Anti-elitist. From both homes. And her jet.

[FeatsofClay]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/17/prominent-clinton-backer-and-dnc-member-to-endorse-mccain-2/?=asinine

Prominent Clinton backer and DNC member to endorse McCain
Posted: 10:45 AM ET

From CNN Political Editor Mark Preston


Lynn Forester de Rothschild was a strong supporter of Clinton's White House bid.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Lynn Forester de Rothschild, a prominent Hillary Clinton supporter and member of the Democratic National Committee’s Platform Committee, will endorse John McCain for president on Wednesday, her spokesman tells CNN.

The announcement will take place at a news conference on Capitol Hill, just blocks away from the DNC headquarters. Forester will “campaign and help him through the election,” the spokesman said of her plans to help the Republican presidential nominee.

Forester was a major donor for Clinton earning her the title as a Hillraiser for helping to raise at least $100,000 for the New York Democratic senator’s failed presidential bid.

In an interview with CNN this summer, Forester did not hide her distaste for eventual Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

“This is a hard decision for me personally because frankly I don't like him,” she said of Obama in an interview with CNN’s Joe Johns. “I feel like he is an elitist. I feel like he has not given me reason to trust him.”

Forester is the CEO of EL Rothschild, a holding company with businesses around the world. She is married to international banker Sir Evelyn de Rothschild. Forester is a member of the DNC’s Democrats Abroad chapter and splits her time living in London and New York.


CEO, married to an "international banker" Knight! Private jet, homes on two continents in two of the toughest real estate markets. Member of the DNC Platform Committee and endorsing McCain because Obama is "elitist".

Democrats- the party of self-sabotage.

[Trainz]

:what:

[Ink Bleeder]

I guess I'll never understand when we, as a country, decided we didn't want the smartest kid in the class running the country. Somewhere along the line, we apparently decided that only an average Joe would do - someone just like us, who has no real knowledge of economics, history, or diplomacy. Anyone with higher education is suspect unless they got shitty grades.

Help! My country is being run as if it were a middle-school cafeteria! :wah:

[Utrecht]

I guess I'll never understand when we, as a country, decided we didn't want the smartest kid in the class running the country. Somewhere along the line, we apparently decided that only an average Joe would do - someone just like us, who has no real knowledge of economics, history, or diplomacy. Anyone with higher education is suspect unless they got shitty grades.

Help! My country is being run as if it were a middle-school cafeteria! :wah:


Because High Intelligence does not equal High Wisdom - and both are needed to be effective.

and Intesteller - remember the mirage of America and the American dream - and the dislike of anything resembling Nobelity (I know Bush and Princess Diana are an absolute contradiction to this - but in general, it is a fair statement)

[Ink Bleeder]

Because High Intelligence does not equal High Wisdom - and both are needed to be effective.

and Intesteller - remember the mirage of America and the American dream - and the dislike of anything resembling Nobelity (I know Bush and Princess Diana are an absolute contradiction to this - but in general, it is a fair statement)

I agree with you about wisdom, but I don't think that's why folks are balking at Obama - and while being a good scholar doesn't necessarily lead to wisdom, it sure as hell doesn't preclude it. As for resistance to nobility, well, since when did being a black child raised by a single mom and putting yourself through college on student loans mean "elite?" The Bush contradiction you mention only further confuses the matter.

[Trainz]

Because High Intelligence does not equal High Wisdom - and both are needed to be effective.

Indeed, but since when does High Intelligence automatically dissmisses you from having High Wisdom?

They don't go hand in hand, but one helps the other.

[Utrecht]

Indeed, but since when does High Intelligence automatically dissmisses you from having High Wisdom?

They don't go hand in hand, but one helps the other.

and I think that we are getting into one of the cruxes of Obama - you likely think that he has high wisdom and I see him as an empty suit doing what his party wants/needs to get elected. (and yes, you can say the same about McCain - but at least McCain has been around the block more than once)

[Utrecht]

I agree with you about wisdom, but I don't think that's why folks are balking at Obama - and while being a good scholar doesn't necessarily lead to wisdom, it sure as hell doesn't preclude it. As for resistance to nobility, well, since when did being a black child raised by a single mom and putting yourself through college on student loans mean "elite?" The Bush contradiction you mention only further confuses the matter.

Because Obama has a history of using the $5 dollar words - when the 25 cent ones would work better.


Because Bush is from a very dynastic family and while good as playing himself as one of the common folks -

[Name Lips]

Huh. Well I don't like it when candidates talk down to me, personally. I'm a big boy. I can handle the scary, big words.

[Utrecht]

Huh. Well I don't like it when candidates talk down to me, personally. I'm a big boy. I can handle the scary, big words.

Well I would hardly say that you (or myself) represent the vast majority of Americans - and big scary words = elitist to them

[Name Lips]

And I'd also prefer to be mediocre and ruled by the elite, than be elite and ruled by the mediocre.

edit: looked it up. 29% of Americans have a college degree of some sort. While they're definitely the minority, I'm not sure the other 71% count as a vast majority. But I guess it's a subjective term... But I think it's more accurately used when we say something like the vast majority of wealth is in the hands of a vast minority of people.

[FeatsofClay]

Because Bush is from a very dynastic family and while good as playing himself as one of the common folks -

You mean McCain, right? I mean, two admirals in direct lineage...more demerits than any other graduate of the naval academy, 4th form the bottom of his class of nearly 900 and STILL gets good assignments. You meant McCain, surely.

And this:


and Intesteller - remember the mirage of America and the American dream - and the dislike of anything resembling Nobelity (I know Bush and Princess Diana are an absolute contradiction to this - but in general, it is a fair statement)

This is hilarious in a thread about a woman with houses on two continents married to a knighted man criticizing Obama for being elite.

Careful, Utrecht, you have always had my respect but you are starting to sound a wee bit like a caricature of Limbaugh.

[Trainz]

and I think that we are getting into one of the cruxes of Obama - you likely think that he has high wisdom and I see him as an empty suit doing what his party wants/needs to get elected. (and yes, you can say the same about McCain - but at least McCain has been around the block more than once)

I have truly no idea which one would make the better president, and neither do you.

What I DO know, is that voting Rep this time around is basically telling the reps "Go on doing what you've been doing the past 8 years, we like it". If you think it was all Bush's fault, then you're deluded. Parties rule nations, not single men.

[Utrecht]

You mean McCain, right? I mean, two admirals in direct lineage...more demerits than any other graduate of the naval academy, 4th form the bottom of his class of nearly 900 and STILL gets good assignments. You meant McCain, surely.

And this:


This is hilarious in a thread about a woman with houses on two continents married to a knighted man criticizing Obama for being elite.


McCain - which is why you really dont hear much about his record other than the POW thing.

as far the woman - idiot....


Careful, Utrecht, you have always had my respect but you are starting to sound a wee bit like a caricature of Limbaugh.

I think you misunderstand (or I am not clear) I am saying that the average American is seduced by the IMAGE of one of us - even though it has no bearing in reality.

Look at the two candidates - McCain is the very definition of American nobility. Obama - not at all. But which one uses the big words? Which one dresses in the shirt and tie while sitting in Marge's Dinner eating blueberry pie?The perception is that McCain is one of us (which is why the house flap was so damaging to him) - Obama is a Harvard Educated Lawyer (another perceived strike) who uses big words.

To be clear, there are many reasons not to vote for Obama (IMO) but his use of big words - or being elitist are (again IMO) not amoung them.

[FeatsofClay]

I think you misunderstand (or I am not clear) I am saying that the average American is seduced by the IMAGE of one of us - even though it has no bearing in reality.

Look at the two candidates - McCain is the very definition of American nobility. Obama - not at all. But which one uses the big words? Which one dresses in the shirt and tie while sitting in Marge's Dinner eating blueberry pie?The perception is that McCain is one of us (which is why the house flap was so damaging to him) - Obama is a Harvard Educated Lawyer (another perceived strike) who uses big words.

To be clear, there are many reasons not to vote for Obama (IMO) but his use of big words - or being elitist are (again IMO) not amoung them.

HAHA! The Utrecht I know and love. :) Sorry if we had reached a misunderstanding. :)

[AZRogue]

A lot of Americans don't want to be lead by the guy who sneers at them and looks down on their way of life. The sneer doesn't have to be even close to real, just perceived. They're looking for it and will find it, in most cases. Electing the brightest person comes in a distant second to that, IMO.

Personally, I look at issues before intelligence. Well, that and integrity and honesty, but I haven't found much of those lately. If the guy believes in the same issues as I do, I will trust him to appoint some sharp guys to his cabinet. Being smart definitely helps, though.

[Sobek]

CEO, married to an "international banker" Knight! Private jet, homes on two continents in two of the toughest real estate markets. Member of the DNC Platform Committee and endorsing McCain because Obama is "elitist".

A lot of Americans don't want to be lead by the guy who sneers at them and looks down on their way of life.
Add these two together. There is a difference between being "elite" and being "elitist".

I know people who have multiple houses, man-servants, and bring in money at the level of professional athletes but are great, down-to-earth folk who are great to crack a drink with. I also know folks who make close to poverty who constantly boss others around, find ways to condescend, and are generally cliqueish. The former are "elite". The latter are "elitist".

Not that I have any illusions of anyone in the White House this millenium being truly earthy, but I could easily see where Obama is more elitist than the norm.

Or, maybe he just snubbed her.

[Name Lips]

Add these two together. There is a difference between being "elite" and being "elitist".



I totally agree there... most disputes boil down to a failure to define terms, IMO.

But the two words are starting to be used interchangeable. Palin for instance specifically called out the "Washington elite." Not the "Washington elitists."

Are we just supposed to know what they mean on context? That seems a way of muddying a perfectly good - and complementary - word.

[Sobek]

I totally agree there... most disputes boil down to a failure to define terms, IMO.

But the two words are starting to be used interchangeable. Palin for instance specifically called out the "Washington elite." Not the "Washington elitists."

Are we just supposed to know what they mean on context? That seems a way of muddying a perfectly good - and complementary - word.
Likewise, agreed.

Depending on who you're talking to, one is probably as good of a slam as the other.

But, clarity is rarely good for a politician. Especially in election season.

[Badwednesday]

and I think that we are getting into one of the cruxes of Obama - you likely think that he has high wisdom and I see him as an empty suit doing what his party wants/needs to get elected. (and yes, you can say the same about McCain - but at least McCain has been around the block more than once)

I understand what you mean when you say someone with great intelligence may not have great wisdom.

I think it is foolish and will never agree that age means greater wisdom. I feel the same for experience (which can ONLY bring wisdom if you are smart enough to learn from it).

(edited for clarity)

[AZRogue]

Age doesn't breed great wisdom. Experience, however, such as the experience that comes with age, can temper foolishness. You don't have to agree with the elderly, but they've seen a few more things than we have and so deserve a listen, at least.

[Badwednesday]

Alright, I think I need a definition to continue this discussion...

Wisdom/Wise:

1. having the power of discerning and judging properly as to what is true or right; possessing discernment, judgment, or discretion.
2. characterized by or showing such power; judicious or prudent: a wise decision.
3. possessed of or characterized by scholarly knowledge or learning; learned; erudite: wise in the law.
4. having knowledge or information as to facts, circumstances, etc.: We are wiser for their explanations (from Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006)

Wisdom is having gained knowledge, understanding, experience, discretion, and intuitive understanding, along with a capacity to apply these qualities well. It is the judicious application of knowledge. To some extent the terms wisdom and intelligence have similar and overlapping meanings. The status of wisdom or prudence as a virtue is recognized in cultural, philosophical and religious sources. (from wikipedia).

So wisdom is not only about intelligence or experience, but is about the ability to apply what one has learned.

I'd also argue that an older individual has had the potential to have more experience, but age does not always equal experience and certainly does not automatically mean a greater ability to apply what one has learned from one's experiences toward future decisions.

But I think we've now gotten off topic in this tread...