How have your views changed over the last four years

[Atticus_of_Amber]

The latest board migration has made me reflective about how I and others have changed over the last four years since I started posting on the old Nutkinland. That and the rather disturbing fact that recently I've found myself agreeing with Stannis a hell of a lot.

When I started posting here I was incredibly annoyed and upset by the US's plans to invade Iraq. At the time I would have said that was the result of:
(a) a commitment to international law;
(b) the case for invading Iraq being crazy;
(c) a profound distrust of the competence and good intentions of the Bush administration;
(d) a deep suspicion of the seriousness of the threat of Islamic terrorism (more people killed on US roads in 2001 than on 9/11, etc) and the "war on terror"; and
(e) my belief that total global dominance by any one power, in this case the USA, was a bad thing and that that was the major threat to international peace and security in our time.

Looking back, I still subscribe to (b) and (c). But I'm no longer so sure of (a), (d) and (e).

Islamic terrorism: Here I think the Right (Stannis, Scut, et al) got it right and I got it wrong. Islamic terrorism IS the biggest threat to western civilization in modern times. The threat is not, as I used to think, overrated. Here, I've been convinced by Sam Harris that religious fundamentalism, and Islam in particular, is a huge threat to the achievements of the enlightenment. It's a matter of profound embarrassment to me that the threat of Islam to Enlightenment civilization was identified by the Christian right (who are themselves a threat to that civilization, though a lesser one) well before it was identified by most secular liberals. In my defence, all I can say is that the idea of actually, seriously believing in a religion, in the way the 9/11 hijackers did, is something I find very hard to imagine. It's this failure of imagination that has caused liberals to cast around for any other explanation - poverty, oppression of the Palestinians, alienation from the West, corporate imperialism - other than the one that fits: they mean what they say and they are doing it for the religious reasons they give. I now think fundamentalist Islam is a threat up there with militant communism - less that the Reds, in that Islam is yet to have nukes or the USSR's resources; but potentially more than the Reds, in that at least they were rational enough to be deterred by Mutually Assured Destruction.

US hegemony: Here I haven't changed my mind so much as gotten things in perspective. I still think that concentrations of power are, ipso facto, bad things. I still think that the US should learn the lessons of its own constitution and welcome and encourage a liberal democratic European Union to federalise and become a "check and balance" to its power. But in the short to medium term the urgent issue is Islamism. And Europe as a whole is currently still making the mistake on that that I made between 2003-2006. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Hitchens and others may change that. A few more Danish cartoon and Sir Salum Rushdie incidents may cause European liberals to wake up and smell the brimstone. But until then, I think I'm jsut going to have to grin and bear US hegemony.

International law: This one is difficult. I'm not sure what I think here. I think - perhaps the better word is hope - that the modern threats of Islamism can be dealt with within the framework of international law. If not, the precedents set could come back to bite us in the ass before too long. I'm just not as confident as I used to be that this hope is well placed.

As a result, I find myself in the position of agreeing with Scut, Stannis and even Izzy and Leo more than is comfortable. But that seems to be where my thinking is taking me.

So, where have everyone else's views and opinions changed int eh eyars in which they've been posting here?

[Brynja]

As time has gone on I have moved from absolutes to more nuanced standpoints. I post less about it now because I don't have the desire or discipline to write out my idea a la folks like SHARK, Bella, GG or Northcott. This is not to suggest moral relativism, but rather I am far more willing to entertain other view points.

[Pigs in Space]

Over the years...
- I am now less tolerant of religion in general.
- I am a lot more scared that people seem willing to give up freedoms to punish the few people that abuse them. (This is IMO due to media sensationalism).
- I have hardened me the fuck up
- And I'm now afraid to click links marked NWS.


I also wish I had more time to think about things and write gigantic posts. And go find my "Who nigga, I ain't readin' all that shit" macro.

[Atticus_of_Amber]

- I am now less tolerant of religion in general.
- I am a lot more scared that people seem willing to give up freedoms to punish the few people that abuse them. (This is IMO due to media sensationalism).
.

Many would say there is a contradiction there. I'm not so sure. I agree that we should be very careful in giving up freedoms - even as a means of fighting implacable enemies of liberalism like the various religious nutcases popping up all over the world. But its a nasty balance.

For example, the recent "Jihad" Jack Thomas case in the High Court of Australia has been a really difficult one for me...

[Brynja]

I have learned it is ok to say "fuck that this is too far" and it isn't something that needs to be apologized for.

I find the ongoing debate between the conservatives and liberals here fascinting. They at times can actually talk to each other but most times talk at or past each other. American politics in microcosim

[BOZ]

It's this failure of imagination that has caused liberals to cast around for any other explanation - poverty, oppression of the Palestinians, alienation from the West, corporate imperialism - other than the one that fits: they mean what they say and they are doing it for the religious reasons they give. I now think fundamentalist Islam is a threat up there with militant communism - less that the Reds, in that Islam is yet to have nukes or the USSR's resources; but potentially more than the Reds, in that at least they were rational enough to be deterred by Mutually Assured Destruction.

actually, to add my 2 cents, the reason the islamic fundies are more dangerous than the commies is not just their fanatical devotion to their religious beliefs (which, i will agree, is their primary reason for what they do), but that the reasons you list in the first sentence give justification for their religious reasons.

[Varaj]

I used to be a very vocal defender of Islam but the more I researched Islam the more I decided I was wrong.

My position on Iraq hasn't really changed. If we go in with the right plan it will be a good thing, if we fuck it up we will fuck it up in an amazing manner.

I've gotten less tolerant of people on the internet.

[Atticus_of_Amber]

actually, to add my 2 cents, the reason the islamic fundies are more dangerous than the commies is not just their fanatical devotion to their religious beliefs (which, i will agree, is their primary reason for what they do), but that the reasons you list in your first paragraph give justification for their religious reasons.

If by that you mean that the acknowledged injustices suffered by various Muslim populations (e.g. Palestinians) fuels the religious idiocy, I agree. indeed, the same could be said for how the the acknowledged injustices suffered by many worker and peasant populations (e.g. the Vietnamese) fuelled communist idiocy.

However, the nature of the ideology matters. The Tibettan people are suffering just as much (probably much, much, more) at the hands of the Chinese than the Palestinians are suffering at the hands of the Israelis. Yet when was the last Tibettan suicide bomber? (Though I've been expecting Vietnam-style Tibettan self-immolations any time now, I'll be incredibly surprised if they take anyone with them.)

(For that matter, when was the last Palestinian Christian suicide bomber?)

[Cyragnome]

How have your views changed over the last four years
Nope, I'm not really really convinced they have all that much...I mean, yeah, somethings have "nuanced" based on additional information, but I can't think of a major issue where I've flipped much.

Islamic terrorism: Here I think the Right (Stannis, Scut, et al) got it right and I got it wrong. Islamic terrorism IS the biggest threat to western civilization in modern times. The threat is not, as I used to think, overrated. Here, I've been convinced by Sam Harris that religious fundamentalism, and Islam in particular, is a huge threat to the achievements of the enlightenment. It's a matter of profound embarrassment to me that the threat of Islam to Enlightenment civilization was identified by the Christian right (who are themselves a threat to that civilization, though a lesser one) well before it was identified by most secular liberals. In my defence, all I can say is that the idea of actually, seriously believing in a religion, in the way the 9/11 hijackers did, is something I find very hard to imagine. It's this failure of imagination that has caused liberals to cast around for any other explanation - poverty, oppression of the Palestinians, alienation from the West, corporate imperialism - other than the one that fits: they mean what they say and they are doing it for the religious reasons they give. I now think fundamentalist Islam is a threat up there with militant communism - less that the Reds, in that Islam is yet to have nukes or the USSR's resources; but potentially more than the Reds, in that at least they were rational enough to be deterred by Mutually Assured Destruction.
I'm still not convinced of the "threat" of "Islamic Terrorism." I mean, yeah, it's there (and we shouldn't ignore the attacks and should defend ourselves), but I think the "Clash of Civilizations" angle is extremely overrated and overblown. I don't believe if we "lose this war" our women will be wearing burkas and there'll be beheadings of Christians on the streets of New York, particularly anytime in my life time or even my (hypothetical) children's. Nor do I believe that if we "fail now" that is assured to happen in the future. Generationally the West is likely screwed because we're not maintaining our populations, but that's a whole other issue (and yes, Islam is big in many of those areas where populations are booming).

[Utrecht]

In the spirit that AoA is demonstrating that his views do indeed evolve, I will respond.


1) My faith in the Bush administration has been ruined. I still beleive that Bush thinks he is going about things the right way, and that he heart is in the correct place. However, his administration has royally screwed things up.

I know that many folks go there much sooner than I do - and perhaps is it the thought that Bush really was trying to do the correct thing that caused the delay.

Note, that I do not think than anybody else would have done much better. It would simply be different. (Oh, and before anyone asks, if the vote for PResident was today, I would vote for Hillary)

2) Iraq, I still believe that this was the correct thing to do - something has to be done to drag that region into the modern era socially, and I still think that replacing Saddam to be a good thing. Again, we fucked it up. However, on the plus side - Afghanistan is looking OK (not solid) but OK - and given the history of that region, OK is near to a miracle

3) Economic Globalization - still a big supporter - wish it would go quicker.

4) Faith in Mexico has dropped - really thought that Fox and Bush would get something productive done - both got distracted

5) Green Movement - I have moved on this one - While I am not convinced of the "fact" that climate change is attributable to man (or at least the majority of it) I beleive that achieving a carbon neutral approach is a pretty good thing - and while I shudder at the idea that every one and everything is green (at least according to advertising) I like the idea that people are considering it. (Kyoto is still a dumb treaty and the US was correct in shitting on it)

6) Islamic Fundamentalism - I too was doubtfull of its true danger to Modern Society - but given the level of zealotry and access to WMDs something bad will happen - and I wish Europe would better realize it. After All 9/11 and Madrid won't be the last ones and we need be actively working against it (and that includes the House of Saud)

I am sure there are others...

[Utrecht]

If by that you mean that the acknowledged injustices suffered by various Muslim populations (e.g. Palestinians) fuels the religious idiocy, I agree. indeed, the same could be said for how the the acknowledged injustices suffered by many worker and peasant populations (e.g. the Vietnamese) fuelled communist idiocy....


....However, the nature of the ideology matters. The Tibettan people are suffering just as much (probably much, much, more) at the hands of the Chinese than the Palestinians are suffering at the hands of the Israelis.

I realize that this was not the exact point of the thread - but this seemingly romantized view of the Palestines always confuses me? Sure the Israelis have done shitty things to them - but Palestines have done as much (if not more back to the Isrealis) and the Palestings have donve even worse to each other - but it always seems to come back to the EVIL JEWS!!!!

Now I agree that it is being spun in the Islamic world as if the Israelis are doing all the bad (hell people apparently beleive that jews do make bread out of the blood of young Palestines) - but it is fucking wrong.....

[shabois]

As a home owner and expectant father my views have grown stronger to fair tax. I have strengthened my views as a libertarian; I am very pro individula rights in most cases and anti the government stealing more of my money. Yes i call it stealing because of their gross lack of responsibility with how they manage our money.

[Atticus_of_Amber]

I realize that this was not the exact point of the thread - but this seemingly romantized view of the Palestines always confuses me? Sure the Israelis have done shitty things to them - but Palestines have done as much (if not more back to the Isrealis) and the Palestings have donve even worse to each other - but it always seems to come back to the EVIL JEWS!!!!

Now I agree that it is being spun in the Islamic world as if the Israelis are doing all the bad (hell people apparently beleive that jews do make bread out of the blood of young Palestines) - but it is fucking wrong.....

Oh, I agree that the Palestinians are nuts, who's behaviour has generally been far worse than Israel's. But the "original sin" here *is* with Israel: why should the Palestinian people have had to pay with land for the sins of Europeans? Not that there's anything we can do about that now. Israel is there and Israel and Palestine will have to find a way to live together.

[Utrecht]

Oh, I agree that the Palestinians are nuts, who's behaviour has generally been far worse than Israel's. But the "original sin" here *is* with Israel: why should the Palestinian people have had to pay with land for the sins of Europeans? Not that there's anything we can do about that now. Israel is there and Israel and Palestine will have to find a way to live together.


OK, then we are cool... Of course some folks may argue with your concept of where the "original sin" lies - but that gets to a great deal of the issue.

[Atticus_of_Amber]

OK, then we are cool... Of course some folks may argue with your concept of where the "original sin" lies - but that gets to a great deal of the issue.

I suppose where we do disagree is that I don't think its hypocritical or unfair or a double standard or anti-semetic to hold Israel to a higher standard than the Palestinians. Israel is a secular (mostly) liberal democracy. It damn well should be held to a higher standard than a bunch of refugees who've never had democratic self-government.

[GreyOne]

Oh, I agree that the Palestinians are nuts, who's behaviour has generally been far worse than Israel's. But the "original sin" here *is* with Israel: why should the Palestinian people have had to pay with land for the sins of Europeans? Not that there's anything we can do about that now. Israel is there and Israel and Palestine will have to find a way to live together.

There were Jews living there too. The Palestinians made their choices to not have their own homeland, three times.

[Morbidity]

Like Coop I have become increasingly concerned at a loss of civil liberties and the willingness of people to abandon those liberties because the government tells them it’s the only way to be safe.

I have become increasingly cynical at the manipulation by government of world events to their advantage and the frequent blatant disregard of facts.

I have become increasingly pessimistic that a solution to Israel/Palestine or the Islam terrorism issue exists.

I have become quite anti-Islam, to the extent where when I found out a friend was dating a Moslem boy I advised her against it on that basis alone.

I have become increasingly convinced that just because a freedom has been won, doesn’t mean I can take it for granted. I refer specifically here to the right for abortion, which I can now see being removed. I find this very scary and makes me wonder how bizarre the scenario in “A Handmaid’s Tale” really is … or if we’re just a major disaster away from it occurring.

[Atticus_of_Amber]

I have become increasingly convinced that just because a freedom has been won, doesn’t mean I can take it for granted. I refer specifically here to the right for abortion, which I can now see being removed. I find this very scary and makes me wonder how bizarre the scenario in “A Handmaid’s Tale” really is … or if we’re just a major disaster away from it occurring.

By "major disaster" I take it you mean the election of Tony Abbot as PM? :D

[mollygrue]

brynja said it well. willing to see the nuances is good phrasing.

re iraq--my views havnt changed much. I was at the candle light vigils and peace marches before the whole mess got started.-- Maybe because I am old enough to remember watching the vietnam debacle on the evening news every night for years. --maybe because i was befriended by an Iman, who tells me that he is horrified and sickened by what is being done in the name of his god. maybe because i have always thought fundamentalism of any kind was a very bad thing be it moslem or christian.

[TiQuinn]

Over the past four years, I think the only appreciable thing that has changed in my viewpoint has been the issue of tort reform and medical malpractice, mainly because during that period, I had a substantial life changing event that threw me into the heart of that morass of crap.

Before, I would've considered myself pro-tort reform. Now I think that's a trumped up and, frankly, a vicious, mean spirited nonsolution to a much larger problem that involves

- a lack of internal policing and enforcement of rules within the medical community.

- mismanaged insurance companies with no experience in the malpractice insurance industry and the exorbitant fees they charge as a result.

- the legal profession which has every incentive to keep things status quo.

[Maddman]

- I've become a complete supporter of socialized medicine. I don't know what kind of super-insurance all you rich republicans have, but my stepdad had to wait three fucking weeks to get the bleeding cancer on his back looked at, resulting in a year of chemo. I usually don't go to the doctor at all when I'm sick, because they can't see me for 3-4 days. In 3-4 days, either I'll feel better or I'll be in the hospital. Our system sucks and is horribly expensive. I'd love to see something to put the medical insurance companies out of the game.

- I've totally abandoned TV news. Its all pretty much shit. I get all my information off the internet these days, where I can debate and double-check things that sound fishy.

- I've gone from calling myself an independant to calling myself a Democrat. The Bush administration's abuses of liberty and war of aggresion have scared the hell out of me. I cannot imagine a circumstance where I would vote for a Republican for federal office. Okay, Ron Paul but he's not really going to be a candidate.

- I've become a stronger defender of social freedom, pretty much a libertarian where social issues and such are concerned. I don't want the government telling people how to live their lives. As such I'm staunchly against gun control, censorship, the war on drugs, and even seatbelt and helmet laws, while I'm strongly for abortion rights and gay marriage.

[Droid101]

I don't know what kind of super-insurance all you rich republicans have... I usually don't go to the doctor at all when I'm sick, because they can't see me for 3-4 days. In 3-4 days, either I'll feel better or I'll be in the hospital. Our system sucks and is horribly expensive. I'd love to see something to put the medical insurance companies out of the game.

You don't have walk-in clinics? Or family practice walk-ins? They can see you immediately if you go there. I don't understand your question at all.

[TiQuinn]

- I've become a complete supporter of socialized medicine. I don't know what kind of super-insurance all you rich republicans have, but my stepdad had to wait three fucking weeks to get the bleeding cancer on his back looked at, resulting in a year of chemo. I usually don't go to the doctor at all when I'm sick, because they can't see me for 3-4 days. In 3-4 days, either I'll feel better or I'll be in the hospital. Our system sucks and is horribly expensive. I'd love to see something to put the medical insurance companies out of the game.

Maybe if you moved out of the boonies and got a real job at a real company, you could get better insurance. :p

[Droid101]

Maybe if you moved out of the boonies and got a real job at a real company, you could get better insurance. :p

That too, bro. There's a ton of doctors, clinics, etc around here I can go to at any time and get seen immediately. Even when I didn't have insurance, I just had to pay a little more for the visit that time, but I was still seen within 20 minutes of arrival with no call-ahead.

[Limper]

I have no proof on hand but I'm guessing the issue Maddman is experiencing out in the sticks happens out in the sticks of countries with socialized medicine.

However I do think something needs to be done to fix our rather fucked up healthcare system.

[Droid101]

I have no proof on hand but I'm guessing the issue Maddman is experiencing out in the sticks happens out in the sticks of countries with socialized medicine.


Ding. Solution? Move!

[Northcott]

I have become increasingly convinced that just because a freedom has been won, doesn’t mean I can take it for granted. I refer specifically here to the right for abortion, which I can now see being removed. I find this very scary and makes me wonder how bizarre the scenario in “A Handmaid’s Tale” really is … or if we’re just a major disaster away from it occurring.

We're only ever a step away from things going to shit. That's why all those post-apocalyptic movies appeal to people so much; it's a safe look into a fearsome possibility. Look at the USA in the 1950's: prosperity out the wazoo, the leading world power, coming off the high of feeling like the big dogs in the world, rebuilding other nations -- and they still got caught up in the fear trap of McCarthyism.

Fear fucks people up when they let it rule them. The start to make decisions that remove individual accountability (for the target and themselves) based on gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, or political branding, rather than seeing other people as individuals.

Roosevelt had the right of it: Fear fear.

I have no proof on hand but I'm guessing the issue Maddman is experiencing out in the sticks happens out in the sticks of countries with socialized medicine.

I've heard that there's problems with healthcare out in the sticks around here, but my experience was the opposite. Mileage varies, I suppose. Thing is, once you get public healthcare, people's sense of entitlement leads them to believe that their problem trumps everybody else's, and so they (or their kin) should be seen now -- and if they aren't, the system is failing.

I watched one dude in an emergency ward throw a fucking hissy fit with the admissions nurse because his cut hand wasn't being seen to immediately. He'd been waiting a few hours. He, of course, completely ignored that there'd been an ugly string of car accidents and several critical care victims being rushed in that were taking up all the time of the attending physicians and nurses.



(a) a commitment to international law;
(b) the case for invading Iraq being crazy;
(c) a profound distrust of the competence and good intentions of the Bush administration;
(d) a deep suspicion of the seriousness of the threat of Islamic terrorism (more people killed on US roads in 2001 than on 9/11, etc) and the "war on terror"; and
(e) my belief that total global dominance by any one power, in this case the USA, was a bad thing and that that was the major threat to international peace and security in our time.

I think that B & C have borne out true.

I believe firmly in A. The only way to craft a just society is with just laws, that are held as applicable both by and to the highest of powers as they are the lowest. Xenophobia is no longer a tenable position for any nation or state -- the lines of seperation have become more blurred then they have been at any other time in our past. We are moving toward becoming a global society. With this in mind, creating an international framework for justice -- though difficult and bound to be filled with obstacles and errors -- is the only logical choice.

I believe that D was right. It doesn't mean that the stance was wrong several years ago, but rather that conditions have changed. Iraq provided a central nexus of rage and violence the likes of which we had not seen before. Afghanistan, in contrast, provided a sense of unity which was previously unseen. The Taliban succeeded in making even other Islamic factions twitch. They were condemned unanimously when they destroyed the ancient Buddhist statues. They were dismantled when they dared attack with armed force.

The threat was not nearly as massive then as it is now. Extremists thrive on fear, and that is exactly what they are being fed. The first goal in any long term war is to divide people, polarize them, and thus ensure that sedition from within is reduced in likelihood. To see their success in this, one has only to look at how many otherwise reasonable people have abandoned notions of individualism (while claiming they stand for individual liberty) in favour of labelling people of one stripe or another.

We see it in politics, we see it in religion, we see it in national identities. With the growing gap between rich and poor in industrialized nations, I'd imagine we'll see it develop further there, too.

It's a matter of profound embarrassment to me that the threat of Islam to Enlightenment civilization was identified by the Christian right (who are themselves a threat to that civilization, though a lesser one) well before it was identified by most secular liberals.

I think that's just as disingenious a stance as claiming that moderate religious thought enables murderous fundamentalism. It doesn't bear scrutiny. The Christian Right will tell you that any other religion or lack thereof is the enemy. It's easy to claim you're right when you make blanket statements about a massive population and then cherry-pick examples of ill behaviour. The Islamic fanatics do the same in pointing out how evil and corrupt the West is, and how Christianity is, in particular, at the root of it.

It's this failure of imagination that has caused liberals to cast around for any other explanation - poverty, oppression of the Palestinians, alienation from the West, corporate imperialism - other than the one that fits: they mean what they say and they are doing it for the religious reasons they give.

The implication is that the other reasons are not valid, only the one of theology that you claim. This is untrue.

All of the above reasons, and several more missed, play into the development of things. It is simplistic of anybody to claim that any development, whether political, theological, financial, or personal, can be removed from that equation.

I now think fundamentalist Islam is a threat up there with militant communism - less that the Reds, in that Islam is yet to have nukes or the USSR's resources; but potentially more than the Reds, in that at least they were rational enough to be deterred by Mutually Assured Destruction.

Throw in the notion that the Islamic Fundamentalists are extremely disorganized as a whole (though cunningly organized in small groups), and I'd agree with that entirely.


So, where have everyone else's views and opinions changed int eh eyars in which they've been posting here?

I'm currently wrestling with striking a balance between my increasingly libertarian sensibilities and my strong support for public institutions, such as education and healthcare. I firmly believe that ensuring a healthy, educated society has helped lead to my nation's prosperity, peace, and embracing of a quasi-functional multi-culturalism.

However, we've also crossed the line in several areas, imho. With the best of intentions, perhaps, but it remains that more harm than good has been done with certain legislations dealing with health and welfare. Cigarettes and alcohol are widely available, but a farmer who dared sell raw milk (legally, through a loophole in the law) was raided by health authorities utilizing a tactical strike team with automatic weapons and body armour. They confiscated his equipment for cheese-making and dairy production. It was like something out of 1984... or Brazil (the movie).

[Dr_Avalanche]

I've moved closer to libertarian views on many issues (or at least recognize the perspective). Civil rights issues is much higher on my list of priorities than it was four years ago.

I've become a drug liberal. :D

[Space Cadet B^3]

I um... well...

Hey, the space shuttle landed safely!

[Brynja]

And you all laughed when I called him a Jellyfish.

[Dacke]

I have become much more of a social libertarian, and moved a little to the right on economic issues.

On the social side, I think the government should not interfere with how people are running their lives. Legalize softer drugs (like cannabis), legalize prostitution, dismantle various government consumer monopolies (here in Sweden, we can only buy alcohol and pharmaceuticals in gov't stores), and stuff like that.

On the economic side, I like living in a welfare state. I like that the government provides higher education, a social security net, and the like. There are also some areas, such as supporting youth activities, where I on one hand think "This isn't something the gov't ought to be spending money on." However, some of these are of the "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" variety - for example, by supporting youth activities, many youngsters are brought into healthy environments and kept out of criminality, so the money spent there means you spend less money down the lane. I recognize that the gov't is wasting money in some areas (notably the ones where they shouldn't meddle), and if they stopped doing that we could lower taxes a bit. However, I do not see low tax as an overarching goal.

[Space Cadet B^3]

And you all laughed when I called him a Jellyfish.
Hell, even I laughed. Not that I see in any shape or form how this applies to my answer. YMMV.

[Brynja]

The point was you have no views, no convinction and thus no spine.

Jellyfish.

[Space Cadet B^3]

Just because I don't spend a lot of time posting my politics or religious views doesn't mean I don't have them.

I've learned a lot about my views from reading and posting online, there was once a time when I posted that I wanted guns to be outlawed, after having rational, intelligent discussions on the subject, I came to realize just how farcical my opinions were, and underwent a paradigm shift. I disagreed with the war in Iraq, but have unequivically supported the troops once combat was engaged. I also have the understanding that the U.S. is now obligated to finish their work over there because the instability caused by a premature withdrawal would be one of the worst things that region has suffered in a long, long time.

I think medicare coverage for senior citizens is a travesty, especially the prescription drug plans, many of which have a "doughnut hole" which forces people like my parents to pay all the costs for their prescriptions while they go from one benchmark amount to another.

I believe that most public assistance programs need to be retooled to promote training, and not just in a trade, but also in the skills these people seem to lack in managing their lives.

As a liberal, it might seem shocking to hear that I believe our defense spending needs to increase, especially in the area of troop readiness and expanding the size of our already overtaxed military.

I believe the U.S. is in danger of increasing anti-American sentiment by constantly butting in where they're not asked, and by ignoring the places in the world that are undergoing the worst problems. Several African hotspots come to mind.

I firmly believe that as an U.S. Citizen you lose your right to bitch if you fail to get off of your fat asses and vote. I've educated myself about the issues and candidates, and have voted in every primary and election I've been eligible to vote in since the mid 90s.

There's just a sampling of my spine. Agree or disagree you would do well to recognize that just because someone doesn't open their mouth on a subject, does not mean that they don't care, or don't know.

I know I've done a lot of damage to the respect people have had for me over the years, the only reason I'm still here is because I believe I have something to contribute to the forums. Whether you like me or not, I know that I have friends here.

For the first time in a long time I feel secure enough in myself to let bullshit like you spewed here today roll off my back. In other words, kindly fuck off.

[Brynja]

About fucking time.

You got off your fat ass, got annoyed and posted your thoughts.

I have been waiting for this for years.

[doc]

Learned one thing, keep my politics to myself, only place I need to concern myself is the voteing booth

[Maddman]

You don't have walk-in clinics? Or family practice walk-ins? They can see you immediately if you go there. I don't understand your question at all.

Clinics and so on have 3-4 days waiting on average. The only places that take walk ins are emergency rooms. I can't ever remember seeing a doctor on the same day I called.

And the solution is to move? Well I might do that someday, but should we just abandon everyone that doesn't live in a city?

[Droid101]

And the solution is to move? Well I might do that someday, but should we just abandon everyone that doesn't live in a city?

No, but if you're going to bitch about your problem specifically, then I'm going to provide you with a solution to your problem specifically.

Plus what doctor would want to live out there anyway? You can't MAKE a doctor choose to live in the boondocks.

[Brynja]

I dunno I have to wait to see my doctors. It is rare I can get seen right away. The only exception to this is my oncologist

[Varaj]

For urgent care, if I'm sick, I get same day appointments at my doctor's office. If it isn't urgent it depends on the type of doctor and the type of appointment. I don't know that any of that has to do with insurance.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

Over the past four years I have realized that the Right is just as full of shit as the Left, and that makes me very sad.

[Enk]

I've grown less tolerant of what I consider to be extremist opinions.

[NRG]

A lot of my opinions have hardened in place, confirmed by subsequent events. A few, however, have moved. I am less tolerant of monotheistic religions. I am more fixated on repairing our electoral system, particularly campaign finance.

I am happy to see the political spectrum beginning to shift, driven by the insanity and inanity of those currently in power. I am sad to see alarmist fear-mongering continuing to have such a dramatic effect on our electorate.

I am becoming ever more convinced that we are one terrorist attack away from a significant problem with our government. Given the advantage that those in power took after 9-11, what might they do in the wake of a much more serious attack? I don't know the answer to this question, but fear that answer significantly more than I fear being harmed by an actual terrorist attack.

NRG

[Northcott]

I am becoming ever more convinced that we are one terrorist attack away from a significant problem with our government. Given the advantage that those in power took after 9-11, what might they do in the wake of a much more serious attack? I don't know the answer to this question, but fear that answer significantly more than I fear being harmed by an actual terrorist attack.

Damn, man. Now that is a scary thought. :expressionless:

[Cyragnome]

Damn, man. Now that is a scary thought. :expressionless:
But he's not alone. Look at the hits we're taking at the hands of the PATRIOT Act, et.al. (regarding privacy, government data mining, access to library records, National Security Letters, warrantless wiretapping, et. al.) most things that the government has wanted for years but didn't have the votes to get passed under George HW Bush or Clinton without the terrorist attacks. Extrapolate that out passed another dangerous attack. The U.S. Government (and this doesn't rest solely on the Administration) has done more damage, IMO, to our Constitution than the terrorists could ever hope to accomplish in an attempt to gain something unattainable, absolute security. I don't feel the liberties we've lost are worth the perceived safety we've gotten. All from my perspective, IMO and all that jazz, mind you. :)

[Northcott]

I get all that, man, and I agree with what you're saying. I just hadn't yet extrapolated the idea of what happens to the frightened sheeple if there's another significant terrorist attack. Even a few small ones would send people off in panic mode, I think -- I perceive your nation as having embraced a culture of fear over the last six years, and that alone is scary enough. (FDR was as right as could be)

But another significant attack? Damn. The USA could become one scary-ass nation.

[Cyragnome]

I get all that, man, and I agree with what you're saying. I just hadn't yet extrapolated the idea of what happens to the frightened sheeple if there's another significant terrorist attack. Even a few small ones would send people off in panic mode, I think -- I perceive your nation as having embraced a culture of fear over the last six years, and that alone is scary enough. (FDR was as right as could be)

But another significant attack? Damn. The USA could become one scary-ass nation.
:thumbup: Cool (as in, I gets ya...I sees where you're comin' from, now...I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down, so to speak :) ).

[Northcott]

I remember those post-apocalyptic movies from back in the 70's and 80's. The best/worst part about the really good ones was the awful realization that we were just one bad day away from becoming a sci-fi movie. This gives me that same kind of feeling, save in a dystopian way.

[NRG]

But another significant attack? Damn. The USA could become one scary-ass nation.

The more alarmist elements on the left are eager to point out that a "continuity of government" program has already been put in place. Step one is to declare martial law. Obviously, the conditions under which such a program would be brought into play are in question. That said, ask Dick Cheney whether he thinks the current administration (or he personally) should have more power to "keep us safe".

NRG

[Andreas]

Over the last few years i think i got really fessed up with the whole politic "business".

Yesterday i was arguing with a co-worker whether some general useful project could be realized as planed and after a few minutes i realized i don´t give it a snowballs chance in hell just because the "useful" approach to solving the the problem has no big lobby and therefor can´t buy any politicians to steer the project their way.

A few minutes of thinking later i got really depressed as i realized in all likelihood i am right with my assessment of the situation.

[bondetamp]

I've become less tolerant of thread necromancy. :cool:

As for other stuff, I still find the perceived threat of Islam as laughable as I find the people who fear that alleged threat.

I now believe we should legalize more or less all recreational drugs as I can't easilly see what good the bans or the War on drugs, for that matter, do to anyone.

I've become a firmer social liberal and more secure in my stance on environmentalism.

[Hatter]

I've become less economically conservative after witnessing the disastrous results of deregulation on the banking industry.

[hobbiteer]

Over the past four years I have undergone a significant personal change. I used to stress about everything my friends did or decided and it caused me physical problems. I now only worry about what I can control. It has led me to be a happier and more enjoyable person.

For political and religious views

I still stand that religious fundamentalism is the cause of everything bad. It was true in the 13th century, it's true now.

I now support gay marriage, legalization of prostitution, and drugs.

I am still firm in that the American government needs a re-org. I see the original government from the constitution as a solid government and would love to just revert back to that.

Privacy and individual rights I am all about.

I believe that people should be able to own automatic weapons. Hell, they should be able to own anything they want. Tanks, planes, nukes, etc.

I still believe Islam is a religion of peace.

I hate the fucking TSA and the scanners at airports.

I no longer watch tv for news and have issues with most "news" networks.

Also, I tend to curse quite frequently and have issues with people who use incorrect grammar.