My rant about 4E rants

[Sobek]

Holy fuck! Some people are warped.

I can't find anywhere that a computer or the DDI are required to play 4E. I can't even find anywhere that indicates you'll have to have a computer to use 4E at the same level as 3.5 (or even earlier editions). For years, people have been bitching and moaning about how WotC dropped the ball by not having computer tools for chargen and campaign management that integrate tightly with new releases. There have also been suggestions that anyone who purchased a dead tree book should be able to get a PDF of said book pretty cheap.

So, why the fuck are so many people getting bent out of shape about the computer support for 4E? You'd think WotC is putting out the dead tree books filled with ads and with half-completed sentences that you need to long into DDI to complete.

WotC has said they aren't comfortable releasing too many concrete mechanical changes at this point. Instead, they're laying out their product model and hyping the new additions. Really? You don't say? They're making a big deal about some things that have never existed (in this context) before? Who'd have thunk.

Mother fucking, donkey fellatiating, tubgirl suckling idiots. These shitheads are driving me insane.

There are things I'm finding appealing (tiefling in the PHB), and that's normal. Some of these cocksuckers are out and out stating that WotC taunting them with expanded content will hurt their feelings and that means WotC is being mean (or something).

I'm going to have to stop posting at ENWorld for about a week, or I'm going to end up getting myself banned.

I'm tempted to crosspost this to CM, but I don't know that I really want to wade into that shit.

[Harry]

Well, for pretty much the same reason that I'm still pissed at the NFL for forcing radio simulcasts to cease and desist. Folks were getting something for free, the NFL saw a potential profit maker, and took it over. And replaced with nothing, at least, nothing any fan would truly want to use.

WotC is asking fans to pay for things they used to be able to get for free [wonder how HeroForge feels about this]. Or, in the case of products like Dragon or supplementals, stuff they could browse at ease before taking the dip. With the DI, you either get everything, or you get nothing.

[PWD]

Harry, your head ain't on straight.

WotC is asking fans to pay for things they used to be able to get for free - So? Are they making you? Is it possible what you'll get now is better than what you were getting for free? Isn't that worth something since you can still go get stuff for free anyhow?

wonder how HeroForge feels about this - why does it matter? They're a community group doing what they can for themselves. They'll do the same thing when 4E hits. That's what fans do. Did we shed tears over the fan efforts of 2E when 3E hit? God knows I didn't.

Or, in the case of products like Dragon or supplementals, stuff they could browse at ease before taking the dip. - Dragon/Dungeon doesn't exist any more. Go browse pathfinder if you want newsstand browsable magazine content.

With the DI, you either get everything, or you get nothing. - this is just silly.

[Ancalagon]

I think a "wait and see" attitude is wise. There was a *lot* of grief when 3e was first announced, and, IMO, it was a pretty darn good edition!

[there_is_no_bob]

I think a "wait and see" attitude is wise. There was a *lot* of grief when 3e was first announced, and, IMO, it was a pretty darn good edition!

Troof.


I'm not, at all, surprised that a new edition is coming out; they'd be stupid not to. And I have some high hopes that they'll manage to fix some of the issues I have with 3.x; I'm really, really hoping they manage a better matching of flavour to mechanics, frex.

[Bagpuss]

WotC is asking fans to pay for things they used to be able to get for free

like what?

[ColonelHardisson]

like what?

That's a really good question. It's not been made clear what D&D Insider will include, and whether it will subsume the web content already available via the WotC website. My own guess is that WotC will still provide free content, as they have always done. Whether it will be as much as before is hard to say.

[Sobek]

I think a "wait and see" attitude is wise. There was a *lot* of grief when 3e was first announced, and, IMO, it was a pretty darn good edition!

In truth, this is where I stand. My group is looking to move to Fantasy Hero or nWoD, anyway, so 4E will have to do something to really catch our attention. My rant is about the people who are acting like the sky is falling or WotC is being eeeeevil.

Well, for pretty much the same reason that I'm still pissed at the NFL for forcing radio simulcasts to cease and desist. Folks were getting something for free, the NFL saw a potential profit maker, and took it over. And replaced with nothing, at least, nothing any fan would truly want to use.

And whose operation is WotC strongarming out? Market forces, maybe, but who is getting the equivalent of a C&D?

WotC is asking fans to pay for things they used to be able to get for free

Name one single, solitary thing. Not conjecture or guesswork, but any specific thing that you have cause to believe exists for free on the WotC site today that won't be free under DDI. Remember, WotC has said that much of the current free content (or something like it) will remain free.

[wonder how HeroForge feels about this].

About what? That WotC will have a character generator online? My guess is that they feel pretty good. HF was an unpaid effort, was pretty labor-intensive to write, and only supported official rules (six months or so after release). Now, they can have the same thing available to them without the work and in a more timely fashion.

If the WotC chargen tool sucks, then HeroForge will continue to exist. As will PCGen, RPGX, etc. All those came into existence after WotC tried to get into the market, so the simple existence of a WotC entrant doesn't automatically kill the competition.

Or, in the case of products like Dragon or supplementals, stuff they could browse at ease before taking the dip. With the DI, you either get everything, or you get nothing.

What's to say that the new Dragon won't be like a lot of online papers that allow you to read the first couple paragraphs of an article without a subscription? They've already said they're going to be bundling the monthly magazine content into numbered issues. Maybe you can browse and download a single issue. Seems pretty likely, actually.

[GreyOne]

I'm really concerned about 5th Edition now.

[King Vyper]

You can hear all of the asshats on Enworld and the RPGsite wailing all the way over on fucking Dragonsfoot. All the DFers think this is the funniest shit ever and are having a good laugh about it.

[ColonelHardisson]

All the DFers think this is the funniest shit ever and are having a good laugh about it.

I figured as much.

Me, I'm staying away from most 4e threads at EN World. The obviously informational ones are fine, but I'm getting tired of the ones that are simply speculation or complaining. The worst are the supposedly funny ones, the ones where people make up oh-so-clever (in their minds) satirical overviews of what 4e is like, or speculate on 5e. Right now, all that stuff seems like a monumental waste of time. As comedy writers or satirists, these guys make great fatbeards.

Nobody knows anything except what gets posted in the "What we know" thread or on EN World's front page. The rest is just hot air (or whatever the internet equivalent is). Fuck, I can easily wait to see what the game is actually like. The stuff we actually know sounds promising for the most part. I enjoy getting each new tidbit, and WotC has been surprisingly good at doling out information. There are some specifics I would like to know, which would help me determine exactly which 3e books I want to get rid of, but again, I can wait.

[GreyOne]

I figured as much.

Me, I'm staying away from most 4e threads at EN World. The obviously informational ones are fine, but I'm getting tired of the ones that are simply speculation or complaining. The worst are the supposedly funny ones, the ones where people make up oh-so-clever (in their minds) satirical overviews of what 4e is like, or speculate on 5e. Right now, all that stuff seems like a monumental waste of time. As comedy writers or satirists, these guys make great fatbeards.

Nobody knows anything except what gets posted in the "What we know" thread or on EN World's front page. The rest is just hot air (or whatever the internet equivalent is). Fuck, I can easily wait to see what the game is actually like. The stuff we actually know sounds promising for the most part. I enjoy getting each new tidbit, and WotC has been surprisingly good at doling out information. There are some specifics I would like to know, which would help me determine exactly which 3e books I want to get rid of, but again, I can wait.



So what you're saying Colonel, is that you're concerned about 5th edition too?

[Ancalagon]

So what you're saying Colonel, is that you're concerned about 5th edition too?

7e is going to suck monkey balls. They're completely revambing the career path system... why?!?! That was the best part of the game! And replacing the trandoshian race with the half-troll/half-gnome is just sick.

[Bagpuss]

I'm just glad they are reintroducing Thac0 in 9E it's starting to make sense to us old timers again.

[there_is_no_bob]

I'm just glad they are reintroducing Thac0 in 9E it's starting to make sense to us old timers again.

Yeah, but 11E is going to introduce ThacPI.

I mean, sure, your neural implant lets you figure it all out in a picosecond, but that's just going too far!

[cnath.rm]

You can hear all of the asshats on Enworld and the RPGsite wailing all the way over on fucking Dragonsfoot. All the DFers think this is the funniest shit ever and are having a good laugh about it.It reminds me of the letters to the editor in Dragon with people complaining about the transition from 3.0 to 3.5, I missed the ones complaining about the transition from 2nd to 3rd, but in an old issue of Dragon I picked up I found people saying the exact things about the change from 1st to 2nd edition. "What do you mean you won't be supporting the old game?!?!, you owe me for all the books I bought, my world is coming to an end, etc."

The only version of the core 3.5 rules that I own is the Mongoose Pocket Players Handbook (which I'm enjoying) and I'd still be playing either 3.0 or a mix of the two if the group I found wasn't playing 3.5 (and damn it, I like the 3.0 version of Harm better!!)

EDIT:
Yeah, but 11E is going to introduce ThacPI.

I mean, sure, your neural implant lets you figure it all out in a picosecond, but that's just going too far!Damn it!!! I'm never going to buy anything that Paizo Necromancer Wizards of the White Wolf Coast (a division of Stark/Fujicawa/Hasbro/Nabisco) puts out again after this horrible injustice!!!!

[Maddman]

Personally, I would have more faith in WotC's DI if they had ever put out anything electronic that didn't suck ass. "Gleemax" does not exactly fill me with hope. I saw their plastic brain in a jar at GenCon and discovered that even at this late age, I could still feel ashamed to be a gamer.

But I'm another this won't affect much, unless they make changes to the feel and philosophy I don't see me moving back to D&D signifigantly.

[Lucita]

So, why the fuck are so many people getting bent out of shape about the computer support for 4E?

Gamers are fanboys.

Fanboys, by and large, fear change.

Their spending habits are also incredibly bizarre and ecologists have yet to find any sort of rhyme or reason. One-time expenditures are typically tolerated, whether it be $10 for a set of dice or $40 for a book, but any ongoing expense (such as DDI's subscription model) is viewed as some sort of personal affront.

The wild fanboy also does not typically realize that he is not required to buy every single book that is released. For example, I have yet to purchase the Shadowrun 4e book Street Magic because I feel it retreads too much ground from 3e's Magic in the Shadows (remember kids, never leave home without yout MITtenS) without adding significantly. So far, my home has yet to be raided by FASA/FanPro/Catalyst/Whoever the hell is publishing Shadowrun this week.

[Dacke]

So far, my home has yet to be raided by FASA/FanPro/Catalyst/Whoever the hell is publishing Shadowrun this week.
From my old Earthdawn rulebook: "Besides, no one is going to stop by your house in the middle of the night to check on how you’re playing Earthdawn. FASA hasn’t finished checking up on all its Shadowrun players yet."