Heroes: Season 3 (spoilers!)

[Northcott]

Well, it started off on a BIG note, with lots of surprises. There were twists and turns aplenty.

Nathan lives, and it seems like he might even have retained some measure of Claire's healing ability after the fact... or Linderman really /is/ in his head. Is Linderman alive, or is Nathan crazy?

Do Niki's personalities each have a different set of powers, due to her brain chemistry shifting with the different personalities? Or is this really just a politician's assistant who looks a great deal like Niki?

The new villains... damn. Scary, scary bastards. And Momma Petrelli's dream where Sylar was the only thing that could save her? Creepy. Interesting little twist at the end, too. Now, is she just manipulating Sylar, or was she telling him the truth? Odds are it's both. He looks too much like Peter and Nathan, and his powers are too similar to Peter's, for it to be a complete lie.

Mohinder made the classic mad scientist mistake. Interesting and amusing.


Also, Sylar digging around in Claire's head reminded me of something from Season 1; Peter's mental meltdown. It makes sense in hindsight. Peter's Empathy allows his brain to mimick the powers of others... which may have caused his brain to actually make a physical change to accomodate the new powers. Which suggests a possible upper limit... or that his brain is constantly adapting.

[there_is_no_bob]

[rampant speculation]
I think Future Peter may be scared to go back. And how could he? He's got no "back" to go back to. He is now an uncaused cause... Whee for the god imagery.

The formula is the proper version of what Mohinder tried to make.

Ando betrayed Hiro by using the formula.
[/rampant speculation]

[King Vyper]

Janie and I joke that Mohinder put the Hinder in Hinder, God what a idiot.

[there_is_no_bob]

Janie and I joke that Mohinder put the Hinder in Hinder, God what a idiot.

I really, really want Mohinder to die. He just fucks up so much.

[Dacke]

Do Niki's personalities each have a different set of powers, due to her brain chemistry shifting with the different personalities? Or is this really just a politician's assistant who looks a great deal like Niki?
Remember the time frame. Season 3 started fifteen seconds before season 2 ended (since we see Nathan being shot again). Niki being trapped in the burning building was happening simultaneously.

There's no way she could have gotten out and built up a new life for herself as a high-powered governor's aide and mistress in the day or so there was between the start of the season and the first time we see her. Tracy has to be a lost twin/triplet or something like that.

She's also more fodder for my pet theory that the circumstances influence your first power manifestation. She was being threatened and called a "K-Street Ice Queen", and she froze the guy solid.

Mohinder made the classic mad scientist mistake. Interesting and amusing.
Int 20, Wis 3.

[Caliphis]

She's also more fodder for my pet theory that the circumstances influence your first power manifestation. She was being threatened and called a "K-Street Ice Queen", and she froze the guy solid.




Don't forget that when Mohinder was talking to whats her name about the powers people could get he listed most of the ones he got.

[Dacke]

Good point.

[Ergeheilalt]

But Mohinder didn't say anything about getting Super Cheesy Porn Star turned Soap Opera Actor Charisma power.

:lol:

That was terrible.

[doc]

I missed it, did Hiro make an appearence ?

[Utrecht]

yes he did - and he has a new nemisis - a speedster

BTW, did anyone else notice Anders was in Mama Patrelies dream?

And the reporter - the former Greatest American Hero......

[doc]

yes he did - and he has a new nemisis - a speedster

BTW, did anyone else notice Anders was in Mama Patrelies dream?

And the reporter - the former Greatest American Hero......

Willian Katt

[Yig]

Finally got around to watching the episode.

Overall, pretty damn good.

I liked how the handled the speeder.

I'm thinking that the formula is what Mohinder discovered.

Maya is still annoying. Hope she get killed for real this time.

Wasn't expecting Nathan to become a Jesus freak.

[Dacke]

Maya is still annoying. Hope she get killed for real this time.
Speaking of which, did she get a chest upgrade while Mo was out looking for Sylar?

[Sobek]

Speaking of which, did she get a chest upgrade while Mo was out looking for Sylar?
Where do you think she keeps the souls of those she kills?

[Yig]

I just noticed they aired 2 episodes last week and I only watched the first one. Oh well. More Heroes for me to watch this week.

[Janos]

I just noticed they aired 2 episodes last week and I only watched the first one. Oh well. More Heroes for me to watch this week.

This week's episode was great too. Although they again build up to a huge Supers battle and didn't pay out.

I hate Superhero Cockteases!

[Yig]

Special effects are expensive :)

[Dacke]

Special effects are expensive :)
Yeah, they mentioned that Jesse was originally supposed to be able to create earthquakes, but building a set to accomodate that would be too expensive. So they gave him sonic powers instead. They also originally planned to have the movie theatre scene on a train, and to have more fiery stuff when Meredith was "training" Claire, but that was all cut for budget reasons.

[Janos]

Yeah, they mentioned that Jesse was originally supposed to be able to create earthquakes, but building a set to accomodate that would be too expensive. So they gave him sonic powers instead. They also originally planned to have the movie theatre scene on a train, and to have more fiery stuff when Meredith was "training" Claire, but that was all cut for budget reasons.

Oh, I get that, but they write the scenes to build up to an expectation of a fight, then don't deliver. That's what is frustrating. They really set the tone for a big Sylar fight, and nada. It's like the first season future episode where Peter and Sylar were facing off, and they panned off camera to Hiro running as it happened.

[Snatch]

I'm not sure what to think of the season so far. I kind of like it, but at the same time I'm kind of ambivalent. I think the long break between season 2 and this one has really dampened my interest in the show. I can't say I'm overly impressed with the writing so far, it seems...too cliched and off. Can't really put my finger on it...

[Snatch]

Oh, I get that, but they write the scenes to build up to an expectation of a fight, then don't deliver. That's what is frustrating. They really set the tone for a big Sylar fight, and nada. It's like the first season future episode where Peter and Sylar were facing off, and they panned off camera to Hiro running as it happened.

Yeah - that's becoming annoyingly predictable.

[there_is_no_bob]

I'm not sure what to think of the season so far. I kind of like it, but at the same time I'm kind of ambivalent. I think the long break between season 2 and this one has really dampened my interest in the show. I can't say I'm overly impressed with the writing so far, it seems...too cliched and off. Can't really put my finger on it...
I think the world is starting to dissolve under the weight of all the odd crap that's going on. It started out making sense, because it was just a few people with odd, but not necessarily earth-shaking, abilities. Now we've got effectively infinite power in one guy, who for no good reason, hasn't stopped any of the villains or done what's necessary to accomplish his desired ends.

Even though he's willing to kill his brother?

[Lady Fury]

I'm not sure what to think of the season so far. I kind of like it, but at the same time I'm kind of ambivalent. I think the long break between season 2 and this one has really dampened my interest in the show. I can't say I'm overly impressed with the writing so far, it seems...too cliched and off. Can't really put my finger on it...

I agree with this sentiment. I was really let down last night because there was no real fight between the super villains and Sylar. Plus the whole thing between Claire and her mom was really lame.

[Snatch]

I agree with this sentiment. I was really let down last night because there was no real fight between the super villains and Sylar. Plus the whole thing between Claire and her mom was really lame.

I understand due to budget constraints that it can't happen every other episode, but they really need to throw a bone to the viewers soon.

And your right, the conflict between Claire and her mom was forced, contrite and just lame. So was bringing in the biological mom.

[Pigs in Space]

Also sylar is still alive.

By season 3, shouldn't there be like a bad guy faction and a good guy faction, facing off and fighting and stuff, and costumes?

I mean, none of the characters know what is going on STILL, and it's taken Mohinder this long to become a decent mad scientist.

[Northcott]

When in doubt, write powers that it's cheaper to produce the Special FX for.

So far the only reason I'll continue to watch the show is the moment they gave Bennet at the end of that last episode. Brilliant. And delivered with a happy, sunshiney voice. :D

Outside of that, the show's lost my interest. They're so worried about becoming a super-hero show in having everybody working together, that they're keeping their plotlines split through so many people that they can't possible give them enough story development.

Why isn't Parkman a psychic cop who's on guard duty for one of the most important men in the USA, Senator Nathan Petrelli? Why isn't Peter hanging out with his brother more? They've got Niki (or more accurately, one of her clones) hanging with him now.

They don't need to create one massive super-group, but clustering a few characters together here and there alleviates the story spread problem. Supernatural accomplishes in two shows what it takes Heroes a full season to do... and they can pull that off because of their tighter focus.

[there_is_no_bob]

So far the only reason I'll continue to watch the show is the moment they gave Bennet at the end of that last episode. Brilliant. And delivered with a happy, sunshiney voice. :DI loves me some Noah. Best part of the show, by far.

And what the hell is with Hiro? He was turning into a badass, and now's he's back to bumbling?

[Snatch]

I loves me some Noah. Best part of the show, by far.

And what the hell is with Hiro? He was turning into a badass, and now's he's back to bumbling?

The Hiro plot is somewhat painful to follow. His actions seem more like a teen (which was ok for the first season, but not so fun the third time around) and his whole 'distrust' of Ando is forced and cliched.

When does BSG come back?

[there_is_no_bob]

The Hiro plot is somewhat painful to follow. His actions seem more like a teen (which was ok for the first season, but not so fun the third time around) and his whole 'distrust' of Ando is forced and cliched.

When does BSG come back?
The other characters at least have the "Not much times has passed for us" excuse, but Hiro spent a rather long time back in feudal Japan. Fucking lame.

I'm just glad Supernatural is still chock full of awesome.

[Northcott]

I'm just glad Supernatural is still chock full of awesome.


Repeated for THE TRUTH.

I swear; the way I get about Thursday evenings is like the way I used to get about Saturday morning as a kid.

[Snatch]

I'm just glad Supernatural is still chock full of awesome.

I've only caught the odd episode here and there, but I've found them pretty entertaining. Good writing and acting.

[there_is_no_bob]

I've only caught the odd episode here and there, but I've found them pretty entertaining. Good writing and acting.

They're good individually. They're awesome as a series.

[Sobek]

Repeated for THE TRUTH.

I swear; the way I get about Thursday evenings is like the way I used to get about Saturday morning as a kid.
This.

They're good individually. They're awesome as a series.
And this.

I may have been as in love with another TV show at some point, but I sure don't remember it. Supernatural is pure awesome.

[Snatch]

They're good individually. They're awesome as a series.

I keep hearing that, and from I've seen individually, I like.

I'm just waiting for more seasons to pop up on DVD and watch them continuously.

[Northcott]

Seasons 1-3 are available on DVD. And the really awesome part is that, having gone back and started to watch them from the beginning, I can see now that they were laying the groundwork for everything that's happened from Day 1. Little obscure jokes or comments here and there seem to point in a certain direction now.

It's effin' awesome.

More discussion in the Supernatural thread! Current season's definitely worth talking about. :D

[Janos]

Last night's episode was interesting storywise, but I wish they would cut back on the need for constant melodrama-esque plot twists. Used sparingly, they're masterful, especially in conjunction with strong character building. But used frequently, they're trite and lose all impact because you can't take anything in the show at face value. They're skirting the line and I hope it mellows more in later episodes.

Peter and Hiro are both back to where they were at the start of season 2 power and intelligence wise unfortunately. I hoped they would stop that.

[there_is_no_bob]

If the next episode has more of future time, I'm going to start getting pissed. It's like dream episodes. Whoo! All this stuff happened in a future that will never happen unless you completely fail at everything. Oh,wait, it already didn't happen because you'll not likely go off to your own death, or not know what will happen as a result of your actions since you already told yourself what would happen.

[Snatch]

If the next episode has more of future time, I'm going to start getting pissed. It's like dream episodes. Whoo! All this stuff happened in a future that will never happen unless you completely fail at everything.

Exactly. It was still a decent episode but it feels so much like the first season with the characters acting they way they are. Hasn't anybody learnt anything?

I'm 'meh' on the whole formula granting powers plot. It's not really ringing with me.

[Yig]

So... What the fuck are they doing with Sylar?

In season 1 he was the perfect vilain. Now? He got pussified. That whole hunger thing... Meh.

[there_is_no_bob]

And once again, Hiro demonstrates all the brain power of a 12 year old. Is this being written by the guys who do the WWE?

[Snatch]

And once again, Hiro demonstrates all the brain power of a 12 year old. Is this being written by the guys who do the WWE?

Yeah...that show is one more poor episode away from losing me.

[Pigs in Space]

I actually thought that episode 4 was the best one of season 3 so far.


I have to say though, if I had powers, I'd fell pretty ripped off with anything less than the ability to blow up entire cities at will.

It's getting ridiculous.

[Utrecht]

And once again, Hiro demonstrates all the brain power of a 12 year old. Is this being written by the guys who do the WWE?

I hear what you are saying and certainly some of his decisions are.... questionable - but remember the that Hiro effectively thinks like a Silver age super hero - the world is black and white - it is effectively the core of who he is.

[Radu]

Tell me which Silver Age super would stab his best friend in the chest in order to achieve his goals.

Hiro lost all his cred with me. As has Suresh. And Claire.

When Sylar and Peter are the only compelling characters left in the show, it is getting perilously close to my "I don't give a shit" point.

[there_is_no_bob]

the core of who he is
is a guy who won't stop and think things through. Which is utterly inexcusable for a guy with the ability to stop time and who has been confronted over and over again with the problems inherent in not thinking through his actions.

He's not an adult, he's a kid. Which was fine and dandy for season 1, but is really goddamned stupid at this point. He's lived through far more than the amount of time that everyone else in the show has, but has developped less. Huge chunks of time have been dedicated to Hiro growing up, and now he's back to being a child again.

[Radu]

Hiro Protagonist could whip Hiro Nakamura's ass. Even WITH the time/space control thing.

[Northcott]

is a guy who won't stop and think things through. Which is utterly inexcusable for a guy with the ability to stop time and who has been confronted over and over again with the problems inherent in not thinking through his actions.

He's not an adult, he's a kid. Which was fine and dandy for season 1, but is really goddamned stupid at this point. He's lived through far more than the amount of time that everyone else in the show has, but has developped less. Huge chunks of time have been dedicated to Hiro growing up, and now he's back to being a child again.

Bingo. That's my huge beef with it. In Season 1, we caught a glimpse of Future Hiro -- the guy who learned his lessons and wowed the audience with how effin' cool he was. The implied promise of character transformation had the masses giddy.

And they fucked it up.

That's what I don't get. As a writer, at what point do you say; "I just hit one out of the park, so now I think I'll fuck it up miserably"? They threw future Hiro into the story, and everybody and their uncle was giddy with how damned cool he was; he was not only focused and sharp-minded, but it turned out he was Mr. Badass Samurai and was using his power tactically, to figure out what had gone wrong, where, and change things to a better world.

Truly Awesome.

And somehow, somewhere in there, the writer of that character looked at what everybody else was doing and said; "I want Hiro to stay a fuck-up forever." It makes no sense. A good chunk of the show's time has been specifically devoted to his character development; coming into his own with his powers, learning the final lessons in badassery from his ultra-cool father, JUMPING BACK IN FUCKING TIME TO BECOME THE LEGENDARY HERO HE WORSHIPPED AS A BOY. Oh, and saving the world. Twice. I mean... goddamn.

I read in an interview with Tim Kring that what they do is have a big writing team assembled, and certain writers tackle certain characters. That way everybody has a different 'voice' that's consistent. Almost like a giant RPG, really. Well, somebody needs to fire Hiro-writer's ass, or the asses of the producers who demand that he remain a dumbass. With the amount of time they devote to him, they're killing this show.

[Radu]

Would it kill them to add a bit of clarity to the show? I spent the entire 1st season saying, "Who are they again?" I am still watching through the 2nd, and so maybe things got a bit easier there, but I'm left looking at the 3rd season in which everyone has betrayed everything they ever held dear, Peter is engaged in a future me/past me contest for Biggest Douchebag Ever, Sylar is now a tortured misunderstood soul instead of a serial murderer and power rapist, and now there are so many secret societies, factions, and conspiracies that my ability to sort them out is overcome by my inability to care enough to try.

A little less "everyone is grey in a world without absolutes" would go a long way toward making me as interested in season 3 as I was in season 1 and am becoming in season 2.

[Northcott]

Not sure where you're getting multiple secret societies from. There's just one, with a big internal power struggle between competing factions... of which there are currently two.

[Janos]

And somehow, somewhere in there, the writer of that character looked at what everybody else was doing and said; "I want Hiro to stay a fuck-up forever." It makes no sense. A good chunk of the show's time has been specifically devoted to his character development; coming into his own with his powers, learning the final lessons in badassery from his ultra-cool father, JUMPING BACK IN FUCKING TIME TO BECOME THE LEGENDARY HERO HE WORSHIPPED AS A BOY. Oh, and saving the world. Twice. I mean... goddamn.

So did Peter though, and he's as bad or worse than Hiro.

[there_is_no_bob]

So did Peter though, and he's as bad or worse than Hiro.
And now any character with a really powerful ability must die before meeting Peter. Could probably make an interesting betting game out of that.


Yeah, Peter pisses me off too. Just wipe the company off the face of the earth, kill all the villains and be done. If it fucks things up beyond belief, just go back and tell yourself not to do it. Plus he would now get all their funky powers!

Hell, if he doesn't want to kill 'em he can just make them a moon colony or something.

[Northcott]

So did Peter though, and he's as bad or worse than Hiro.


They've at least written excuses for Peter's fucked-uppedness into the character, including a bout of amnesia. Plus he has made some strides as a character through the series. Remember that his initial problems were self-doubt and inaction. Peter may still be fucking up, but it's not from self-doubt or inaction. He's made clear character changes -- just not appealing ones.

Hiro, on the other hand, is still a bumbling ass used for bad sitcom.