Wizards new income model...

[Bagpuss]

If DnD Insider really takes off I can see it being a nice steady earner for WotC and it will give them much better feedback on there players.

First of $9.95 a month from every player. Nice steady income not dependent on if people like MM IV or not.

You buy a book more traditional income. Then a nominal fee to add the expanded content of books to your account. From the video's you enter a code from the book* and then pay a nominal fee and you can uses all the feats and stuff in the character builder, or I imagine monsters in the online play experience, etc.

You have a character vault and can do online tabletop play. WotC are going to get direct feedback on what books have their online content activated, which feats get used most, what races are most popular, what spells are used most, etc. etc.


*I seriously hope this code is the same in every copy of the book, and not like serial numbers for computer games. Imagine if for your players to use something in a campaign book you bought they had to each buy a copy of the campaign book as well. :eek: I can see that killing DnDInsider as it is a $10 I think it's priced well for what you get. It depends what those nominal fees are like.

[Harry]

Now see, this here is the single biggest reason I will not play 4.0. Not sure what segment of the gaming populace finds this attractive, but I don't.

Here's a cross posting from something I said a little while ago elsewhere:

A lot of the changes made to Star Wars Saga pleased me, and it's nice that these changes were a preview of 4th Edition. But, the crux of my problem with the new edition is not having to buy new books or rebooting a game. No, my problem lies, like TylerDurden, with the Digital Initiative. It burns me up to no end that WotC assumes that I'd be willing to pay for online support. For almost 30 years, I've bought the core books and played. If I wanted extras, I bought Dragon if and when I felt like it. Fans in these later years brought out things like HeroForge, which improved my 3.5 games immensely. Wizards gave some online support for free, and I got damned used to that as well.

I no longer play 3.5. Stopped a good ways back. I won't buy 4.0, simply because of the DI and the fact that my group is completely satisfied with Castles and Crusades.

My biggest concern is, what will this mean to my favorite 3rd party publishers, like Necromancer and Goodman Games?

As for OGL, one of my best friends is a free-lance writer, currently being published by Silven. He has already been told that $.0 WILL be some version of OGL, and that they'll be wanting him to convert his books when the new edition comes. I'm going to lean on him to try and convert to C&C instead.

[Limper]

Monthly subsciption fee for books I already purchased.
Collectable Minis deeply incorporated in the game
Online play and a month subscription for that
Everything always changing so if you aren't online your out of the loop
Get to republish EVERYTHING ever yet again

I think they have wrapped every revenue stream possible into one package now... except CCG's and I bet they can swing that as well.

Great Business model on their part... brilliant even, cudos to them and I wish them all the luck cause I won't be participating.

[Droid101]

Monthly subsciption fee for books I already purchased.
Collectable Minis deeply incorporated in the game
Online play and a month subscription for that
Everything always changing so if you aren't online your out of the loop
Get to republish EVERYTHING ever yet again

I think they have wrapped every revenue stream possible into one package now... except CCG's and I bet they can swing that as well.

Great Business model on their part... brilliant even, cudos to them and I wish them all the luck cause I won't be participating.

You see those points as brilliant? I see them driving a lot of people away, personally.

[Limper]

You see those points as brilliant? I see them driving a lot of people away, personally.

I see you as having grown up a bit and moved beyond gamer dork... and thus like myself you aren't the one its getting marketed to.

I thought the same at 3.5 and was wrong and I think we'll both be wrong on this one.

Hasboro might be worth buying into on this... *adds HAS to watchlist*

[Droid101]

I see you as having grown up a bit and moved beyond gamer dork... and thus like myself you aren't the one its getting marketed to.

I thought the same at 3.5 and was wrong and I think we'll both be wrong on this one.

Hasboro might be worth buying into on this... *adds HAS to watchlist*

While I admit I haven't read anything about it other than what has been posted here on KT, it still sounds a bit silly to me.

People are used to paying their monthly fee for something like World of Warcraft... they get social interaction, video gaming, progression, player vs player venting, etc.

Wizards is offering a fee for content that used to be free? I'm just skeptical, I guess.

[Limper]

While I admit I haven't read anything about it other than what has been posted here on KT, it still sounds a bit silly to me.

People are used to paying their monthly fee for something like World of Warcraft... they get social interaction, video gaming, progression, player vs player venting, etc.

Wizards is offering a fee for content that used to be free? I'm just skeptical, I guess.

Did you watch this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M

[Enk]

...Great Business model on their part... brilliant even, cudos to them and I wish them all the luck cause I won't be participating.

I've got to agree with this. The model looks like its going to do a great job of dragging people kicking and screaming into TRPG micro-payment land.

[Kastil]

Well considering I haven't played tabletop D&D in quite some time, I won't be buying into any of this. I've spent far too much on books as it is and don't see myself buying into this.

As far as maps and stuff, I use my webspace and give them to the players as needed. Even when I did play tabletop D&D, we never used minis.

I mean, kudos for them for realizing the online community. I just don't see any more money being leeched from my bank account. I've got a kid five years away from college to worry with now.

[Droid101]

Did you watch this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M

No, I'll have to wait until I get home.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

Could definitely be a short term moneymaker for them, but at the cost of reducing the public profile of the game. Don't be surprised as more and more items (adventures, sourcebooks, etc) are released electronically only, passing the printing costs onto the consumer. As Limper said, great if they can pull it off. Not sure how much I'd participate. As I've already said, 3.x is heavily purchased by me and unlike AD&D is and will be supported by 3rd party companies carving out a niche. For now I'll be sticking to 3E. If they start printing miniatures with 4E stats I might just stop buying them, too, as I have a gigantic tackle box full of them - more than enough for any DM.

[Bagpuss]

Limper I think you are exaggerating a tad.

Wizards isn't charging for content that use to be free, the subscription covers...


Dragon and Dungeon (updated 3 times a week) - This never use to be free.
An online character generator that keeps update with official published releases - This never use to exist, and the character generators that did have official content charged a fee, for every update.
Online character vault and adventure vault - Not sure what they are but they didn't exist before so obviously weren't free.
Online tabletop play - Okay so they do exist for free, but many of the better ones charged a fee, and none of them kept pace with official releases.
Online mapping tools
other shit...


Also I believe some of the content of DnDInsider is likely to remain free, probably errata and messageboards and the like.

By the looks of things if you don't want to go the subscription model then you can activate individual books based on a code in them and a nominal fee (the fee being waved if you are a subscriber). So you can still get the PDF and some other bells and whistles for say a dollar or two on top of the cover price. Previously you had to pay nearly the same again to get a PDF legally.

[Limper]

Limper I think you are exaggerating a tad.

Wizards isn't charging for content that use to be free, the subscription covers...


Dragon and Dungeon (updated 3 times a week) - This never use to be free.
An online character generator that keeps update with official published releases - This never use to exist, and the character generators that did have official content charged a fee, for every update.
Online character vault and adventure vault - Not sure what they are but they didn't exist before so obviously weren't free.
Online tabletop play - Okay so they do exist for free, but many of the better ones charged a fee, and none of them kept pace with official releases.
Online mapping tools
other shit...


Also I believe some of the content of DnDInsider is likely to remain free, probably errata and messageboards and the like.

By the looks of things if you don't want to go the subscription model then you can activate individual books based on a code in them and a nominal fee (the fee being waved if you are a subscriber). So you can still get the PDF and some other bells and whistles for say a dollar or two on top of the cover price. Previously you had to pay nearly the same again to get a PDF legally.

Bagpuss I think you are mistaking me for someone else in the thread.

[The Theocrat of Poon-Tang]

By the looks of things if you don't want to go the subscription model then you can activate individual books based on a code in them and a nominal fee (the fee being waved if you are a subscriber). So you can still get the PDF and some other bells and whistles for say a dollar or two on top of the cover price. Previously you had to pay nearly the same again to get a PDF legally.

I do agree with them doing that, however. Let's be real - how many people really did pay for both? You know as well as I that if people bought the paper version, most of them had no problem grabbing a PDF of that book from a P2P site. Many people are probbably willing to shell out a buck.

[Droid101]

Bagpuss I think you are mistaking me for someone else in the thread.

Man, you couldn't fall on the grenade for me just this once? After everything I've done for you?

[Limper]

Man, you couldn't fall on the grenade for me just this once? After everything I've done for you?

Everything youv'e done for me? Dude you assfucked my cat, shit on my carpet and Riverdanced in a sundress in front of my house... what part of that would make me want to take a bullet for you?

[Bagpuss]

Bagpuss I think you are mistaking me for someone else in the thread.

"Monthly subsciption fee for books I already purchased."

That was you wasn't it?

[Droid101]

Everything youv'e done for me? Dude you assfucked my cat, shit on my carpet and Riverdanced in a sundress in front of my house... what part of that would make me want to take a bullet for you?

Speaking of which, can I adopt your cat?

[Tetsubo]

Monthly subsciption fee for books I already purchased.
Collectable Minis deeply incorporated in the game
Online play and a month subscription for that
Everything always changing so if you aren't online your out of the loop
Get to republish EVERYTHING ever yet again

I think they have wrapped every revenue stream possible into one package now... except CCG's and I bet they can swing that as well.

Great Business model on their part... brilliant even, cudos to them and I wish them all the luck cause I won't be participating.

You nailed it. I have lots of 3.5 books that still "work" just fine thank you...

Heck, I just recently got rid of the bulk of my 2E stuff... :)

[Limper]

"Monthly subsciption fee for books I already purchased."

That was you wasn't it?

The special content and online updates for the new 4.0 books is what I was refering to.

You took it to a whole new level... you're excited about this aren't you?

[Limper]

Speaking of which, can I adopt your cat?

Hell I think she'll acquiece to a marriage proposal.

[cnath.rm]

My biggest concern is, what will this mean to my favorite 3rd party publishers, like Necromancer and Goodman Games?This is going to be a major question for me as well. If WotC is willing to have 3rd party stuff added into the online database, if I as the DM can access not only my MM stuff but also monsters from whenever Necro/Paizo put out a new 4th ed Tome of Horrors... (with WotC splitting my $5 or whatever it is with NG/Paizo) I might go for that.

If I can't have my NG and other non-WotC materiels... I'm going to be less happy.

edit: (of course, from what i'm seeing, I could just use another "miniature" and say "you know the goblin over there, it's not really goblin, but they don't have mini's for X" just like I would do at the table when I don't own 3 Iron Golem minis :) )

[Bagpuss]

You took it to a whole new level... you're excited about this aren't you?

I have wood.

[Sobek]

Whether or not I play 4E will be based on the quality of the core books and basic rules. If I do play 4E, I will almost certainly be using DDI.

It's not like they're going to be releasing huge amounts of sourcebooks through DDI. It's generally going to be along the line of what Dragon or Dungeon used to provide. Those PDFs? If I understand correctly, they're going to automatically include errata and be cross-searchable (meaning you can search all your books from one prompt -- sweet). That's not too shabby.

Really, I'd be incredibly surprised if someone who isn't using DDI missed out on any more content than someone who didn't subscribe to Dragon or Dungeon during 3E. Yeah, yeah, you could buy a single issue of a magazine, but how often did you actually do that? It also wouldn't surprise me if you could buy a single month of either Dragon or Dungeon under DDI -- they are still compiling every month's articles and giving them an issue number.

The big thing that turns me off is that the chargen is online only. I'm opposed to online-only apps in principle, though. I like to own my own data. If it's really slick, though, I'll use it.

[Droid101]

Did you watch this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWZ2WdeTo1M

Fuck.

Well, I give. This is the best thing I've ever seen.

I'm buying every 4th Edition book.

[doc]

Everything youv'e done for me? Dude you assfucked my cat, shit on my carpet and Riverdanced in a sundress in front of my house... what part of that would make me want to take a bullet for you? Sounds like a typical day at Limperland...

I have wood. Don't ask if the cat has a sister !

The presenation looks good, I'll still reserve the right to be underwhelmed

Have they released anything on Psionics yet

[Dacke]

Have they released anything on Psionics yet
The only thing that comes close is someone talking about playing 4e with his psion character, and then saying something like "Psst... don't tell anyone, but he's just a wizard with the serial numbers filed off." I wouldn't put too much stock in that.

I just hope they release psionics rules before they release Eberron, because psionics are kinda important in that setting.