I need to build a computer

[obryn]

Well, okay, I don't actually NEED to, but it'd be nice to.

My main desktop rig bit it last night. Either the graphics card (probably) or the ATI chipset (less likely, but its fan has been dying) is going nuts. I'm getting vertical or horizontal bands of garbage data on my display. Also, I can't boot into Windows normally; I need to boot into Safe mode - my guess is on account of drivers for the aforementioned video card.

I could just get a new graphics card, but the truth is I've had this system for several years already, and it's time to upgrade. I wanted to wait for Elder Scrolls V, but I don't think that'll happen.

Here's what I have so far. I don't need a new display, mouse, keyboard, or printer. I'm looking at case (I have grown to hate mine), mobo, CPU, memory, OS, and a new hard drive for good measure.

I've been away from the rodeo for a bit now, and haven't kept up, so I went with an older buying guide and modified it based on what I saw on Newegg.

Case/PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156062

(Yep, I know that another PSU may be a better buy, but this one's gotten good reviews so far, and I tend to trust Newegg reviewers).

Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131333
(I like ASUS and this one looks dandy, with PCI-E 2.0)

Memory:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145177
(Slower than my mobo's max, but with good timing. Also dirt-cheap after rebate.)

Hard Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152096
meh.

Processor:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036
This one seems like the current price/performance sweet spot.

OS: Vista SP1. Dumb question - I would want 64-bit, right? Or wrong?

Graphics Card: This is my main sticking point. Since my monitor can only go to 1280x1024, I'm thinking I could save some money - but I still want a good one. I prefer nVidia for driver reasons, but I'm willing to switch teams if necessary. I can get a 260-series for $215 right now, but I don't know if that would be wasted power or not.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229


So far, pre-gfx, I am looking at about $600 on the nose. I'd like to spend under $800. Preferably, even less than that.

Suggestions, anyone?

-O

[Yig]

OS: Vista SP1. Dumb question - I would want 64-bit, right? Or wrong?


If you only have 2 GB of RAM, go with 32. If you have 4 GB or more, go with 64.

32 only support up to 3.3 GB of RAM.

As for the vidcard, since you're getting Vista, get a least a GeForce 8 since they support DX 10.

[obryn]

If you only have 2 GB of RAM, go with 32. If you have 4 GB or more, go with 64.

32 only support up to 3.3 GB of RAM.

As for the vidcard, since you're getting Vista, get a least a GeForce 8 since they support DX 10.
I'm looking at the 9 series, mostly. I can shave about $100 off and still get a good DX10 card.

And what would I gain or lose with 64-bit? I don't plan on getting 4gb anytime soon...

-O

[Schizm]

not a lot, yet. 64-bit version apps are still fairly rare, and a lot of companys don't support their software (though it runs perfectly fine) in a 64bit environment.

[Yig]

I'm looking at the 9 series, mostly. I can shave about $100 off and still get a good DX10 card.

And what would I gain or lose with 64-bit? I don't plan on getting 4gb anytime soon...

-O

Well, when doing nothing, my Vista use between 1.2 and 1.3 GB of RAM...

So yeah, 4 GB should be the bare minimum in a modern computer.

And if I'm not mistaken, 64 bits apps should run a bit fater than a 32 one. Should.

My laptop came with Vista Ultimate 64...

[PWD]

64-bit vista drivers aren't quite the suicide-inducing mess they once were, but there are still a whole lot of incomplete driver projects with the various product manufacturers when it comes to 64-bit.

Something to research in advance, given you're already hand-picking your components.

[obryn]

64-bit vista drivers aren't quite the suicide-inducing mess they once were, but there are still a whole lot of incomplete driver projects with the various product manufacturers when it comes to 64-bit.

Something to research in advance, given you're already hand-picking your components.
It looks like there's drivers for everything I'd currently need, including my Hauppage WinTV PVR150 - which was really the only one I was worried about.

It also looks like all the games I care about would work - which right now amounts to NWN2 and Oblivion and whatever else I'd get down the road.

Memory-wise, I swapped to this...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184

It's still only 800 MHz, but the faster speeds are just a bit beyond my price point...

-O

[obryn]

Well, I switched some stuff around, and ordered it tonight!

(1) I switched to 64-bit Vista after checking out all the stuff I needed.

(2) I switched to somewhat less expensive RAM, but got 4gb of it, like I posted above. Still 800MHz, but with slower timings. Still, this is about the easiest part of the whole computer to upgrade when 1200 MHz RAM gets cheaper.

(3) I changed to the PSU-less version of the case.

(4) In the interests of knocking the best shit possible out of my 1280x1024 monitor, and kicking Oblivion's ass some more, I upgraded to a new-generation GeForce GTX260 or whatever it's called.

(5) I upgraded to a 575W PSU with the required 2 6-pin PCI-E plugs.

After rebates, it's about $830 shipped. More than I had intended to spend, but I want this to last longer than 6 months...

-O

[Pigs in Space]

Also, people will buy your old shit on ebay, just not for much.

[AZRogue]

Congrats, Obryn! I've always had good luck with Newegg.

Myself, I've been thinking of a second machine, as well. I'm not thinking Vista, though. I think I'd like a UNIX/LINUX machine, since I've never had one and I'd like something I could tinker with if the mood strikes. Last time I looked at linux with more than just a glance, I got lost in the sheer number of variations.

Anyone know anything about Unix or Linux? Would an average spec'd machine do fine, or is there something in particular you want to splurge on (such as RAM)? I already have an 850w power supply, an extra 22 lcd monitor, and a Radeon X1850 graphics card on the shelf. I figured I'd use them and just get a case, mobo, chip, ram, dvd burner, and a pair of drives.

[Dr_Avalanche]

My experience with Ubuntu has been that if you can run Windows XP on the machine to begin with, it will run like the wind with Ubuntu. You don't need extra of anything. However, if you plan to use the computer for any particular purposes, you might want to compensate for those, whatever it might be.

[obryn]

I have only limited experience with Ubuntu, but I've been running a dual-boot laptop for a few years. Usually, I just run Windows because Ubuntu hates my laptop's ATI Radeon Mobility. From what I understand from a few friends, nVidia drivers just work better with Ubuntu.

For me, it runs faster for a lot of stuff - but slower on anything which requires frequent screen updates, like scrolling through a PDF or long comment thread.

My biggest issue with Ubuntu has been that it's eaten itself at least four different times. Something always seems to crash unrecoverably, and the whole partition or OS gets shot. I end up needing to reinstall it every few months, which is not exactly a bundle of fun.

I hope to see better performance when I install it for dual boot on my new PC. :)

-O

[Dr_Avalanche]

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily recommend Ubuntu, it's just the linux distro I have first hand experience with.

[obryn]

Yeah, I wouldn't necessarily recommend Ubuntu, it's just the linux distro I have first hand experience with.
I think it's a good distro, overall. It comes closest among Linux distro's to actually being usable for Mom & Pop right out of the box. It's not completely there - you need to go through a lot of terminal commands to get things like most audio and video playback - but the developers have actually paid attention to the user interface and end-user experience.

-O

[obryn]

Oh, and Irony Update:

My old computer started working again, spontaneously. grrrr....

(And so did my car's supposedly burnt-out headlight. It's been a weird weekend. I blame pixies.)

-O

[obryn]

My case arrived last night, and it's taunting me. "Look at how shiny I am, Bill! Look at how well everything fits together!"

The rest of the parts will be here today! Yay!!

-O

[PWD]

Building computers is fun. Mine works like a dream and yet I still envy you the opportunity to build another.

[obryn]

Building computers is fun. Mine works like a dream and yet I still envy you the opportunity to build another.
I would build one a month, if I had the chance. And the money. :)

-O

[Name Lips]

I always envied the guys whose whole job is to get the latest, up-to-date parts and build gaming computers out of them, and then review them for magazines.

[PWD]

I would build one a month, if I had the chance. And the money. :)

-O

My motherboard died a month or so back, which I parlayed into a motherboard upgrade, a blu-ray writer, a new sound card, an n52te, and some other toys, but it's just not the same as building new.

Granted, my computer is so good I don't really need a new one, but I often wish I had dumb friends close so I could build theirs for them.

[Caliphis]

But then you would have to deal with having dumb friends near by.

[PWD]

But then you would have to deal with having dumb friends near by.

Dumb friends nearby are easier to provide tech support for than dumb inlaws who live hours away...

[Alpha Ralpha]

Building computers is fun. Mine works like a dream and yet I still envy you the opportunity to build another.

yeppers, if i had more ability with metal working/plastic working I would have become a custom PC builder a long time ago. Its just fun to do and get it working.

[obryn]

On my new com-puu-ter

On my new com-puu-ter

woohoo!

-O

[Caliphis]

Dumb friends nearby are easier to provide tech support for than dumb inlaws who live hours away...

Tell the dumb in-laws if they want you to help fix their computer problems then they should bring the machine to you, along with a six pack.

[Alpha Ralpha]

On my new com-puu-ter

On my new com-puu-ter

woohoo!

-O

heh, grats and enjoy!

[PWD]

Tell the dumb in-laws if they want you to help fix their computer problems then they should bring the machine to you, along with a six pack.

But then I have dumb inlaws in my house. That's worse than roaches.

[obryn]

heh, grats and enjoy!
Thanks :)

After a little insane problem where Vista installation wouldn't begin as long as my keyboard was plugged into a PS2 port (yeah, I dunno), it installed smoothly and everything is going wonderfully!

I installed Oblivion. Yeah, it's old, but it's still awesome. I also spent a few hours throwing in OOO, Qarl's Texture Pak 3, and about a billion other enhancements. I started it up, put on HDR light, moved all the sliders to max and all the switches to ON... and it runs like a goddamn dream. High framerates even in areas with tons of grass.

-O

[Name Lips]

But then I have dumb inlaws in my house. That's worse than roaches.

Remember to leave problems unfixed, and charge the six-pack every time they bring it back.

Free beer, forever.

[obryn]

Remember to leave problems unfixed, and charge the six-pack every time they bring it back.

Free beer, forever.
Shhhhh!

If you give away all our secrets, the free beer will dry up!

-O

[SpikeyFreak]

32 only support up to 3.3 GB of RAM.
Just because you put so specific a number, the amount of RAM you can use in a 32-bit system depends on the hardware you have. If you have 2 video cards, a RAID controller, and a nice sound card, you're going to get let RAM than if you have none of that.

--1 Gigger Spikey

[PWD]

Just because you put so specific a number, the amount of RAM you can use in a 32-bit system depends on the hardware you have. If you have 2 video cards, a RAID controller, and a nice sound card, you're going to get let RAM than if you have none of that.

--1 Gigger Spikey

This.

Take the maximum addressable amount 32bits can span, and start deducting for all the hardware you need to address, the video ram you have, all that stuff.

Take a 4Gb machine, throw in one 8800GTX 768Mb card. Measure RAM. Then add a second 8800GTX and go SLI. Measure RAM.

Curse and go 64bit.

[Varaj]

This.

Take the maximum addressable amount 32bits can span, and start deducting for all the hardware you need to address, the video ram you have, all that stuff.

Take a 4Gb machine, throw in one 8800GTX 768Mb card. Measure RAM. Then add a second 8800GTX and go SLI. Measure RAM.

Curse and go 64bit.

Word to the mutherfucking kay.

[obryn]

This.

Take the maximum addressable amount 32bits can span, and start deducting for all the hardware you need to address, the video ram you have, all that stuff.

Take a 4Gb machine, throw in one 8800GTX 768Mb card. Measure RAM. Then add a second 8800GTX and go SLI. Measure RAM.

Curse and go 64bit.
I am not regretting 64 bit even one tiny little bit (har!). A year ago, I would have had compatibility issues, maybe. Now, I'm having none.

The only thing that doesn't work so far is my Hauppage WinTV PVR-150, and I'm still of the opinion that this is my fault, not the OS's. (Even if it's not, I really got the card for a MythTV box, and now that I have 90% of an old PC laying around, I need to get around to that.)

-O

[Schizm]

Well, okay, I don't actually NEED to, but it'd be nice to.

-O


ok, using obryn's start as a guideline to build my own new comp here - mine has started having major graphical issues where the display drivers will crash out, and drives have died, and in general every part has been replaced at one point or another with little success of making it work right. it's time for this frankencomp to go into that long night.

So, lets start building..

[obryn]

Well, in the end, I got...

(1) ASUS P5QSE motherboard. This is a matter of preference, but don't skimp. If you'd rather have an SLI- or Crossfire-Capable motherboard, choose accordingly, because the Intel chipset can't handle either and it only has one PCI-E x16 2.0 slot. I love this motherboard for ExpressGate and all the little things ASUS does to make things easy on you. It's fanless, too, so quieter than some. Downside: Ubuntu doesn't play well with it.

(2) Intel Core2Duo E8500. I have nothing bad to say about the processor. It's incredible price/performance. If you want quad-core, there's one for about the same price at Newegg. It's only hitting 5.7 WEI, though, and everything else I have is 5.9.

(3) GeForce GTX260. I love this graphics card. It's enormous, so make sure your case can handle it. I lost some hard drive bays, but it otherwise fits.

(4) Corsair 800MHz DDR2 RAM, 4GB. No complaints whatsoever. Great memory, and getting a 5.9 on WEI.

(5) RaidMAX Smilodon, PSU-less version - It's a big, heavy, shiny case. It's got tons of room, even if my graphics card is kinda squished. Everything is tool-less other than motherboard, PSU, and card installation. Even though this thing has 4 fans, it's pretty darn quiet; I only hear my CPU fan (see below). I like it, but cases are a matter of taste.

(6) Rosewill Stallion PSU, 500W. Again, if you're going SLI or crossfire, upgrade this. Otherwise, it suits my purposes just fine.

(7) A Thermaltake "Quiet" cooler, with pipes and a big fan, that I grabbed from a local shop. I hate this thing, but with ASUS's fan control software, it's okay. It's a dustbuster at full speeds. I used Ceramique as the thermal paste. The stock Intel one is kinda garbage, but should be okay at stock speeds, I think. I have no idea how loud it is, though.

(8) Samsung 320gb hard drive. No complaints, nice and cheap.

(9) Vista 64-bit. Go this route, unless you have some seriously old legacy hardware, or need 16-bit programs.

I'm able to run Crysis Warhead at 1280x1024 (my monitor's resolution), all settings except Sound set to Enthusiast (highest possible), with 2xAA, and get 27-30 FPS. I'm running Oblivion modded out with the best texture packs I could find at 60+ FPS. It chews up NWN2 and laughs. Basically, it destroys any game out today.

I hope this helps!

-O

[Schizm]

ok, in the course of building I decided to just look at pre-build PC's in my price-range for gaming.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883229049

The power supply is a weak point, but the rest of it looks fairly decent. expandable/upgradeable, (first would be psu, then vid card). Given that I basically need everything (I don't even have functioning optical drives in my PC any more) this doesn't seem like too bad a deal. Anyone have thoughts?

[obryn]

Have you priced out how much this would be, piecemeal?

I think that graphics card is a bit on the low-middle end.

-O

[Schizm]

ok, pieceing out the system I was looking at above:

180 OS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116493 :Vista Ultimate, OEM. actually cheaper than the OEM for home premium, and direct OS, not an upgrade.

84$ Processor: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103233 3ghz AMD dual core processor.

10$ Heatsing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103050 : assuming that the product I was looking at had the cheapest heat sink it could get away with, so I went with a coolermaster

87$ Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131246 : note, board has horrible reviews. definite con. repeated problems with sound, and heat is apparently an issue.

68$ Ram (2gb stick x2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104042 went with kingston ram, same clock speed as listed on the bundle. no reviews, :shrug:

65$ Graphics Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378 :note, gets sparkling reviews for a midrange graphics card.

80$ Hard Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320 : went western digital, though there are slightly cheaper choices, I've always had a good deal of luck with WD. Anyone have experience with Seagate, as I haven't in several years? also considering http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288 at a 75$ price.

24$ dvd burner http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106263 liteon. nuff said. well, not quite - sata is at the same price point as ide for optical drives now, so I'd probably rather go that route (I hate ribbons).

18$ second optical, dvd-rom. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106261 also liteon. also sata.

80$ case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144197 looks fairly decent, mostly tools free (a definite plus, in my book) decent reviews. I'm not attached.

20$ psu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148033 figure they'd use the same manufacturer psu as the case. so cheap.

so.. end total.. not counting the free mouse and keyboard the prebuilt comes with (bfd, but so what? my keyboard and trackball are fine).

716$ before the shipping costs. some of the shit ships for free, some doesn't. Would probably end up being more than the 30 bones shipping for the prebuilt.

time to see if I can build a better system for comparable costs.

[Schizm]

to put not to fine a point on it, I'm warned off the motherboard from that system I looked at by the consistency of poor reviews on Newegg.

Ok, so right now I'm researching dual core AMD processors, which seem to be at much lower price point than intel dual core, or both amd and intel quad cores.

doing some serious research right now on the whole thing, though finding solid RECENT articles is proving to be a bit of a bitch. reading some basic buyers guides and stress tests at tom's hardware right now.

edit: ok, toms' hardware 2008 cpu comparison makes it pretty clear that the intel core duo 2 processors really outperform amd in every way, and are clearly the way to go right now.

direct link to processor benchmark comparison charts from tom's hardware: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/benchmarks,31.html


ok, given the benchmarking differences using crysis as a graphical/gamingcomparison, the e8500 vs the e8400 as a fifteen dollar price differential over the matter of 3.7 fps.

the e8500 works out to about $1.335 / fps, where the e8400 works out to about $1.24 / fps. may not seem like much, but the price differential there is useful when you're on a serious budget, and So I'm gonna have to call the e8400 the pp sweet spot, and go with that (yeah, i'm cheap. :o )

since I'm planning on using the desktop for primarily gaming, I focused on crysis FPS, rather than some of their other benchmarks. I realize that the 8500 is slightly faster ( .166 ghz, to be precise) and that makes a long term difference, but the 8400 will suit my needs just as well, I'm betting. Power consumption will be roughly the same, so there won't be much in the way of noticeable difference. I'm also choosing to focus on crysis as a real game, rather than 3d vantage mark.

[PWD]

dual core AMD processors, which seem to be at much lower price point than intel dual core

With good reason. Stay away.

[Schizm]

With good reason. Stay away.

yup. see the above edited post, and you'll note my conclusions on price vs. performance, and AMD doesn't even come close to ranking.

Now, moving on to motherboards. Newegg currently has a bundle deal with this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188024

gonna hve to investigate this board now. do I need all the features? no. FIrewire, Raid capability? sure as fuck no.

ok, noting theprice differential in SLI capable motherboards and knowing my own personal tendancies... I should probably follow obryn's lead and go for the same asus p5ql. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131329. price is right at 84.99.

Now, on to graphics, Case, and power supply.

[Schizm]

ok, solid looking graphics for midrange, good price point:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121242

Asus Geforce 9600 gt, 512 ram (ddr3, runs on a 256bit interface). 100$.

beats comparable evga cards in core clock speed, price, and reviews.

-------------

edit: goddamnit obryn, you're making me feel like a copy cat. the smilodon there you've got? looks like a solid quality deal on a case that seems easy to work in, rather than like a royal pain in the ass.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156062

100$ with a 500w power supply in it. I need to do some arithmatic here, see if this psu will work with everything i'm sticking in here, but I think it's probably functional.

-----------------------
proposed setup, runs 727$, will most likely run the things I give a rat's ass about (WoW, Starcraft 2, GTA4, Spore, Sins of a Solar Empire) quite nicely. price is pre-mail in rebates.

110$ OS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488 (Vista Home Premium, OEM)
85$ Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131329 (asus P5QL)
165$ Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037 (3.0ghz intel core 2 duo)
100$ Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121242 (asus geforce 9600 512mb ram @256)
68$ RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104042 (2x 2gb sticks)
75$ Hard Disk http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288 (500gb sata 7200 rpm, seagate)
24$ DVD-R/W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106263 (liteon, sata)
100$ Case/psu http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156062

upgrade points for future consideration: power supply is up first. ram is only 800mhz. video card has significant room for improvement, as does the motherboard if I chose to move forward to crossfire or SLI.

[obryn]

Just as a quick question, is it worth it to you to shave $80 off Vista to get the OEM Home Premium? You might be able to upgrade some components pretty well that way, like perhaps upgrading the processor or getting a higher-end graphics card. :)

I've found that Home Premium suits my needs perfectly well, and I expect Windows 7 will be out by the time I'm looking at upgrading next time.

Also, I'm glad you like the case! As I mentioned, I have had zero problems with it, but it's bright enough that I'm glad I have an office and don't have to keep it in my bedroom. It even fits my gargantuan GTX260... although a few hard drive ports get blocked as a result. :)

EDIT: If you're looking at major system upgrades like a motherboard (which, honestly, I don't think you'll need to do), you might need the non-OEM version. That'll require an OS reinstall, without a doubt. Personally, I'd use the $80 to improve the hardware and go with OEM, but that's always been my bias.

-O

[Schizm]

Just as a quick question, is it worth it to you to shave $80 off Vista to get the OEM Home Premium? You might be able to upgrade some components pretty well that way, like perhaps upgrading the processor or getting a higher-end graphics card. :)
-O

yeah, I just didn't seen an OEM of home premium that wasn't an upgrade disk last night. I've got no real need for ultimate, honestly. the only thing packaged on the disk that I would really have a serious need for is windows mobile device center, and I can do a free download of that, so it's not worth $80.

aaah, here it is.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488. 110$. I musta been blind last night. or exhausted.

Yeah, I'm looking at OEM because a mobo upgrade is generally FAR outside the realm of probability for me, would come dead last. and you're right, that video card is a flippin MONSTER. HUGE. also would push the whole rig out of my price range right now. gonna look for something that a little higher end to change the difference up, though.

ok, so rather than going with obryn's 300$ monster, looking at:

160$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130339 EVGA geforce 9800 GTX(G92) 512MB 256-bit. would stress my proposed power supply a bit, maybe I can tweak the whole thing around based there...

ok, so 585w PSU for 30$, decent newegg reviews, though I have no idea on the brand: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339001

case w/o psu 80$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156063 so not bad. still a net savings of 20$.

guess I need to update that links post :p

[Schizm]

ok, better job this time:

final proposed setup, runs $797, will most likely run the things I give a rat's ass about (WoW, Starcraft 2, GTA4, Spore, Sins of a Solar Empire) quite nicely. price is pre-mail in rebates.

110$ OS http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116488 (Vista Home Premium, OEM)
85$ Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131329 (asus P5QL)
165$ Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115037 (3.0ghz intel core 2 duo)
160$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130339 (EVGA geforce 9800 GFX 512 @ 256)
68$ RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104042 (2x 2gb sticks @800)
75$ Hard Disk http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288 (500gb sata 7200 rpm, seagate)
24$ DVD-R/W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106263 (liteon, sata)
80$ Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156063 (Raidmax Smilodon - looks easy to work in)
30$ PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817339001 (585w)

[obryn]

I think that looks like a winner, there. The 9800 will give you a lot more mileage. If only it had 1gb memory!. :)

(And I got the graphics card for $215 after rebate, FWIW :))

As for the power demands, I'd check this site... It's VERY helpful.

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

edit: I estimate your power requirements at 325W @ 90% load, or 366W @ 100% load.

-O

[Schizm]

I think that looks like a winner, there. The 9800 will give you a lot more mileage. If only it had 1gb memory!. :)

PWD, Spikey? opinions?

As for the power demands, I'd check this site... It's VERY helpful.

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

-O

sweet utility there.

and yes, I'm quite comfortably inside the power envelope I need then, with room to go up more drives / ram As I want to throw that in.

[obryn]

PWD, Spikey? opinions?
I only say this about memory because - while it wasn't important - for games with huge textures like Crysis, it can make a significant difference for performance.

It's all about the texture sizes. It used to be that even 512 mb was extravagant, but games nowadays are pushing that envelope.

Still, 512 is quite reasonable. I'd only upgrade if it's quite affordable, like within $15-$20. (Mine has 896, which is still more than enough.)

-O

[PWD]

Gross amount of video memory is important of course, but at least as important is the interface by which its connected. The broader the highway, the happier you'll be in any gaming situation.

If I could choose a 512-bit interface to 512Mb of video ram versus a 256-bit interface to 1024Mb of ram... I'd go smaller and wider. It's that important.

To an extent of course. You don't want any 128Mb piece of shit. (relatively speaking of course, those used to be awesome sexy...)

I haven't looked at the specific parts you've picked to check for gotchas or performance/reliability concerns, but the summaries are in a good ballpark.

[Schizm]

all right, It's ordered. Final base cost:

$784.90

final shell out, given expedited order processing (3 bucks to get it faster? hell yeah!):

$828.11

so, slightly over what I wanted to spend given the expense of shipping (most of that's the case, but that's ok), but overall, not a bad expense for a budget gaming system that will have some teeth.

[obryn]

all right, It's ordered. Final base cost:

$784.90

final shell out, given expedited order processing (3 bucks to get it faster? hell yeah!):

$828.11

so, slightly over what I wanted to spend given the expense of shipping (most of that's the case, but that's ok), but overall, not a bad expense for a budget gaming system that will have some teeth.
Heck yeah :) I hope you have many years of happy gaming!

-O

[Schizm]

argh. UPS takes to damn long... not gonna get my parts till tomorow.

[Schizm]

It's allliiiiive! ALIVE! ALIVE!

...

yeah, corney, but seems appropriate given the day I put it together...

[obryn]

WOOHOO!

How's it work?

[Schizm]

great good gods this is fast in comparison to what I'm used to. went from a athlon xp+ 2000 (2ghz) with a gig of ram on a failing motherboard to this.

world o' difference.

[Caliphis]

world o' difference.

World O' Warcraft

[AZRogue]

Okay, the last PC I built was in 2005 and I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to current specs and shit. Doesn't anyone know a link to a place that explains what to look for when building a CURRENT machine, for gaming, such as whether to go 32 or 64 bit, how critical the CPU (thinking a dual-core, but should it be quad-core? I don't know), how much RAM do I need, etc. I haven't built a system for a few years and feel COMPLETELY out of the loop. Anyone have a link to a detailed article I can use to catch up?

[AZRogue]

To give more information, I'm looking to upgrade but can't afford to do more than buy in spurts. So, I'll probably be buying a case, board, and CPU first. Then RAM, Drives, and OS, followed by Graphics Card all by itself.

For the initial purchase I'm looking at:

XCLIO A380BK Fully Black High Gloss Finish SECC 1.0mm thickness ATX Full Tower Computer Case
(http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16811103010)

ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16813131284)

And a
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16819115036)

Any suggestions, advice? I want a gaming machine I can not worry about for a while. Last time I tried that (2004) it lasted me until last year. :/

I'm pretty much at a loss for current specs. I have no idea how SLI works, for instance (how would 2 mid-ranged cards compare to one high-end? What sort of PSU am I looking at?)

EDIT: Oh, sorry, here's the PSU I am considering:
COOLMAX CUG-950B 950W ATX12V V.2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817159072)

[obryn]

Okay, the last PC I built was in 2005 and I'm completely out of the loop when it comes to current specs and shit. Doesn't anyone know a link to a place that explains what to look for when building a CURRENT machine, for gaming, such as whether to go 32 or 64 bit, how critical the CPU (thinking a dual-core, but should it be quad-core? I don't know), how much RAM do I need, etc. I haven't built a system for a few years and feel COMPLETELY out of the loop. Anyone have a link to a detailed article I can use to catch up?
Gosh, I can't name a single article which says everything... I keep up to date by reading HardOCP on occasion.

I think, by and large, you're still better off with dual-core for gaming. In a year or two, that will likely change. Some games are using quad-core, and more will in the future, but right now I think the higher clock speed is more valuable than the additional cores, for similar prices.

64-bit is the new mainstream, and will increasingly gain support in the future. 32 bit is nearing the end of its cycle.

If you're doing Vista (and it's better than initially reported), I'd get 3-4 gb, minimum. There's little reason not to go with 4gb if you're using Vista x64.

Sharky Extreme posts occasional buyer's guides for value gaming PCs and high-end gaming PCs, and I got a lot of good ideas from there.

-O

[AZRogue]

Thanks Obryn. Sharky Extreme? I'll check them out. :)

[obryn]

XCLIO A380BK Fully Black High Gloss Finish SECC 1.0mm thickness ATX Full Tower Computer Case
(http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16811103010)
Looks like a great case!


ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16813131284)
I think this may be more than you need, to be honest. If you're thinking of going SLI, get an nForce board. If you're thinking of going Crossfire, get an ATI board. They will probably handle those configurations a little better. Also, while DDR3 RAM is not worth the extra expense right now, you might want to get a board that can handle DDR3 if you plan on spending this much on the motherboard.

YMMV. I personally wouldn't spend more on the motherboard than I would on the processor, but it's your call. :)

And a
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16819115036)
It's what I got, and I love it. I think it hits the sweet spot for value/performance.


[quote]Any suggestions, advice? I want a gaming machine I can not worry about for a while. Last time I tried that (2004) it lasted me until last year. :/

I'm pretty much at a loss for current specs. I have no idea how SLI works, for instance (how would 2 mid-ranged cards compare to one high-end? What sort of PSU am I looking at?)
SLI and Crossfire are both pretty solid. I know that ATI's mid-high-end value cards can Crossfire very well, and give good gains.

Your monitor is probably what you should look at here. If you plan on gaming at 1280x1024, Crossfire or SLI will be wasted money with today's graphics cards. You're better off getting a good single card and spending less.

If you plan on gaming at higher resolutions, you'll want the extra juice.

Again, a great resource is HardOCP. They do great benchmarking for graphics cards, looking at real-world gaming performance. It should answer your questions about SLI and Crossfire.

-O

[AZRogue]

Well, it looks like I might get my wish to build a computer early. My comp just crashed last night, fried mobo, and that happened while I was trying to recover one of my raid-striped hard drives which failed.

I happen to be completely broke, though, so am looking at January before I can get a new one. I'm posting on my brother's laptop at the moment and I'll still be able to post from work. Still, I just lost about 120 gigs of music, movies, and memories.

I'll keep you all posted. Wish me luck.

[Black Angel]

Good luck indeed! Time to ask for money for Christmas. The ultimate gift!

[AZRogue]

Well, I couldn't stand it. I'm posting on my brother's laptop again which he let me use to order my new parts with. I went down to my credit union today and was given a quick $1000 as a line of credit so that I don't have to use any of my cards and the deal was much better.

So, I just placed my order. Oh, and I had just recently purchased a very nice and powerful 850w PSU so didn't have to buy one of those, though i did buy a few other things that I already have, just because they are newer.

Oh, I went with 4gb of RAM for now and plan to get another 4 come January. Tell me what you guys think.

1 GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16813128358)Ite m #: N82E16813128358
$119.99

1 ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16835118019)Ite m #: N82E16835118019
$53.99

1 Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8500 - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16819115036)Ite m #: N82E16819115036
$187.99

1 Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16822136218)Ite m #: N82E16822136218
$69.99

1 SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q - OEM (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16827151173)Ite m #: N82E16827151173
$28.99

1 Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit English for System Builders 1pk DSP OEI DVD - OEM (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16832116488)Ite m #: N82E16832116488
$79.99

1 COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16811119160)Ite m #: N82E16811119160
$119.99

1 OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2RPR10664GK - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16820227289)Ite m #: N82E16820227289
$71.99

1 EVGA 896-P3-1267-AR GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 Superclocked Edition 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FP roduct%2FProduct.aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16814130400)Ite m #: N82E16814130400
$259.99

[AZRogue]

My parts are arriving today. I've taken tomorrow off to put it together (who am I kidding, it's going to be an all nighter I'm sure) and install all of my old software.

Everyone I know is telling me I screwed up by going with Vista 64 instead of 32-bit. Let's see how it rolls. I'm hoping to make them eat their words. (I hope ;) )

I'm also planning on, down the road in a month or so, putting Ubuntu on another hard drive for fun, as well as use a 1TB partitioned 3rd drive for files, music, big file storage. I really want to use Beryl, though so far I have no idea which Ubuntu version has it or if it will still work now that Beryl's merged with some other company.

Wish me luck, guys. Hopefully i'll be back online full time, instead of snippets from work, by Friday. :)

[obryn]

My parts are arriving today. I've taken tomorrow off to put it together (who am I kidding, it's going to be an all nighter I'm sure) and install all of my old software.

Everyone I know is telling me I screwed up by going with Vista 64 instead of 32-bit. Let's see how it rolls. I'm hoping to make them eat their words. (I hope ;) )

I'm also planning on, down the road in a month or so, putting Ubuntu on another hard drive for fun, as well as use a 1TB partitioned 3rd drive for files, music, big file storage. I really want to use Beryl, though so far I have no idea which Ubuntu version has it or if it will still work now that Beryl's merged with some other company.

Wish me luck, guys. Hopefully i'll be back online full time, instead of snippets from work, by Friday. :)
Good luck!

Sorry, I've missed this thread over the last few updates. Looks like some good components!

I have yet to regret Vista x64. You will be just fine, and it'll actually recognize your 4gb of memory. 32-bit is backwards-looking, and everything is moving toward 64-bit in the PC world.

-O

[PWD]

As long as your drivers are 64-bit friendly, and you're avoiding legacy software... I don't foresee any particular pain for you from 64-bit vista. Granted there are a small handful of games that don't like it, but it's vastly overblown now that most drivers have settled down and sorted themselves out.

Enjoy the new box! Mine's still smoking along but I'm getting closer to having the build new itch come along, what with i7 and x58's appearing all over the place.

[Critter]

Enjoy the new box! Mine's still smoking along but I'm getting closer to having the build new itch come along, what with i7 and x58's appearing all over the place.

Can I have your old stuff?

[AZRogue]

It's alive! Took me forever to put together but that's just because I read every manual and double checked every connection. The good news is that by being extra careful everything worked right the first time, perfectly.

Man, Vista isn't bad at all. No issues at all, except with the Fallout 1 and 2 game CD I bought. I'll see if there's a fix online for it. I'm having too much playing Far Cry 2 and Crysis with all the settings maxed out and not ever dropping below 50 fps. I didn't realize my old computer was so slow.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I have to go and enter my info on all of my websites again. :)

[obryn]

I'm glad it's working! I'm doing the same thing with Crysis so far. :)

My advice is to set aside a dedicated Games directory off the root, and install your games there. If you're still having problems with Fallout 1 & 2, I would...

(1) Go to the shortcut, right click, go to Properties-->Compatibility and choose XP SP2.

(2) Right-click and Run as Administrator

Those may clear it up for you.

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I have to go and enter my info on all of my websites again. :)

I just copy my whole Firefox Profiles directory... It works!

-O

[AZRogue]

Er, and by "off the root" you mean make a Games folder on my C:\ drive instead of using the default Vista wants, right? I be dumb sometimes, sorry. Just want to be sure. :)

[Critter]

Er, and by "off the root" you mean make a Games folder on my C:\ drive instead of using the default Vista wants, right? I be dumb sometimes, sorry. Just want to be sure. :)

Yeah. That's what I do and it works great.

I got 3 hard drives. One for Windows, one for my general storage crap, and one just for games. The glory of it being, if I reinstall Windows, there's very little I have to go back and fully reinstall. If I reinstall a game, it takes about 10 seconds because the files are already on the hard drive. It's great.

[AZRogue]

That's a great idea. I'm buying another 4 gigs of RAM next month and I'm going to probably buy 3 more hard drives: 1 for Games, 1 for Music and Movies storage, and 1 to install Ubuntu with Beryl. I have a full sized case and there's room to have a lounge act in there.

[obryn]

That's a great idea. I'm buying another 4 gigs of RAM next month and I'm going to probably buy 3 more hard drives: 1 for Games, 1 for Music and Movies storage, and 1 to install Ubuntu with Beryl. I have a full sized case and there's room to have a lounge act in there.
Yep, it's the way to go, I think.

Vista is funny about its Program Files directories, and keeps them somewhat secure. Keeping them in their own directory helps with compatibility.

Also, you don't need a separate HD for Ubuntu... You can run it in a partition of 10gb or smaller (I use 8) ... You really don't need any more room than just enough for the file system + applications, since Ubuntu natively reads/writes NTFS nowadays. Ubuntu installation can walk you through the partitioning process; you can just run the partition manager straight from the LiveCD. Then, it will set up GRUB for multi-boot.

-O

[Critter]

Also, you don't need a separate HD for Ubuntu... You can run it in a partition of 10gb or smaller (I use 8) ... You really don't need any more room than just enough for the file system + applications, since Ubuntu natively reads/writes NTFS nowadays. Ubuntu installation can walk you through the partitioning process; you can just run the partition manager straight from the LiveCD. Then, it will set up GRUB for multi-boot.

-O

Yup. I'd just take a chunk out of your music/movie drive and use a little of that for Ubuntu.

How big of HDs you thinking?

Of my 1,000gb I still have 400gb free, which is annoying me to no end. Really need to find 400 more gb of crap to fill it with :D

[AZRogue]

I was just thinking of installing Ubuntu on a separate drive in case the HD with Vista fails I could still access my music and movies and such. Putting it on the same drive as my music would make sense.

The music and movies drive is 1TB and the others are going to be 640GB drives.

[obryn]

I was just thinking of installing Ubuntu on a separate drive in case the HD with Vista fails I could still access my music and movies and such. Putting it on the same drive as my music would make sense.

The music and movies drive is 1TB and the others are going to be 640GB drives.
Oh, jeez, yeah, no need to add a new drive for that!

Set it to 10gb if you're worried.

-O