Politics, hackers and the law

[FeatsofClay]

http://gawker.com/5051193/sarah-palins-personal-email-account-hacked

Did the internet just cause Sarah Palin to destroy evidence? The potential Veep is in a bit of trouble for using her personal, unarchived email address (gov.sarah@yahoo.com) to conduct state business. Which is, you know, questionable, because it violates public records requests and could stall information gathering in the Troopergate scandal. Now comes word that Anonymous, the fun-loving Internet gadflies based loosely around mostly lawless message board 4Chan, got a hold of the password to another Palin email account: gov.palin@yahoo.com. It all looks legit! The offending posts, screenshots, heretofore unseen family photos, and emails have all been deleted from Imageshack and 4Chan. But we have them. You want to read Sarah Palin's email?

Ok, sad thing first: a good Samaritan reset the password and tried to alert Sarah. But he also posted the new password, causing multiple people to try to log in at once, freezing the account for 24 hours. And now, the account has been deleted! Which is, as we said, maybe destruction of evidence? So for now this is, we think, all we'll get to see from this email account (if anyone finds evidence of saved emails, let us know.)

The full timeline of events, with corroborating evidence of the legitimacy of these screengrabs, is here. Here's why it all looks convincing:

The emails to Ivy Frye, a Palin aide who's mentioned in the earlier email stories specifically wondering how best to hide her correspondence with the governor.
The attached contact list (below) features an email address for husband Todd Palin that is legit. As well as an apparently genuine phone number for Bristol Palin and an address for Beth Leschper, Palin's deputy communications director.
The email from Amy McCorkell, a known associate of Palin's from Wasilla who might have the governor's personal email address.
Emails to and from Lt Governor Sean Parnell about a local radio talk host.
Calls to the phone number listed for Bristol Palin apparently go to her voicemail.
The public profile for the gov.palin address dates its last update to April of this year—well before she became McCain's running mate. So if it's a hoax, it's a hoax that began long before anyone outside of Alaska cared about Palin.
We haven't seen these family photos before. Have we?
The previously accessible public profiles for gov.sarah@yahoo and gov.palin@yahoo were both deleted at the same time.
Here are the screenshots of the emails saved before the account went dark, along with the contact list. It's newsworthy and we will not be taking it down!



I have not included the screenshots or the contact list. Mostly because this is a horrible invasion. Can anyone show me where it isn't?

IF she has destroyed this info, and it is illegal, wasn't she damned near FORCED to do so? Could this not de-hook her?

Someone with legal and 'puter insight wanna make me edumacated on this subject?

[Varaj]

I have not included the screenshots or the contact list. Mostly because this is a horrible invasion. Can anyone show me where it isn't?

Very much a very horrible invasion.


IF she has destroyed this info, and it is illegal, wasn't she damned near FORCED to do so? Could this not de-hook her?

Someone with legal and 'puter insight wanna make me edumacated on this subject?

I'm confused on why you think she was damned near FORCED to destroy her accounts?

[FeatsofClay]

I'm confused on why you think she was damned near FORCED to destroy her accounts?

Hmm, possibly a poor choice of words. Her privacy WAS invaded. The materials were gathered in an illegal way. (Yes? Please tell me this is illegal) I see it as collecting evidence poorly. Once invaded I would have attaempted to destroy it all. I mean, she has her kids pics in there.

Forced is bad. How about- If there is incriminating stuff is it still legal to use?

[Varaj]

Hmm, possibly a poor choice of words. Her privacy WAS invaded. The materials were gathered in an illegal way. (Yes? Please tell me this is illegal) I see it as collecting evidence poorly. Once invaded I would have attaempted to destroy it all. I mean, she has her kids pics in there.

Forced is bad. How about- If there is incriminating stuff is it still legal to use?

So if your house was broken into because you lost the key you would burn the house down instead of change the locks? :what:

As for the legality of of what was done, the answer is yes it is illegal if actual damages can be shown.


Forced is bad. How about- If there is incriminating stuff is it still legal to use?

If the police did not the break the law they can generally use what is available to the public.

[FeatsofClay]

So if your house was broken into because you lost the key you would burn the house down instead of change the locks? :what:

As for the legality of of what was done, the answer is yes it is illegal if actual damages can be shown.

From my understanding (I have now read 3-4 articles on this) It was hacked, the password was changed, it was rehacked. What do you do with info you cannot keep safe online? I wouldn't knwo what to do. :)




If the police did not the break the law they can generally use what is available to the public.

Wow. Stunning. So a PI could break in, get info and just hand it to police. Illegal search and seizure made legal? (For the cops)

[there_is_no_bob]

From my understanding (I have now read 3-4 articles on this) It was hacked, the password was changed, it was rehacked. What do you do with info you cannot keep safe online? I wouldn't knwo what to do. :)Nothing in a public e-mail can be kept safe from concentrated attack. It's just that pretty much no-one cares about yours.

If you want it secret, don't put it online.




Wow. Stunning. So a PI could break in, get info and just hand it to police. Illegal search and seizure made legal? (For the cops)So long as they have an inexhaustible supply of PIs unaffiliated with the police and willing to go to jail, sure.

[Varaj]

From my understanding (I have now read 3-4 articles on this) It was hacked, the password was changed, it was rehacked. What do you do with info you cannot keep safe online? I wouldn't knwo what to do. :)


Hacking is a funny word very loose. I'm willing to bet she used a weak password. If yahoo is that easily hacked let me ask you, if your house keeps getting broken into do you move or burn your stuff?


Wow. Stunning. So a PI could break in, get info and just hand it to police. Illegal search and seizure made legal? (For the cops)

Pretty much. Been that way for ever and hasn't really been a problem so I don't think it is a "loop hole" that has been taken that much advantage.

If you don't allow it a criminal can just arrange to have their info "illegally" grabbed and released to the public and then it can't be used in court. :)

[FeatsofClay]

Hacking is a funny word very loose. I'm willing to bet she used a weak password. If yahoo is that easily hacked let me ask you, if your house keeps getting broken into do you move or burn your stuff?


I am willing to be the vast majority of the public can move easier than re-arrange their email. Again, I would not know what to do except start erasing. :)


Pretty much. Been that way for ever and hasn't really been a problem so I don't think it is a "loop hole" that has been taken that much advantage.

If you don't allow it a criminal can just arrange to have their info "illegally" grabbed and released to the public and then it can't be used in court. :)


True. Props.

[Harry]

Wow. :boggle:

[Varaj]

I am willing to be the vast majority of the public can move easier than re-arrange their email. Again, I would not know what to do except start erasing. :)

She isn't the vast majority of the public she is a public figure with a legal responsibility to either know the information or know the people that know the information. It is her duty and there is little to know excuse for not.

This also assumes appropriate backups weren't made before the accounts were destroyed.

[Hatter]

She isn't the vast majority of the public she is a public figure with a legal responsibility to either know the information or know the people that know the information. It is her duty and there is little to know excuse for not.

This also assumes appropriate backups weren't made before the accounts were destroyed.

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet there's backups available from Yahoo with a subpoena.

[obryn]

This is insane. But then again, it's 4chan.

Anon is productive, but anon is also stupid. Breaking into Sarah Palin's email in the first place - Stupid. Bragging about it to 4chan before archiving the whole thing? Also stupid. The anon who broke in, if American, will likely go to jail without much of anything to show for it. Because believe me, the FBI and Secret Service will take hacking into a VP candidate's email seriously.

For that matter, the Hero may face some serious questioning as well.

Then again, she was conducting government business on freaking Yahoo Mail!?! IMHO, that's every bit as stupid. Yahoo's security is a joke.

-O

[obryn]

As a quick note, here's what passes for security on Yahoo! mail.

Want to get into someone's account? You need...

(1) Their date of birth
(2) Their zip code
(3) to decipher a Captcha. This is actually probably the hardest part of the whole damn process.

Then,

(4) you need to answer a single stupid security question like, "What's your pet's name?"

And that's it. Really - how tough is it to find any of this information on a public figure like, for example, a state governor? With these 4 bits of public information, you've changed their password and have access to all their emails and attachments. Possibly, too, their Flickr account and anything else on Yahoo's network. Yes, it will get changed back when they find out, but by then the damage has already been done. They might not even think twice about having to change their password it if you don't post about it on 4chan.

-O

[Name Lips]

Setec Astronomy...

While I can't help chortling on one hand because I know the revealed secrets could damage the Republican cause, I am also frightened.... Politics and government is based on secrets, on hidden agendas, on forbidden alliances, on quid-pro-quo deals, under-the-table negotiations, and ethically gray compromises. We all know this. We all turn up our noses and pretend to look the other way, but we know it's happening. It lubricates the works, gets things done. It's why only certain people have what it takes to succeed at politics and high-level business.

It could all come crashing down if they no longer have any reasonable expectation of secrecy or privacy. I might not approve of the wheeling and dealing, but I know my guys do it too and I know it's necessary to keep the wheels moving.

What would a world without secrets even look like?

And in the end, this puts the power in the hands of the hackers. If they pick and choose who they target, then who is picking and choosing the government?

They should be tracked down and prosecuted to the extent of the law.

[Janos]

It could all come crashing down if they no longer have any reasonable expectation of secrecy or privacy. I might not approve of the wheeling and dealing, but I know my guys do it too and I know it's necessary to keep the wheels moving.

And the moral of the story is... use more secure email, like the Alaskan government email system, the Federal system, etc.

To borrow from Varaj's house analogy, she has a home with an solid security system including cameras in every room in the house.

Palin, either out of stupidity or desire to keep things private, isn't in her house, she's out back in the pool house sniffing chlorine, sitting on a pool net and conducting business. The pool house lock is a pressboard door and a padlock key hidden in the fake rock in front of it.

Then she's amazed burglars got all her secrets and found her super duper secret pool house key.

[FeatsofClay]

Looking around it seem that all the Conservative commentators are making a HUE deal about tis and screaming about 'invasion of privacy' (which it was) and 'prosecution' (which I think there will be) and didn't feel nearly the same when Valerie Plame was outed by the current administration.

Hmmmmmm. :grey:

[obryn]

Hah. Looks like I was right about how the 'hacker' got in.

http://wonkette.com/402881/palin-e-mail-hacker-reveals-how-he-got-in-by-having-a-working-brain

-O

[Name Lips]

Hah. Looks like I was right about how the 'hacker' got in.

http://wonkette.com/402881/palin-e-mail-hacker-reveals-how-he-got-in-by-having-a-working-brain

-O

Yup, "Forgot your password?" is a big security hole. For people who stupidly type in easy answers, anyway.... :D

One of the commenters on that page had a good "5-second sound bite." :

Do we really want a woman who can't handle the responsibility of owning a Yahoo email account 1 heartbeat away from the nuclear launch codes?

[Hatter]

Yup, "Forgot your password?" is a big security hole. For people who stupidly type in easy answers, anyway.... :D

One of the commenters on that page had a good "5-second sound bite." :

Do we really want a woman who can't handle the responsibility of owning a Yahoo email account 1 heartbeat away from the nuclear launch codes?

That's disingenuous. Even as president she's wouldn't be allowed to personally compromise that kind of data.

[Varaj]

Heck I'm sure if anybody criticizes her they are just being elitist because they feel a VP candidate should have a fucking brain instead of the fricking rotten cabbage she appears to have.

[Hatter]

Heck I'm sure if anybody criticizes her they are just being elitist because they feel a VP candidate should have a fucking brain instead of the fricking rotten cabbage she appears to have.

Sexist!

[Dr. Paragon]

Sexist!

The Sexiest Sexy Sexist!
:D

[FeatsofClay]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/11/palin_must_save_her_yahoo_e-ma.html



Palin Must Save Her Yahoo E-Mails, Judge Rules
By Karl Vick
An Anchorage judge has ordered Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to preserve e-mails from private accounts she has used to conduct state business.

Superior Court Judge Craig Stowers on Friday also ordered Alaska's attorney general to recover messages from a Yahoo.com account of Palin's that was breached by hackers last month. That break-in prompted Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign to order closed at least one additional private account Palin maintained.

The judge issued the orders at the request of Andree McLeod, an Anchorage activist whose pursuit of Palin's e-mails revealed that the governor did considerable state business from a Yahoo e-mail address -- an arrangement that avoided the safeguards and accountability of the state's secure e-mail system.

Last month a second Yahoo account maintained by Palin was hacked and images of its inbox were posted publicly online. The inbox included e-mails with subject lines that seemed clearly to relate to legislation.

A Tennessee man was indicted Thursday on charges of illegally resetting Palin's password and posting several pages from gov.palin@yahoo.com.

Yet another private address outside the Yahoo system came to light earlier this month, when The Washington Post reported that Palin, her husband and close aides established last spring e-mail accounts that were apparently known only to one another. The accounts were nested within an Internet domain maintained by a Wasilla computer company. The company and the McCain campaign confirmed the existence of the accounts, although it was denied by Frank Bailey, the Palin aide who company officials said set up the accounts and had the authority to administer them.

The McCain campaign ordered those e-mail accounts for Palin and her husband frozen after the Yahoo hacking became known. The Yahoo breach also affected the functioning of state government.

"Until she was hacked, we were communicating just about daily," Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell told the Associated Press the following week. "Now I'm talking with her chief of staff."

Judge Stowers called the effort to recover and preserve Palin e-mails relating to state business "important" and noted that Alaska's public record law was last updated before the rise of the Internet.

"On one hand, I'm pleased that the judge saw fit to order the retrieval and preservation of these e-mails, to the extent of going to the providers to get them," said McLeod, a Republican who was formerly close to Palin. "But on the other hand, I'm amazed that I even have to go to court to get the governor to comply with Alaska's public record laws."

McLeod is also seeking the release by Palin of some 1,100 e-mails the governor held back from an earlier public records request, citing executive privilege. McLeod's lawyer asserts that Palin waived that privilege by routinely copying messages to her husband, Todd, who is not a state employee.

[Name Lips]

Well. That's interesting. A bit of validation for the hackers... Since it has now been revealed - one way or another - that she's conducting state business... I wonder if they'll retroactively look through her emails to make sure they meet accountability standards?