Douchebag or not?

[FeatsofClay]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/09/09/iraq.secret/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The dramatic drop in violence in Iraq is due in large part to a secret program the U.S. military has used to kill terrorists, according to a new book by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Bob Woodward.


Bob Woodward's book, "The War Within: Secret White House History 2006-2008," came out Monday.

The program -- which Woodward compares to the World War II era Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bomb -- must remain secret for now or it would "get people killed," Woodward said Monday on CNN's Larry King Live.

"It is a wonderful example of American ingenuity solving a problem in war, as we often have," Woodward said.

In "The War Within: Secret White House History 2006-2008," Woodward disclosed the existence of secret operational capabilities developed by the military to locate, target and kill leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq and other insurgent leaders.

National security adviser Stephen Hadley, in a written statement reacting to Woodward's book, acknowledged the new strategy. Yet he disputed Woodward's conclusion that the "surge" of 30,000 U.S. troops into Iraq was not the primary reason for the decline in violent attacks.

"It was the surge that provided more resources and a security context to support newly developed techniques and operations," Hadley wrote.

Woodward, associate editor of the Washington Post, wrote that along with the surge and the new covert tactics, two other factors helped reduce the violence. Watch Bob Woodward explain the strategy »

One was the decision of militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr to order a cease-fire by his Mehdi Army. The other was the "Anbar Awakening" movement that saw Sunni tribes aligning with U.S. troops to battle al Qaeda in Iraq.

Woodward told Larry King that while there is a debate over how much credit the new secret operations should get for the drop in violence, he concluded it "accounts for a good portion."

"I would somewhat compare it to the Manhattan Project in World War II," he said "It's a ski slope right down in a matter of months, cutting the violence in half. This isn't going to happen with the bunch of joint security stations or the surge."

The top secret operations, he said, will "some day in history ... be described to people's amazement."

While he would not reveal the details, Woodward said the terrorists who have been targeted were already aware of the capabilities.


"The enemy has a heads up because they've been getting wiped out and a lot of them have been killed," he said. "It's not news to them.

"If you were a member of al Qaeda or the resistance or some extremist militia, you would be wise to get your rear end out of town," Woodward said. "It is very dangerous."


It has to remain secret or it would "get people killed". So he wrote a book on it.

HUH?

[PWD]

It has to remain secret or it would "get people killed". So he wrote a book on it.

HUH?

While he would not reveal the details, Woodward said the terrorists who have been targeted were already aware of the capabilities.

What exactly was he exposing? They know.

[Eliezer]

douchebag

[Name Lips]

Comparing whatever it is to the Manhattan Project is a bit over the top, unless this technique involves amazing and dramatic new technology as world-changing as atomic power.

[Singularity]

Douchebag

[AZRogue]

I'd say douchebag, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out that we have been targeting terrorist leaders.

I guess I would be surprised to find out that the government had stolen that laster from Real Genius. If a terrorist camp suddenly fills with popcorn, we'll know.

[Harry]

It's Bob Woodward. Doesn't that answer your question?

[FeatsofClay]

Comparing whatever it is to the Manhattan Project is a bit over the top, unless this technique involves amazing and dramatic new technology as world-changing as atomic power.


If it is what I think it is the new technology is easily as world changing as the bomb. Possibly even atomic power. It changes EVERYTHING.

[AZRogue]

If it is what I think it is the new technology is easily as world changing as the bomb. Possibly even atomic power. It changes EVERYTHING.

Care to share? I know of a safe-house if the feds come looking for you after. ;)

It's that laser from Real Genius, isn't it?

[Singularity]

It's mind reading technology. They can just sit back and listen for who's plotting against them and BOOM! Cruise missile up their ass!

[Name Lips]

It could be the handheld lie detectors I read about. Those aren't really secret, though, and are less accurate than polygraphs which makes them useless in my mind.

[Pigs in Space]

I'd say douchebag, though I wouldn't be surprised to find out that we have been targeting terrorist leaders.
I'd be more surprised if they weren't!

Surely as part of the war on terror, the US has black ops guys chasing/hunting known terrorists all over the globe.


You know, like that Bourne guy they make the movies about. He'd be up for it.

[FeatsofClay]

Care to share? I know of a safe-house if the feds come looking for you after. ;)

It's that laser from Real Genius, isn't it?

I am behind a couple of NDAs here. Sorry. :)

Edit: I can make some calls and see if it is discussable. It IS fascinating stuff.

[AZRogue]

I am behind a couple of NDAs here. Sorry. :)

Edit: I can make some calls and see if it is discussable. It IS fascinating stuff.

Really? You actually know enough to be behind a NDA? That's pretty crazy, amigo. You're not an assassin during your spare time, as a hobby, are you? ;)

[FeatsofClay]

Really? You actually know enough to be behind a NDA? That's pretty crazy, amigo. You're not an assassin during your spare time, as a hobby, are you? ;)

Not near. :)

A few years back I helped with a Landmine removal design. I signed TON of paperwork then. Last year I threw out another idea...it didn't go as far :)

Consequently I have gotten to chat with some cool, cool military types. This reminds me of a tossed around idea that seemed FAR off at the time. :)

[AZRogue]

That's very interesting. If you discover you can share anything, please do. :)

[PWD]

We've heard of things like gait analysis, since it's near-impossible to disguise a walking style... take video of known terrorist walking, and you can pick him out of a crowd anywhere.

All kinds of crazy neat stuff coming down the pipe. Some of it not only scary but potentially useful. :D

[Ancalagon]

A friend of mine has speculated that there was a recent discovery that you can identify people with reasonable accuracy in satellite photos by doing some fancy analysis on the shadow they cast.

[Pigs in Space]

In a related note, I know the Aussie defence radars at short ranges can pick up things as small as the height/depression of ink on the surface of newspapers.

Imagine 100 years when that keeps being developed...

[FeatsofClay]

That's very interesting. If you discover you can share anything, please do. :)

It may be out already. :)

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/09/whats-the-milit.html

What Is Woodward's 'Secret Weapon' in Iraq?
By Sharon Weinberger September 09, 2008 | 3:06:00 PMCategories: You can run...


Everyone's buzzing about the "sophisticated and lethal special operations program" that Bob Woodward alluded to in his recent 60 Minutes interview. An important question is: what in the heck was Woodward talking about? Secret death rays? The Voice of God weapon? It's enough to make me break from my current coffee shop lounging existence to chime in with some thoughts on the subject. First, let's review what Woodward said in the interview:

"This is very sensitive and very top secret, but there are secret operational capabilities that have been developed by the military to locate, target and kill leaders of al-Qaida in Iraq, insurgent leaders, renegade militia leaders. That is one of the true breakthroughs," Woodward told Pelley.

"But what are we talking about here? It's some kind of surveillance? Some kind of targeted way of taking out just the people that you're looking for?" Pelley asked.

"I'd love to go through the details, but I'm not going to," Woodward replied.... "If you were an al-Qaida leader … and you knew about what they were able to do, you'd get your ass outta town."


I'm going to make a wager about what I think Woodward is talking about, and I'll be curious to see what Danger Room readers have to say. I believe he is talking about the much ballyhooed (in defense geek circles) "Tagging, Tracking and Locating" program; here's a briefing on it from Special Operations Command. These are newfangled technologies designed to track people from long distances, without the targeted people realizing they are being tracked. That can theoretically include thermal signatures, or some sort of "taggant" placed on a person. Think Will Smith in Enemy of the State. Well, not so many cameras, maybe.

Why do I think this is the technology Woodward is referring to? Well, first, because it pretty much fits the bill, in terms of the type of capability he appears to be talking about. It has involvement from a number of players, including the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency and Special Operations Command. Also, the Defense Science Board has talked about this capability in similar terms, saying "the global war on terrorism cannot be won without a ‘Manhattan Project’-like TTL [tagging, tracking, and locating] program."

Do I, however, think that there really has been some great big breakthrough, that, in Woodward's words, is the equivalent of the "advent of the tank and the airplane?" Or, in the case of the Manhattan Project comparison, the atomic bomb? I don't know what Woodward has been presented with, or what he knows of these capabilities, but I'm not convinced it's as dramatic a technological breakthrough as he seems to suggest. That said, I suppose it could be, but it looks like we'll have to wait to see more details.

[Name Lips]

"Tracking" could constitute be something as simple as GPS devices. Miniaturized so that they're a tiny microchip, virtually impossible to detect... But just knowing where a terrorist goes when he "escapes" the Americans would be a huge deal.

[FeatsofClay]

"Tracking" could constitute be something as simple as GPS devices. Miniaturized so that they're a tiny microchip, virtually impossible to detect... But just knowing where a terrorist goes when he "escapes" the Americans would be a huge deal.

Or, say, an isotope that is rare and can be sensed form 40,000 ft.?

Now, lets say we can notice a combo. One on known safe houses and when the target enters said house the combo alerts unmanned vehicles semi-permanently flying over the whole region at insane heights. They are then painted.

[Eliezer]

Hmm, a small GPS device...

It may be possible to make a micro GPS device, but energy sources are always the rub. GPS relies upon performing calculations based on reception of radio signals from various satellites. There's a British guy who could probably figure out how to make a GPS device that was powered off of the radio signal in a fashion similar to how an RFID tag works by being powered by the RF signal sent by the reader. (This is the same guy who invented the battery-less land mine detector that created an audible crackle.)

However, getting a passive device to figure out where it is at is only half of the problem. The next problem is getting this micro device to transmit it's location to a receiver. That's a much greater challenge and requires a lot of energy that would be hard if not currently impossible in a micro device. Especially given that we'd be tagging low level operatives and then following them for days to find out where they go, noticing patterns among various folks and then performing analysis to find out where HQ is and identify the leaders. So the requirement to track for many days eliminates GPS in my mind.

Clay's suggestion of a radio isotope that could be tracked by a drone is an excellent one. I've discussed with a nuclear engineer (guy who designs nuclear reactors) radiation containment. Neutron radiation is usually the most dangerous and is easily blocked by lots of hydrogen, so water, paraffin, etc work well. Alpha is casual to block, beta isn't much harder. Gamma is a bitch. It's highly penetrating, but the good news is because it is so penetrating it's less likely to collide with molecules in your body and cause problems. There are lots of isotopes that are gamma emitters. Some emit gamma rays that are more energetic than others.


Strontium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strontium) 85 is a gamma emitting isotope. Strontium could be used for this type of tracking since it can replace calcium in the bones in a calcium deficient diet. Take a prisoner, give them water with lots of fluoride to help leach calcium from the bones and then give them Strontium 85 laced foods. (In the bikini atoll this is what poisoned the natives who returned. Plants would take up the radioactive Strontium instead of calcium in the calcium poor soil and it would be consumed by the natives and give them bone or blood cancer years later.) They would stay radioactive for long periods of time (several years) and emit detectable gamma rays. Cocktails of various isotopes could be used to create "signatures" of gamma rays of various energy levels. (Just like visible light has a spectrum of colors, the right detectors can see the "colors" of different gamma rays.)

So yeah, radio isotope tagging of gamma emitters and tracked with drones makes lots of sense. It's technologically feasible since we've been investing heavily in gamma (and beta) detection technology to support NEST (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Emergency_Support_Team) as well as other government agencies and programs.

[AZRogue]

Or, say, an isotope that is rare and can be sensed form 40,000 ft.?

Now, lets say we can notice a combo. One on known safe houses and when the target enters said house the combo alerts unmanned vehicles semi-permanently flying over the whole region at insane heights. They are then painted.

Wow, that would be insanely crazy, and very effective. Pretty cool stuff.