection process."

"If children are not aware of what is new and available, how will they be able to tell their families what their preferences are?" an industry statement said. "While there is certainly greater economic disturbance going on now, families have always faced different levels of economic well-being and have managed to tailor their spending to their means."

'Trouble saying no'
In recent conference calls with investors, toy company executives said they expect to suffer some holiday-season impact from the economic crisis, yet suggested their industry would be more resilient than many other sectors. The toy industry is commonly viewed as recession-resistant, due largely to the parent-child dynamic.

"Parents have trouble saying no," said Allison Pugh, a University of Virginia sociology professor. She says parents often buy toys to avoid guilt and ensure their children feel in sync with school classmates.

"Even under circumstances of dire financial straits, that's the last thing parents give up," said Pugh. "They'll contain their own buying for themselves before they'll make their child feel different at school."

Amanda Almodovar says she encounters such families in her work as an elementary school social worker in Alamance County, N.C., where homelessness and unemployment are rising.

"I had one parent who said she'd prostitute herself to get what her child wants," Almodovar said. "It's heartbreaking. They feel inadequate as parents.

"I try to tell them, worry about your home, your heating bill — but they're the ones who have to look into children's faces, the children saying 'I want this, I want that.'"

More time playing?
Even in some households not in fiscal crisis, there's a sense that this holiday season is different.

John Schenkenfelder, a financial adviser and father of three in Louisville, Ky., wrote a blog entry this month urging families to scale down their gift-giving and spend more time playing together.

"This has been bugging me for years, even when times were great," Schenkenfelder said in a telephone interview. "Maybe people will get it this year — they're so unprepared for this debacle. They're shell-shocked."

In Columbus, Ohio, Erin Beth Dower Charron has been trying to brace her 4-year-old son and 8-year-old daughter for more subdued gift-getting this year as the family begins financial belt-tightening.

"My 8-year-old is still holding out hope that Santa will get her that one special gift, but understanding this year may be different," Dower Charron said. "My son doesn't understand. Everything he sees, he wants."

Toy ads on kids' TV shows make the process harder, she said. "The onslaught seems to be more intense this year."

Dower Charron was among the hundreds of parents who took up the suggestion to write to toy companies.

"Help me understand why your toy is the better one for my child, and why it should be one of the few I can afford," she wrote. "Don't leave that up to my children."

The director of the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood, psychologist Susan Linn, said she and her colleagues don't expect toy companies to stop advertising — rather, they want the ads directed at parents.

"It's cruel to dangle irresistible ads for toys and electronics in front of kids — encouraging them to nag for gifts that their parents can't afford," she said. "It's just not fair."

The big toy makers aren't likely to redirect their ads for one fundamental reason, according to Richard Gottlieb, a New York-based consultant to the industry.

"Toy companies advertise to children because it works, to be brutally honest," Gottlieb said in an interview.

Parents' job
Gottlieb also contends that it's good for children to encounter toy ads — even in cases where products later turn out to be disappointments.

"It teaches, for very low stakes, how to navigate in our consumer culture," he said.

"They are going to have to spend the rest of their lives listening to every kind of marketing approach, and childhood is where they will learn to cope with it."

As for the economic pressure on parents, Gottlieb sounds a fatalistic note.

"Believe me, there are families with much bigger issues on their plates right now then worrying about whether their child will be unhappy because they did not get a particular toy," Gottlieb wrote in his "Out of the Toy Box" blog. "Delivering disappointment goes with the job of parenting."

ZOMG those poor parents! Placed in the horrifying, sickening, terrifying position of telling their children "No." It's not fair to do this to them! How could advertisers be so cruel?

The Winslow
11-30-2008, 01:57 PM
What's wrong with people?

Kyllikki
11-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Huh.

We didn't have cable growing up, because we couldn't afford it. Even after we could it was so totally not a priority for my parents.

Coudln't afford a lot of expensive toys either. We had the basics, obviously, and even a few luxuries like bikes and sleds. But neither Bro or i much cared about gadget-y toys.

Are we freaks?

Like you, Name Lips, i guess i don't have too much sympathy for the parents. Cancel cable and apply that money towards books and games and maybe the kids won't realise they are missing out because they'll be too busy playing?

Brynja
11-30-2008, 02:01 PM
Being told no is important to growth. It teaches kids to deal with disappointment in positive ways.

God I hate people.

Complaint Department
11-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Being told no is important to growth.

But an entire generation was never told 'no.'

It teaches kids to deal with disappointment in positive ways.

God I hate people.

Don't embitter yourself - you have to live with the misery, not the ones who inspired the anger.

Dr. Paragon
11-30-2008, 04:35 PM
We were so poor that for two winters we went without electricty
for two months of the summer without water. We had a couple of
pretty lean christmasses those years (+2). But here's the thing;
I knew then that my parents loved me, and they did explain the
reason why we had government cheese instead of the newest doo-dad.
I have never held that situation against them because they both
were juggling 60+ hour schedules. Sometimes life is hard no matter how
hard you work to offset costs. These folks need learn that
lesson and quick.






(+1)(Showered at my grandparents house after school before my mom
got off work from one of her two jobs...)
(+2)(thank you so much for the warm memories Reagonomics...)

shiningbrow
11-30-2008, 10:29 PM
Perhaps if these parents would turn off the television once in a while, their children would not be bombarded with so many ads. Try reading to them or something if all those ads bother you. Or, here's an idea. Have them watch public television!

Brynja
11-30-2008, 11:15 PM
But an entire generation was never told 'no.'



Don't embitter yourself - you have to live with the misery, not the ones who inspired the anger.

That is a good suggestion, thank you.

Seriously, thank you.

Name Lips
12-01-2008, 07:46 AM
I've told my kids that anything advertised on TV - which largely they see only on Saturday morning since we don't get cable - is by its nature too expensive for us to get. And anything they ask for they'll forget in a few hours anyway. I just can't comprehend these parents who must be frantically writing down their children's slightest whim or desire so they they can make sure all their dreams come true on Christmas.

Enk
12-01-2008, 01:22 PM
What the fuck ever happened to allowances, and the accompanying exchange of "I want this toy!," "Then save up your allowance and let me know when you want o go to the toy store to buy it."?

Name Lips
12-01-2008, 02:08 PM
What the fuck ever happened to allowances, and the accompanying exchange of "I want this toy!," "Then save up your allowance and let me know when you want o go to the toy store to buy it."?

My son is saving up for a microscope and two birds (he wants finches).

Varaj
12-01-2008, 02:18 PM
My daughter thinks we're mean because we do that. :)

She over spent on her school lunches (she has a limit) so we took the extra from her allowance and explained that if she had come to us a head of time we would have worked something out but because she spent without checking she pays for it.

Lady Fury
12-01-2008, 02:18 PM
My oldest daughter is saving up for more Webkins. Her room is going to be over run by them come Christmas time. She likes to go online with the code that comes with each animal. I don't think she'd want them otherwise.

As for the commercials, my kids know that we can't have everything we see on tv. And they are ok with that.

Lady Fury
12-01-2008, 02:20 PM
My daughter thinks we're mean because we do that. :)

She over spent on her school lunches (she has a limit) so we took the extra from her allowance and explained that if she had come to us a head of time we would have worked something out but because she spent without checking she pays for it.

That's a good way to handle the situation. My daughter has problems remembering her library books. We've lost 2 over the last few months. I've looked everywhere in this house and couldn't find them. I'm sure they'll pop back up once the fine is paid.:grey:

Atropine Mama
12-01-2008, 02:42 PM
I have zero problems with telling my kids "no" when they ask for something advertised. If they ask why, they are told straight up that it's not something we can afford or something we think is worth spending money on. No bullshit about this stuff, they understand just fine, and they get a good idea early on that Things Cost Money. They don't just magically appear.

This year we're doing a lot more crafty/bake-y/activity & sing-along stuff for Christmas because we're not rolling in it. And that's fine. That's actually preferable for me because they'll remember making paper snowflakes and mailing construction paper letters to Santa more than they'd remember unwrapping a million and one plastic pieces of crap. I can't recall a single Christmas gift that I got when I was a kid, but I sure as hell remember decorating cookies and making popcorn strings.

Fuck the advertisers. Fuck them by turning off the goddamn TV and talking to your kids like they're small humans, not like they're pets.

The Winslow
12-01-2008, 02:55 PM
Wisdom

A truth that too many people do not see. Raising kids doesn't mean buying them everything they think they want, but spending time with them.

Black Angel
12-01-2008, 03:12 PM
My favourite memories of Christmas as a kid are icing cookies with my 2 brothers, that we then got to eat a few days later on the big day. We did it every year at my aunt's house (I think it was an excuse for mum to go shopping or have some personal time!).

It's something I still try to do every year with them now that we're all grown up, even though none of us have kids yet. It's a nice way to spend some family time together, without the pressures of Christmas day.

Lmik
12-01-2008, 04:11 PM
The problem with letting your kids save their allowance for stuff they want is the appalling choices they make. The captain of our National Rugby team and best player in the world Ritchie McCaw is unfortunate to play for Canterbury at provincial level whereas my four year old son and myself are from Wellington. So here I am wearing my black and gold wellington gear taking my son to our home games while he has a red and black canterbury shirt on because he wants to be like Ritchie McCaw and he saved up and bought a Ritchie McCaw Canterbury shirt.

Pigs in Space
12-01-2008, 06:46 PM
The problem with letting your kids save their allowance for stuff they want is the appalling choices they make. The captain of our National Rugby team and best player in the world Ritchie McCaw is unfortunate to play for Canterbury at provincial level whereas my four year old son and myself are from Wellington. So here I am wearing my black and gold wellington gear taking my son to our home games while he has a red and black canterbury shirt on because he wants to be like Ritchie McCaw and he saved up and bought a Ritchie McCaw Canterbury shirt.

I think this defines when it's both correct and appropriate to say NO.

Name Lips
12-01-2008, 06:47 PM
"But father, it's my tuppence! I want to feed the birds!"

Ink Bleeder
12-01-2008, 10:31 PM
"But father, it's my tuppence! I want to feed the birds!"

That reminded me of this recent column on Salon.com:

Nov. 26, 2008 | Dear Cary,

Yesterday, I gave my just-turned-6 son some pocket money. On the way to the swimming pool (he was going to spend his money afterward) we passed a beggar, who was sitting on the ground outside a church with a paper cup. My son asked me if he could give his money to the beggar. I advised him not to.

We live in a country with a generous social welfare system (which I support! I am happy to pay my taxes to help create a caring society). The unemployed actually receive more money here than those working for minimum wage -- and there are people making ends meet on less than that. Just for an example, in this country a single unemployed person receives about $24,000 U.S., all their rent paid and special grants for Christmas, home heating, children's clothes, television license, medical care, etc. While they are not rich, it's possible to do OK on that sort of money. We also have a huge problem with welfare fraud, but that's another issue.

But I do resent working my ass off to pay welfare for the very small percentage of people who NEVER look for work and who then panhandle, sometimes aggressively, all over my city. All working people do. A welfare system like ours isn't cheap, and those of us stuck in the middle feel every bite in the universal recession.

I told my son, "I think you can keep your money, because Daddy and me and everyone else who works pays some money to the government to help people with no money." Of course, he didn't really understand this. Also, he's a truthful kid and it wouldn't occur to him that someone else would say that they needed his pocket money if they didn't.

He said, "But you said it was my money to do what I wanted with and I want to give it to that man. We have loads of money and he has none." He looked horrified by my callous behaviour. I said, "OK." Fair enough -- it was his money and it was his right to do what he wanted with. I thought that maybe this guy (young, able-bodied, wearing brand-new Nikes and fashionable jeans) would be too embarrassed to take a euro coin from a small child. But no.

We walked on in shocked silence. I felt like a right-wing freak (I'm not; I vote centre-left) and a miser (Not! I give money to a registered charity every month by direct debit!). He couldn't believe that I would deny some of our loose change to someone who needed it. He continued to be a pious child from 19th century literature for the rest of the day. He found coins under the sofa and said, "I guess we don't really need these as they are under our sofa, can I give them next time I see a person with no money?"
I suppose I should be pleased that he's growing up to be a generous person (even if it's currently with money that I earn), but I am full of conflicted feelings about this whole thing.

Conflicted

Dear Conflicted,

I think it is fine that you feel conflicted. It is not a personality flaw, or evidence of an insufficiently well-worked-out political philosophy. The conflict you feel resides in the situation.

As you walk with your son and you see the beggar sitting on the ground outside the church with his paper cup, you feel the conflict between giving your son the freedom to do as he wishes and the desire to instruct him in the ways of the world. You feel the conflict between what you would like him to understand and what he is capable of understanding. You feel the conflict between the actions you take routinely to alleviate poverty and the clear evidence in front of you that poverty persists. You feel the conflict, also, between how you would like to appear to others and how you would like to appear to your son. He runs the danger of innocently embarrassing you. In keeping your word to your son, you may appear to condone an action that politically you do not approve of.

You cannot change what your son feels. He feels simple compassion and the desire to give. You cannot change the fact that this beggar appeared before you. You cannot change the fact that certain policies exist. You may work toward change, but right now, this is the situation.

We live in a complicated economic and social world full of jokes (yes, jokes: cosmic jokes) and paradox and contradiction. An extremist, or a purist, can always criticize us for our failure to adhere to orthodoxy. Our defense must be that the world itself is complex and full of contradiction. Our defense must also be that we are individuals, and we retain the right to make the best choice we can at the time. We retain the right to be wrong on occasion. We claim the right to be who we are. We do not claim to be perfect.

Your son is a charming young boy. He is not an economic theorist and he is not standing for Parliament. He is a 6-year-old who responds to the world in front of him. Seen in that light, a moment of conflict might be transformed into a moment of grace. Your son might give his money to the beggar and that would be that. You would feel all these conflicts but not be compelled to fix them.

Given all that we know of history, given all the failures of grand systems and utopian ideas whether they be religious or political or economic, we try to live in the world as it is and we try to keep our balance. We sometimes give money and sometimes do not. We may give too much or too little or none at all.

We are just people getting through life the best we know how. There are times when that has to be enough. This is one of those times.

Utrecht
12-01-2008, 11:02 PM
My oldest daughter is saving up for more Webkins. Her room is going to be over run by them come Christmas time. She likes to go online with the code that comes with each animal. I don't think she'd want them otherwise.

As for the commercials, my kids know that we can't have everything we see on tv. And they are ok with that.

Damn things are taking over my house too.

But I will say, that I do like them - the online component has a responsability element, a budgeting element (need x number of webkin gold to afford the newest outfits) - so I am cool with it.