Remember that jet Palin "sold" on Ebay?

[FeatsofClay]

Yeah, not so much.

It wasn't sold. An attempt was made to sell it onlone, but not on Ebay as she stated. The state still owns it and is paying over $60k every quarter on it.

http://www.adn.com/sarah-palin/story/203814.html

Palin tries new tactic to unload hated jet (4/22/2007)

By KYLE HOPKINS | khopkins@adn.com / Anchorage Daily News

Published: September 2nd, 2008 04:40 PM
Last Modified: September 2nd, 2008 04:44 PM

Editor's note: This story was originally published April 22, 2007

The state has tried selling its unwanted jet online four times and failed. So last week, the Palin administration signed a contract with an Anchorage aircraft broker who thinks he can succeed where eBay couldn't The eBay thing didn't work out very well, said Dan Spencer, director of administrative services for the Department of Public Safety. He's the person charged with trying to get rid of the infamous Westwind II.

The administration made a deal last week with Turbo North Aviation, promising the broker a 1.49 percent cut of the selling price.

Former Gov. Frank Murkowski bought the jet, which cost the state about $2.6 million, over the protests of the Legislature and used it to fly around the state, sometimes mixing campaign errands with government business.

After he defied almost everyone to acquire it, the jet became a political albatross for Murkowski. Gov. Sarah Palin beat Murkowski bad in last August's Republican primary. One of her campaign promises was to sell the plane and she's been trying to unload it for months. Robert Heckmann owns Turbo North Aviation. He said his company has sold more than 1,800 planes including two dozen or so jets in the past 27 years.

Spencer said Heckmann suggested the asking price of $2,450,000, based on the current jet market.


The state's definitely not going to give this plane away. If that was the case, then they would have sold it on eBay Heckmann said. He described prospective buyers a governments, corporate entities, oil companies, movie stars, well-to-do people.

Meanwhile, the state is stuck making quarterly payments of about $62,000 on the Westwind II. So is the state sick of dealing with this bird?

I don't know about anyone else Spencer said. You don't want to keep making payments on something you're not using, he said. l'll be happy when it sells. I'll be a happy guy.

[AZRogue]

The article you quoted mentions Ebay several times. Why do you think it wasn't put on Ebay when your article says it was?

And I don't see this, really, as a big issue as she has tried to sell it. I'm not all that surprised that it hasn't sold yet.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you're saying. It's being sold by Turbo North Aviation and could have been sold on Ebay if they were willing to drop the price below its value. I agree with that. Though the article seems to say that it was up on Ebay before.

[Name Lips]

Is this an issue?

[FeatsofClay]

Is this an issue?

Well, in accepting her party's nomination her proof of being a reformer was that she sold the jet on Ebay. It was not true.

You have to decide if it is an issue.

Edit: Mind you, not a minor number swap or a matter of opinion, but a flat-out lie.

[Name Lips]

Oh. You're expecting honesty. That's the problem right there.

[FeatsofClay]

Is this an issue?

Oh. You're expecting honesty. That's the problem right there.

So, bold lies are not an issue? Claiming success where there was none in a directly quantifiable way?

Yes, I see it as an aissue.

[Ink Bleeder]

Wow. That's one of the most badly written articles I've ever seen.

[Name Lips]

So, bold lies are not an issue? Claiming success where there was none in a directly quantifiable way?

Yes, I see it as an aissue.
See, I already decided not to vote Republican becuase they're lying sacks of shit. This isn't an issue for me because it just highlights the obvious.



And yeah IB, that article needs a good editor. Ever consider doing freelance work for online publications like Salon? You'd get to read articles before they hit the general public. :)

[Janos]

So, bold lies are not an issue? Claiming success where there was none in a directly quantifiable way?

Yes, I see it as an aissue.

Where was success claimed? The article says one of her campaign promises was to sell the jet.

Key Points:
They haven't done it yet but they're trying (and have, 4 times). - Good

It's costing the state money while they do so. - Bad

Palin claimed they were using Ebay, they were using another service. - Neutral

Unless you're faulting her for not stating with absolute direct clarity the method of sale, I'm not sure why this is an issue as set out by the article you quoted.

[AZRogue]

Where was success claimed? The article says one of her campaign promises was to sell the jet.

Key Points:
They haven't done it yet but they're trying (and have, 4 times). - Good

It's costing the state money while they do so. - Bad

Palin claimed they were using Ebay, they were using another service. - Neutral

Unless you're faulting her for not stating with absolute direct clarity the method of sale, I'm not sure why this is an issue as set out by the article you quoted.

Actually, the article implies that the jet WAS on Ebay, but it didn't work out. So, they aren't using Ebay anymore, but did at first. Ebay, though, sounds better in a speech.

Other than it's costing the state money while they try to sell the jet, I don't see an issue here, or anything to get upset over. She DID try to sell it on Ebay, though now they're trying to use (wisely so) a firm that specializes in selling jets/planes.

If Palin had, instead, sold the jet for less than the market value, just to move it quickly, I'm fairly certain that THAT would have been brought up and spun to make her look like an idiot for selling a jet at a loss.

It's a non-issue, IMO, and unimportant and certainly not a lie.

[FeatsofClay]

Where was success claimed? The article says one of her campaign promises was to sell the jet.

Key Points:
They haven't done it yet but they're trying (and have, 4 times). - Good
Agreed!


It's costing the state money while they do so. - Bad

Agreed!


Palin claimed they were using Ebay, they were using another service. - Neutral

Palin claimed to have used Ebay and used it successfully, thereby showing up he populist image with a blatant lie. Bad!


Unless you're faulting her for not stating with absolute direct clarity the method of sale, I'm not sure why this is an issue as set out by the article you quoted.

It is an issue because with "absolute, direct clarity" she stated something was untrue, and she knew it to make herself seem more like folks at home.

This is EXACTLY like everyone making a hub-bub about Kerry not really hunting where and when he sai he did so he would look more populist.

[FeatsofClay]

.

It's a non-issue, IMO, and unimportant and certainly not a lie.

So, claiming to have sold it on Ebay when it wasn't sold on Ebay is not a lie? Especially when it appears to have not sold at all.

[AZRogue]

So, claiming to have sold it on Ebay when it wasn't sold on Ebay is not a lie? Especially when it appears to have not sold at all.

Her exact words from her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Doesn't look like a lie to me.

[FeatsofClay]

Her exact words from her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Doesn't look like a lie to me.

But the spech isn't the only place it has been mentioned. The campaign made a big deal of her selling it on Ebay.

Are you quoting the actaul speech or the text of the speech?

[AZRogue]

But the spech isn't the only place it has been mentioned. The campaign made a big deal of her selling it on Ebay.

Are you quoting the actaul speech or the text of the speech?

Yes, I'm quoting the actual text from the transcript: LINK. (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94258995)

Now, if the claim that it was sold was made elsewhere, than, yeah, that's not true. I was only going by the speech. She, herself, did not claim that it had been sold during her speech at the RNC.

[FeatsofClay]

Her exact words from her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."

Doesn't look like a lie to me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2008/09/05/2008-09-05_story_that_sarah_palin_sold_alaska_state.html

Story that Sarah Palin sold Alaska state jet on eBay is a campaign-trail tall tale
By CORKY SIEMASZKO
Daily News Staff Writer

Friday, September 5th 2008, 12:05 PM

The folksy tale of how Gov. Sarah Palin saved Alaska millions by unloading the state jet on eBay is fast becoming a campaign fish-that-got-away tale.

Sen. John McCain not only repeated that story on the stump Friday to tout his Republican running mate, but added, "She made a profit, too."

The truth is that Palin couldn't find a buyer last year when she tried to peddle to plane on eBay - and lost the state money when she did sell it.

Palin's predecessor, Frank Murkowski, originally bought the 20-year-old Westwing II for the state of Alaska for $2.7 million. She listed it on eBay for $2.5 million.

When no offers came in, Palin hired a jet broker - Turbo North Aviation in Anchorage - which sold the jet for $2.1 million to an Alaska businessman.

"We handled the sale for the state of Alaska," jet broker Rob Heckmann told the Daily News. "The eBay thing didn't work out for them."

Twenty months ago, when Palin was running for governor, she pounded Murkowski relentlessly about the jet and called it an extravagance, even though he shared it with the state's Public Safety Department.

Heckmann said Palin isn't the first politician who has tried to sell a state plane on eBay.



Good enough for a lie by current standards? The originally posted article made not have made it clear enough, but I thought anyone followingf the campaign could see it. If I offered a botched article it si my fault, but the lie is right there for anyone to see.

[AZRogue]

Like I said, if it was stated elsewhere, and I haven't seen it stated, than it's a lie, sure. She didn't make that claim during the convention that I saw, or that was reported on her transcript.

If McCain claimed she did, than maybe it's just because he can't remember what she said. Kind of like the houses thing.

[FeatsofClay]

Like I said, if it was stated elsewhere, and I haven't seen it stated, than it's a lie, sure. She didn't make that claim during the convention that I saw, or that was reported on her transcript.

If McCain claimed she did, than maybe it's just because he can't remember what she said. Kind of like the houses thing.

But saying she sold it, on ebay, at a profit...both are lies. We have affirmed that, yes?

[Janos]

But saying she sold it, on ebay, at a profit...both are lies. We have affirmed that, yes?

You haven't affirmed that she said it at all. That's what is baffling me. Neither of the articles you've posted state anything of the sort.

One says nothing at all, the other says McCain made that claim, not her. And according to AZR, nothing she said in her campaign speech addressed it either.

I don't disagree with your problem with politicians lying. But I you haven't really provided evidence that she's made the claim you're pointing at as a lie.

That's why I'm confused by your righteous anger, and I think AZR is in the same place.

[FeatsofClay]

You haven't affirmed that she said it at all. That's what is baffling me. Neither of the articles you've posted state anything of the sort.

One says nothing at all, the other says McCain made that claim, not her. And according to AZR, nothing she said in her campaign speech addressed it either.

I don't disagree with your problem with politicians lying. But I you haven't really provided evidence that she's made the claim you're pointing at as a lie.

That's why I'm confused by your righteous anger, and I think AZR is in the same place.


There has been no righteous anger. There has been giggling and laughing. If I said "she" where I meant "The campaign" I apologize. And still noone is willing to accept that the McCain campaign, McCain himself, lied about it.

Period.

[Sobek]

See, I already decided not to vote Republican becuase they're lying sacks of shit. This isn't an issue for me because it just highlights the obvious.
Hmm... That's one reason I'm not voting Democrat. Actually, I long ago realized that all politicians at that level are dirty. It's just a matter of how dirty and whether they're voting your way more often than the other guy(s).

The emphasis for most people is on the second part, unless the candidate is really squeaky. For a while, I thought Obama might be, but I am no longer of that opinion.

Her exact words from her speech: "That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."
I think that's a combination of exageration and rhetorical simplification. Having given plenty of public speeches/presentations, I can affirm that rhetorical simplification almost always leaves the listener with a more accurate picture of things than precise wording.

There's a limit, of course, but I think this particular quote is more than fair.

For those outside Palin's circle (and that includes McCain for a couple weeks, in this respect), this can be chalked up to a game of telephone. If Palin said she sold it, then it's dishonest. If McCain says it again then he either needs a better staffer (one who'll correct him) or he's being dishonest.

[AZRogue]

There has been no righteous anger. There has been giggling and laughing. If I said "she" where I meant "The campaign" I apologize. And still noone is willing to accept that the McCain campaign, McCain himself, lied about it.

Period.

Cool. It does seem, in the second article you posted, that McCain lied about her selling the jet. It just doesn't seem like anything more than a mistake since I haven't seen the claim made anywhere and she hasn't said it, from what I've seen. Giggle away, though.

Looking at it from the other side (not that I'm voting McCain, just flipping the situation) if it had been Obama saying he sold a plane that he had, instead, tried four times to sell and currently had up for sale with a company specialized in selling planes, I wouldn't have thought it a big deal. It's not like he was claiming to sell the plane and then had it parked outside his house.

Interesting article, though. I know that I'll be keeping a sharper eye out for any plane claims issued in the future.

[Janos]

There has been no righteous anger. There has been giggling and laughing. If I said "she" where I meant "The campaign" I apologize. And still noone is willing to accept that the McCain campaign, McCain himself, lied about it.

While he was blantantly wrong, I'm still not really seeing it as a lie. I don't think he's intentionally trying to decieve (which is what makes it a lie). Why lie about something so minor? It has too much potential to blow up on him (as it has). It makes a lot more sense that it was a rumor she sold it at a profit that he picked up on and repeated.