Nationalism, sovereignty and other 16th century ideas

[FeatsofClay]

Is Nationalism anywhere near it's end? Does it REALLY serve a purpose? How far out are we from the science fiction writer's 'Earth Government'? Will it happen?

[Name Lips]

It's always strange thinking that "nationalism" didn't really exist before then... but I do think it's dwindling. People aren't really taking as much pride in where they were born, and are looking at other nations objectively as "worse" or "better" places to live than their own.

[Eliezer]

One of the great triumphs of nationalism (and it was and still is a great thing) is extending the sense of tribe to a larger group. There has been forces working to change humanities perception of that tribe to the larger set to all humans. It is moving forward slowly, but we're working with and against some very primitive and fundamental parts of the brain.

It's a historical phenomena that is so universal it is hard to delve into history without describing it. It is the perception of our "group", our tribe, our nation and the barbarian/heathen/outsider/other. One of the consistent characteristics of any of the great empires of the ancient world was a willingness to extend this sense of community to the conquered peoples and make them part of the "us" and not the unwashed barbarian "other".

Psychologically, the phenomena has received a lot of study in recent years and is integral to our altruistic behavior circuits in our brain. We treat members of the "us" group altruistically. We treat the "outsider" as less than that. It's the psychological basis for how the holocaust could occur. When we talk about de-humanizing someone or a group it is the psychological equivalent of casting them as the "other" and not the "us".

So yes, we'll head there, but it's going to take more time.

[AZRogue]

Best way to extend the sense of tribe to the rest of the world would be to manufacture some outside threat. Alien armada approaching would make great propaganda. ;)

[Eliezer]

Best way to extend the sense of tribe to the rest of the world would be to manufacture some outside threat. Alien armada approaching would make great propaganda. ;)

There's a sci-fi book (http://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Used-Universe/dp/1587150492) that takes that theme and extends it one further to meld together two warring alien races (humans and another).

[Sobek]

For Nationalism to wane, you need a replacement. The only replacement I see are ideologies. Whether that's socialism, Islam, environmentalism, or something else, the only way to unify people is to give them something to rally around.

Some of those others scare me more than nationalism. And, they will create a lot of hardships as geography lines up with ideology. I'm not likely to team up with a socialist, for example, and not inclined to move from where I am. I'd happily take arms with someone from Japan, Kenya, or even Nebraska, though, to keep the government out of certain aspects of life. Alternatively, if the US went far enough left and I didn't see a way to fix it, I'd be just fine moving to any of those areas because it's the ideology, not the name of the country that's important to me.

I said something about US sovereignty in another thread. My main concern with US sovereignty is that I see it as the current best embodiment of a free-market driven, religiously tolerant (even supportive), society. Those are the ideals I seek to protect and grow by maintaining US sovereignty. The name, territory, and genetics are largely irrelevant, other than I happen to be in the spot I am at the moment.

[Pigs in Space]

It would be cool if aliens turned up.



Or if the prophecy of shadowrun turned out to be true.