Voter Apathy

[Lmik]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2008/09/15/124373cf8e43

The Electoral Enrolment Centre says it is satisfied with the current number of people enrolled to vote in the upcoming election.

Nearly 250,000 people still have not registered to vote on 8 November.

The centre's national manager Murray Wicks says the education campaign has been highly visible and successful, and if someone wants to vote enrolling could not be easier.

Mr Wicks says more than 92% of people are already registered and New Zealand ranks amongst the highest in the world for enrollment levels.

Mr Wicks says in the 2005 election more than 16,000 votes did not count, because the voter was not enrolled.

Copyright © 2008 Radio New Zealand

So 92% of people enrolled in NZ - given that both general elections will be happening at the same time it would be interesting to know how well US voter registration is doing.

[Lady Fury]

I made sure to register last month. Since we moved, I hadn't had the chance to do so. It's all mail in ballets in my state. I better get one. I think I'll go check online to make sure they got my info.

I hope Americans take a more active role in voting this time. I'm going to make sure everyone I know votes.

[Teve]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2008/09/15/124373cf8e43

So 92% of people enrolled in NZ - given that both general elections will be happening at the same time it would be interesting to know how well US voter registration is doing.

I promise you it is not NEAR 92% We are not known for our great voter turnout... It always blows my mind :what:

Personally, I always maintain my registration, and changing my registry is one of the first things I do whenever I move.

For example, in the United States, approximately 70% of the eligible population registers to vote, which may be an important contributing factor in the low average election turnout, which in recent decades just barely has topped 50% of voting age population in presidential elections. However, in 2004, the presidential election turnout was up to 56.70% of all US citizens old enough to vote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

[Name Lips]

Note that that 56% was a record turnout.

[Lmik]

Voter turn out in NZ since 1980 has averaged 86% though in the last two general election it was only 77% and 80%

Only having to deal with 2.8 million voters makes it easier but that is the size of a small state. Is there state or federal programs encouraging people to vote over there?

http://www.elections.org.nz/record/resultsdata/elections-dates-turnout.html

[Name Lips]

Not really. Employers are required to allow their employees to take time off work to vote... but there's no compensation. They leave work for 2-6 hours (depending on the lines) and don't get paid for it. Happy fucking Tuesday, voters!

Frankly, I think Election Day should be a national holiday, and all non-essential places of business should be required to close their doors for the day, and all people who bring back a "receipt" showing they voted should be compensated in full their wages for the day.

But what the fuck do I know, I'm a goddamn pinko commie liberal.

[Lmik]

You have your election on a Tuesday?!?!? We have ours on a saturday and make damned sure that it doesn't clash with any major rugby games. It makes the election night prties much more fun.

Is there any reason for a Tuesday (and why does it take 2-6 hours to vote). Here we have polling booths with in walking distance (i.e no more than 15minutes walk from most urban areas) and in practically every community hall and you would be hard pushed to spend more than 10 minutes in the queue. Is anyone suspicious that perhaps they don't actually want people to vote?

[FeatsofClay]

Voter turn out in NZ since 1980 has averaged 86% though in the last two general election it was only 77% and 80%

Only having to deal with 2.8 million voters makes it easier but that is the size of a small state. Is there state or federal programs encouraging people to vote over there?

http://www.elections.org.nz/record/resultsdata/elections-dates-turnout.html

There is a push to register but it is mostly handled by non-profits. Funny thing- you can be registered for the draft (legally required for males over 18) without being registered to vote. :grey:

Lots of states now have 'Motor Voter' abilities where you can simply check a form as you get your license and you are registered.

[Teve]

Not really. Employers are required to allow their employees to take time off work to vote... but there's no compensation. They leave work for 2-6 hours (depending on the lines) and don't get paid for it. Happy fucking Tuesday, voters!

Frankly, I think Election Day should be a national holiday, and all non-essential places of business should be required to close their doors for the day, and all people who bring back a "receipt" showing they voted should be compensated in full their wages for the day.

But what the fuck do I know, I'm a goddamn pinko commie liberal.

Gee, I never had to wait more than an hour to vote, and I could go before or after work, even working an 8-5 type job. Short of those jobs with 12 hour shifts, (that I've had) I've never left work to vote, and never been more than 30min late. Maybe i'm just lucky having been in an area where there were so many voting areas, only a small population went to each one. (or perhaps my area was just low turn out?)

But I'm all for national holiday! I think we should take more pride in voting!

But then look at every other holiday, more and more businesses open every year. If people have off work then the retailers will be open.... with an "Election Day Sale" Lets see if we can commericalize every important day in the country, says the retail business owner.

[Name Lips]

You have your election on a Tuesday?!?!? We have ours on a saturday and make damned sure that it doesn't clash with any major rugby games. It makes the election night prties much more fun.

Is there any reason for a Tuesday (and why does it take 2-6 hours to vote). Here we have polling booths with in walking distance (i.e no more than 15minutes walk from most urban areas) and in practically every community hall and you would be hard pushed to spend more than 10 minutes in the queue. Is anyone suspicious that perhaps they don't actually want people to vote?
People have to vote within the districts with which they are registered. Sometimes you don't get to pick at all... there's only one available place. And some voters spend an eternity in the booth (what are they doing, reading the voting guide in there?), some machines break down, some people get confused and hit the "vote" button before they're ready, sometimes there is poor planning and there were too many people or too few machines sent to one station, or sometimes there aren't enough volunteers to keep it running smoothly... Even after the polls "close," there could be lines of people who've been waiting hours already winding around the block...

There are always places that have these problems, and they always seem to be in low-income, high-population areas.

And yes, it's always a Tuesday. Always. The Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

For much of our history, America was a predominantly agrarian society. Law makers therefore took into account that November was perhaps the most convenient month for farmers and rural workers to be able to travel to the polls.

The fall harvest was over, (remember that spring was planting time and summer was taken up with working the fields and tending the crops) but in the majority of the nation the weather was still mild enough to permit travel over unimproved roads.
Why Tuesday?

Since most residents of rural America had to travel a significant distance to the county seat in order to vote, Monday was not considered reasonable since many people would need to begin travel on Sunday. This would, of course, have conflicted with Church services and Sunday worship.

Why the first Tuesday after the first Monday? Lawmakers wanted to prevent election day from falling on the first of November for two reasons. First, November 1st is All Saints Day, a Holy Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics. Second, most merchants were in the habit of doing their books from the preceding month on the 1st. Apparently, Congress was worried that the economic success or failure of the previous month might prove an undue influence on the vote!
from http://www.factmonster.com/spot/electionday1.html

[Dacke]

In Sweden, the election is always on the third Sunday in September. I don't know what the reasoning is for putting it in September, but it's on a Sunday to enable people to vote.

You can also vote ahead of time at designated locations (it used to be the post offices, but since they closed down most of those I'm not sure where), but you need your voter card then.

I see people talk about standing in line for hours to vote... how few voting places do you have in the US? I live in a town with 105,000 inhabitants, and last election there were 61 places to vote (though some of those are near-duplicates, e.g. Buildings A and B at some school). I've never had to stand in line for more than like ten minutes to vote.

[Name Lips]

They're already anticipating the problems:

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26767481/)


Election day could be a mess
Worries over registration surge, failure-prone equipment, new procedure

Faced with a surge in voter registrations leading up to Nov. 4, election officials across the country are bracing for long lines, equipment failures and confusion over polling procedures that could cost thousands the chance to cast a ballot.

The crush of voters will strain a system already in the midst of transformation, with jurisdictions introducing new machines and rules to avoid the catastrophe of the deadlocked 2000 election and the lingering controversy over the 2004 outcome. Even within the past few months, cities and counties have revamped their processes: Nine million voters, including many in the battleground states of Ohio, Florida and Colorado, will use equipment that has changed since March.

But the widespread changes meant to reassure the public have also increased the potential for trouble.

"You change systems and throw in lots of new voters, and you can plan to be up the proverbial creek," said Kimball Brace, president of Election Data Services, a consulting firm that has tracked the voting changes.

$3 billion overhaul
Since Congress passed the Help America Vote Act six years ago, $3 billion in federal funds has been spent to overhaul voting operations, much of it for new equipment. With touchscreen machines falling out of favor, an increasing number of the nation's voters -- just over half -- will use paper ballots, which will be read by optical scanners. That will produce a paper trail that can serve as a backup if questions arise over tallies.

For more than half of the states, this will be the first presidential election using statewide databases required by the 2002 law to improve the accuracy of voter rolls. When voters arrive at the polls, their information must match the list in order for them to receive a regular ballot. That could trigger contentious questions in places with particularly rigid rules on what constitutes a match.

Both campaigns have lined up teams of lawyers to challenge any irregularities, from registrations to polling place problems to vote counts.

And experts say the problems ahead will be formidable, even if they don't rise to the level of the Supreme Court challenge over the 2000 results.

"The voting process is going to be tested in a way it has not been in recent history," said Tova Wang, vice president for research at Common Cause, a government watchdog group.

Warning signs
Recent local primaries have offered warning signs.

In the District last week, initial tallies were inflated by thousands of votes, causing chaos that night, and officials have yet to explain the problem.

In Palm Beach County, Fla., more than 3,500 ballots went missing in an August primary, forcing workers to hunt through bins and leaving a judicial election still undecided.

That same day, equipment problems in two other Florida jurisdictions delayed results for hours.

Premier Election Solutions, the company that makes many of the nation's voting machines, last month acknowledged that software used in 34 states, including Virginia and Maryland, could cause votes to be dropped. The company, formerly called Diebold, said it has no fix for the problem now, but election officials can catch the errors and recover the votes through a routine process of double-checking electronic memory cards.

Any weak spots in the process in November, whether poorly trained poll workers, a confusing ballot design or faulty equipment, will be further stressed by turnout, including many first-time voters.

During this year's presidential primaries, the number of voters hit an eight-year high in 36 states, according to Electionline.org, which monitors electoral reforms as part of the Pew Center on the States.

Maryland election officials said Tuesday that they expect 250,000 new voters to register by next month's deadline. More than 280,000 Virginians have registered to vote since the beginning of the year.

In the battleground state of Nevada, there are 400,000 more voters registered than four years ago. More than 500,000 have registered in Indiana since the beginning of the year, prompting Secretary of State Todd Rokita to say this could be "the biggest Election Day in our nation's history in terms of turnout."

2 million poll workers needed
Federal officials estimate that 2 million poll workers will be needed to handle the turnout, twice 2004's number and a goal states are scrambling to meet.

New York City had hoped to muster more than its usual 30,000 poll workers, particularly to help voters with disabilities, but extra funds were not available, said Marcus Cederqvist, executive director of the city's Board of Elections. "We will have waits -- I'd guess an hour or maybe two -- but we like to see high turnouts," he said. "It's what we are here for, and let's hope voters keep it in perspective. It won't be like waiting for an iPhone overnight."

Because elections are managed at the local level -- more than 10,000 jurisdictions run voting operations -- there is plenty of opportunity for foul-ups, which can resound nationally.

"Nobody wants to be that county," said Rosemary Rodriguez, chairwoman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, created in 2002 to oversee and enforce nationwide election reform. But, she added, "the biggest fear I have is that elections officials don't heed what they saw in the primary and plan."

Long lines
After a spate of Election Day problems in Ohio in 2004, when some voters waited in line more than five hours, Franklin County, which includes Columbus, has added poll workers, increased the number of voting machines by 50 percent and commissioned a study on where the machines should go.

Other jurisdictions, including elsewhere in Ohio and several counties in Virginia, are requiring more training of poll workers, from greeters who will walk lines to make sure voters are at the right site to supervisors who must be able to set up and test voting machines.

In Worcester, Mass., local election officials are trying to prepare for the bigger turnout by locating some polling places in four supermarkets, which have plenty of parking and are accessible to disabled voters.

But David Moon, program director for FairVote, a voting advocacy group that is surveying local operations, said that "very few county officials" in swing states "are creating rational plans" to put machines where they are most needed. As a result, he said, frustrated voters stuck in long lines could give up and go home without casting ballots -- the same thing that happened four years ago in many states.

The process could be complicated by the statewide registration databases, which have been coming online one by one since 2004. For 31 states, Nov. 4 will be the first test of the systems with the bigger turnout of a presidential election.

States have taken a variety of positions on what should be considered a match when it comes to nicknames, hyphenated names and married names. If the information doesn't match, voters can cast provisional ballots, but whether those will count in final tallies depends on local rules, which vary widely.

"If you have small glitches multiplied by thousands of voters, that means big problems that cost eligible voters their voice," said Daniel P. Tokaji, an election law specialist at Ohio State University's Moritz College of Law. The problems could be more acute with hyphenated Hispanic names or transposed Asian surnames, he said, "leaving certain groups disproportionately affected."

Registration rules have prompted bitter complaints and lawsuits in Missouri, New Mexico and other states, and could lead to challenges after the votes are counted. Voting rights advocates have protested an Arizona requirement that residents show proof of citizenship to register, which has been upheld by a federal judge.

Advocates also worry that the back-and-forth of legislative debates and court rulings on voter identification in numerous states could further confound poll workers, disenfranchising some voters.

'Two lessons learned'
As they approach November, some local officials say they have addressed problems that surfaced in this year's presidential primaries.

Touchscreen machines still will be in place in Horry County, S.C., which includes Myrtle Beach, but elections director Sandy Martin said she will avoid the programming error that forced the county to use backup paper ballots -- some votes were cast on yellow legal pads -- and delayed results for a day.

"Oh, my gosh, it was awful," Martin said.

In Contra Costa County, east of San Francisco, registrar Stephen Weir said he too learned from the primary. A fold in the absentee ballots forced him to spend nearly two weeks ironing, by hand, about 16,000 ballots to make them flat enough to feed into vote-counting machines.

"There were two lessons learned," he said. "Dump the fold. And the silk setting worked great."

Sometimes I think they add extra drama just to make the election coverage more exciting...

[PWD]

I see people talk about standing in line for hours to vote... how few voting places do you have in the US? I live in a town with 105,000 inhabitants, and last election there were 61 places to vote (though some of those are near-duplicates, e.g. Buildings A and B at some school). I've never had to stand in line for more than like ten minutes to vote.

It amazes me the americans allow themselves to have as many problems as they do. I've never waited more than 20 minutes to vote in my life, and most times it's in the 5-10 minute range.

[Black Angel]

It's really interesting to see the NZ statistics for voter turnout & registration. I'd be interested to see ours, in fact I might just go research it right now. Because we actually can be fined for not voting if we're registered, and registration is pretty much universal from my experience.

[FeatsofClay]

Because we actually can be fined for not voting if we're registered, and registration is pretty much universal from my experience.

Do you know how much and how often it is enforced?

[Black Angel]

Do you know how much and how often it is enforced?

From http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/glossary.htm

Compulsory Voting

It is normal shorthand to say that Australia has a system of compulsory voting, but the term is not technically correct. Australians face two compulsions, compulsory enrolment and compulsory attendance at polling places. All Australian citizens 18 years and over must register on the electoral roll. Australia maintains a permanent electoral register with a rolling update, voters able to enrol or change their details at any time, except for the period between the close of rolls and polling day, usually 3-4 weeks. Compulsory electoral enrolment is not unusual, and also exists in other countries such as the United Kingdom. What is unusual in Australia is that once on the electoral roll, a voter must make the effort to vote. You must attend a polling place on election day, or make use of the liberal opportunities to vote by post, ahead of the election at pre-poll voting centres, or by voting absent at booths outside of your electorate. While you must attend, have your name crossed off the roll, accept a ballot paper and deposit it in a ballot box, you are not actually forced to mark a vote on the ballot paper. The ballot is secret, so you cannot be forced to vote. Electors who are not marked off the roll as having voted will receive a penalty notice for a $20 fine. The fine will be waived if a reasonable excuse is offered. Voters also have the option of taking the matter to court, at which stage a $50 fine can be imposed along with court costs. If the voter refuses to pay this fine, the matter becomes one of how the courts in each state deal with non-payment of court imposed fines. The Electoral Commission does not send people to gaol for refusing to vote, but once a voters refuses to pay a court ordered fine, it becomes a matter for the administration of justice. It is extremely rare for voters to take the fine for non-voting so far through the legal system. Technically, voters can also be fined for not putting their name on the electoral roll, but no fine will be levied if the unregistered voter fills in an enrolment form.

It's pretty rare from what I understand not to attend the polling booth/attempt to vote in another way & you can get out of it if you have a reasonable excuse (illness etc), but you don't actually have to vote once you have the papers if you don't want to. You can just not mark anything on them, or put in a donkey vote (mark incorrectly so the vote doesn't count).

[FeatsofClay]

From http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/glossary.htm



It's pretty rare from what I understand not to attend the polling booth/attempt to vote in another way & you can get out of it if you have a reasonable excuse (illness etc), but you don't actually have to vote once you have the papers if you don't want to. You can just not mark anything on them, or put in a donkey vote (mark incorrectly so the vote doesn't count).


It seems so beautiful. And elegant. Do we have to have all the poisonous animals to pull this off?

[Pigs in Space]

We should also make it clear that the govt makes it easy to vote - you can do postal votes (ie vote before polling day by sending in a voting card), and registered folks will go round and visit disabled people, etc. You can apply for it all.

It seems so beautiful. And elegant. Do we have to have all the poisonous animals to pull this off?

Although the spiders and snakes and stuff are integral parts of the voting system, it's actually the drop bears that enforce voting regulations in Oz.

[AZRogue]

I'm not sure that having compulsory voting and voter registration would be an improvement. It may be their duty, but I'm loathe to force anyone to do something they don't want to do, under most circumstances. It just sets a bad precedent, IMO.

I think people feel apathy because most of them believe that their vote doesn't matter. I would take a look at the electoral system and concentrate on ending corruption throughout all layers of government. Voting would pick up if people thought that they could make a difference, IMO.

[Ergeheilalt]

The day after I signed my lease, I sent in my voter registration and got my library card. :cool:

I checked the little box for an absentee ballot too. AWESOME. I get to be lazy!

[FeatsofClay]

While I have seen horrid news stories not all of the US is like that. I have been an urban and rural voter and have only waited to vote once. And that wait was under a minute! The nice poll worker said "You are going to have to wait just a few, no, you aren't, here you go!"

[Atropine Mama]

Friend of mine is almost 40 and has never voted. Her excuse is that she's too busy, blah blah, whatever, she just doesn't know anything about the candidates so she wouldn't know who to pick. Brilliant woman, pediatric nurse, working mother of three. Didn't know she could absentee vote because she never voted and never reads anything about politics. Do I want her her to exercise her right to vote? Yes. People have died to give her that right. Do I want her voting? Call me an asshole, but... probably not.

Regardless, I told her no one was allowed to come to my election night party unless they'd voted. Sticker required. :D

[Janos]

I always vote using an absentee ballot (which is pretty common in Orange County), and it's the quickest and easiest thing in the world. It gets filed with my bills, sent in a week or two ahead of time, and I've done my civic duty in the laziest way possible.

:D

[Ancalagon]

In Canada there is ONE organism running the election, and everyone gets treated the same way everywhere. Don't tell me the Americans can't do the same...

[Merganser]

In Canada there is ONE organism running the election, and everyone gets treated the same way everywhere. Don't tell me the Americans can't do the same...

That's correct; we cannot do the same. Voting in the US is a state issue, not federal. Every state can handle voting differently, if they so choose. That's why different states will have different styles of ballot, why some states prohibit felons from voting for life while other states allow imprisoned felons to continue to vote (only 2 do that, though), etc.

Sure, it all works about the same, but each state (and the states can delegate this authority to local levels, too) sets their own basic standards for things like ballots, voting technology, dates for absentee balloting and early voting, etc.

[Kyle Voltti]

Friend of mine is almost 40 and has never voted. Her excuse is that she's too busy, blah blah, whatever, she just doesn't know anything about the candidates so she wouldn't know who to pick. Brilliant woman, pediatric nurse, working mother of three. Didn't know she could absentee vote because she never voted and never reads anything about politics. Do I want her her to exercise her right to vote? Yes. People have died to give her that right. Do I want her voting? Call me an asshole, but... probably not.

Regardless, I told her no one was allowed to come to my election night party unless they'd voted. Sticker required. :D


make her watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRVQ4xwwmQ

[Lady Fury]

make her watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRVQ4xwwmQ

That was great!!! Thank you for posting that. I'm going to snag it and put it on a few of my other message boards (parenting boards). I think he makes a lot of valid statements.

[Ergeheilalt]

Regardless, I told her no one was allowed to come to my election night party unless they'd voted. Sticker required. :D

On my way home from work this morning I got to thinking... do they send "I voted" stickers in the mail with an absentee ballot? I don't think I ever received one and I feel almost cheated.

[Janos]

On my way home from work this morning I got to thinking... do they send "I voted" stickers in the mail with an absentee ballot? I don't think I ever received one and I feel almost cheated.

They haven't ever done so with mine.