[English] English request

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, my fellow English-Speakers, got a request for you.

Type something. Anything. From as short as a sentence to as long as a long paragraph.

Type it using Continuous and Progressive Tenses.
Then type it without Continuous or Progressive Tenses (Gerunds and Infinitives still allowed.)

Thus:

They are calling me Edena_of_Neith, I am posting on Kay Tastrophe, and I am thinking that Kay Tastrophe is being a good place to be posting.

They call me Edena_of_Neith, I post to Kay Tastrophe, and I think Kay Tastrophe is a good place to post.

Do that. See what you come up with.
If at all possible, try to make the second version mean something as close to the original as possible (note that my second version does not mean what the first version does.)

[Varaj]

Ok, my fellow English-Speakers, got a request for you.

Type something. Anything. From as short as a sentence to as long as a long paragraph.

Type it using Continuous and Progressive Tenses.
Then type it without Continuous or Progressive Tenses (Gerunds and Infinitives still allowed.)

Thus:

They are calling me Edena_of_Neith, I am posting on Kay Tastrophe, and I am thinking that Kay Tastrophe is being a good place to be posting.

They call me Edena_of_Neith, I post to Kay Tastrophe, and I think Kay Tastrophe is a good place to post.

Do that. See what you come up with. :)

Dude I would totally like have to look up what all them fancy words mean to do that.

[Edena_of_Neith]

lol :D

[Enk]

Ok, my fellow English-Speakers, got a request for you.

Type something. Anything. From as short as a sentence to as long as a long paragraph.

Type it using Continuous and Progressive Tenses.
Then type it without Continuous or Progressive Tenses (Gerunds and Infinitives still allowed.)

Thus:

They are calling me Edena_of_Neith, I am posting on Kay Tastrophe, and I am thinking that Kay Tastrophe is being a good place to be posting.

They call me Edena_of_Neith, I post to Kay Tastrophe, and I think Kay Tastrophe is a good place to post.

Do that. See what you come up with.
If at all possible, try to make the second version mean something as close to the original as possible (note that my second version does not mean what the first version does.)

I am reading this, and giving Edena an Indian accent. When I am doing this, I am finding it funny.

I read this, and gave Edena an Indian accent. When I did, I found it funny.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Heh. Ok.
Anyone else?

[Cat of Ulthar]

Ok, I am being a foreigner, but I am being willing to be giving this a trying!:D

Ok, I am a foreigner, but I am willing to give this a try.

[Edena_of_Neith]

(Grammar)

It is interesting (to me, at least) how the grammar works on this.

In English Continuous and Progressive Tenses, we add an extra verb into the phrase. That extra verb is a conjugation of To Be.

- Simple Present: I am going, you are going, he is going, we are going, you are going, they are going
- English Imperfect/Simple Past: I was going, you were going, he was going, we were going, you were going, they were going
- Simple Future: I will be going, you will be going, he will be going, we will be going, you will be going, they will be going

Now, for the Complex Tenses, we thus have three verbs in the phrase.

Present Perfect: I have been going, you have been going, he has been going, we have been going, you have been going, they have been going
PluPerfect: I had been going, you had been going, he had been going, we had been going, you had been going, they had been going
Future Perfect: I will have been going, you will have been going, he will have been going, we will have been going, you will have been going, they will have been going

For the conditional, two verbs

I would be going, you would be going, he would be going, we would be going, you would be going, they would be going

For the conditional past, three verbs

I would have been going, you would have been going, he would have been going, we would have been going, you would have been going, they would have been going

For the imperative, there is no English Continuous

For the subjunctive ...

Present Subjunctive: If I were going, if you were going, if he were going, if we were going, if you were going, if they were going
Past Subjunctive; If I were to be going, if you were to be going, if he were to be going, if we were to be going, if you were to be going, if they were to be going (interesting, this one - the entire 'to be' has to be used.)
PluPerfect Subjunctive: If I had been able to be going, if you had been able to be going, if he had been able to be going, if we had been able to be going, if you had been able to be going, if they had been able to be going (heh ... there, you have to use the full 'to be' and an extra word - 'able')

-

To my fellow English Speakers who are interested in grammar, what do you think?
Note how often we use the Continuous. Note how we unthinkingly add the extra conjugation (of 'to be') in there.

Now imagine that there *is no* Continuous/Progressive. Instead, use the standard conjugations of verbs. What happens then?

I am going to the store.

Ok, how does this translate into a non-Continuous/Progressive Tense?

You will probably say 'I go to the store' right?

But is it as easy as that?

I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, soon'
I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, tomorrow'
I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, next week'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am currently going/driving to the store'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am at the store and heading inside.'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am ready to go to the store.'
I am going to the store could mean 'I shall go to the store (whether you like it or not) '
I am going to the store could mean 'I intend to go to the store (I hope I am able to go) '
I am going to the store could mean 'I go to the store all the time, as you requested that I do'

The Continuous/Progressive is rather vague. A lot is implied, but specifics are not given.

Edena_of_Neith

[Edena_of_Neith]

(French)

Now, I am told that in French, there is no Continuous/Progressive per se, but that the Continuous/Progressive is *implied* in the Simple Tenses.

French Present: I go (implied 'I am going' when they want it to imply that)
French Simple Past: I went (implied 'I was going' when they want it to imply that)
French Simple Future: I will go (implied 'I will be going' when they want it to imply that)

Or:

Je vais (Present)
J'allais (Imperfect, no English equivalent)
J'allai (Simple Past)
J'irai (Simple Future)

Although some of the other rules are different, a similar situation exists in Spanish and German. They imply the Continuous with their Simple Tenses.

However, this is not true of the Complex Tenses. No Continuous exists in French, and they use different sentence structure and terminology to make their point.
In French, the Present Perfect (Complex Tense known as Passé Composé to them) is used instead of the Simple Past to express completeness (it is done, it is over, it is finished.) in Spoken French. So this Complex Tense is much used when the French are speaking, but no Continuous exists for it, and this changes considerably how they might say things.

That is, in French, they would never say: I have been going to the store.
But they very often say: I have been ... (J'ai été ...)

I would invite Winslow and the others to express how they say the equivalent of 'I have been going to the store.' (I am not the expert on French, and merely note the difference.)

[Edena_of_Neith]

Now, there's another curiosity of English that you should see.

Say something.
Then make it a question.
Then make it an emphatic statement.

As follows:

The machine works.
Does the machine work?
The machine does work!

I think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard.
Do I think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard?
I do think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard!

Some women can have many orgasms in succession?
Do some women have many orgasms in succession?
Some women do have many orgasms in succession!

Like that. :)

[Edena_of_Neith]

Did you know that no other language - apparently, any other language in the world, period - does this?
That is, no other language employs 'to do' as English does.

If you did a literal translation of French (which isn't really correct, but here it is anyways), they say:

The machine works. (La machine marche.)
Is it that the machine works? (Est-ce que la machine marche?)
The machine, it works! (La machine, elle marche!)

I think that Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard. (Je pense que Kay Tastrophe est un bien forum.)
Is it that I think Kay Tastrophe, it is a great messageboard? (Est-ce que je pense Kay Tastrophe, c'est un bien forum?)
I think that Kay, it's a great messageboard! (Je pense que Kay Tastrophe, c'est un bien forum!)

Some women can have many orgasms in succession.
Is it that some women, they can have many orgasms in succession?
(not sure on this one)

The French never use do or does in their sentences, nor does anyone else, in the way we English Speakers do. (Note the number of dos and does in this sentence of mine ...)
We 'Do-Speakers' and 'Does-Speakers' are unique in the world, in this regard!

The next time you say 'I do like that!', 'I don't like that!', 'What do you like about that?' or 'What don't you like about that?' think about it. :)

[Cat of Ulthar]

Now imagine that there *is no* Continuous/Progressive. Instead, use the standard conjugations of verbs. What happens then?

I am going to the store.

Ok, how does this translate into a non-Continuous/Progressive Tense?

You will probably say 'I go to the store' right?

But is it as easy as that?

I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, soon'
I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, tomorrow'
I am going to the store *could* mean 'I will go to the store, next week'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am currently going/driving to the store'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am at the store and heading inside.'
I am going to the store could mean 'I am ready to go to the store.'
I am going to the store could mean 'I shall go to the store (whether you like it or not) '
I am going to the store could mean 'I intend to go to the store (I hope I am able to go) '
I am going to the store could mean 'I go to the store all the time, as you requested that I do'

The Continuous/Progressive is rather vague. A lot is implied, but specifics are not given.

Edena_of_Neith

See, and that is what I have to explain to my students. As well as that next curiosum of English you mention:

Now, there's another curiosity of English that you should see.

Say something.
Then make it a question.
Then make it an emphatic statement.

As follows:

The machine works.
Does the machine work?
The machine does work!

I think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard.
Do I think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard?
I do think Kay Tastrophe is a great messageboard!

Some women can have many orgasms in succession?
Do some women have many orgasms in succession?
Some women do have many orgasms in succession!

Like that. :)

It is really difficult to Dutch speakers; we have no continuous tense, and use the simple present throughout. Also, we use subject-verb switch as well as inflection to indicate a question, and a negator for negatives. It is really difficult for Dutch students to get that "do", and even more difficult to get a feeling for when they have to use Continuous...

[Edena_of_Neith]

In my efforts to learn French, I have discovered that it is rather difficult - for me, at least - to let go of the 'do' and the 'does'.
It is such a fundamental part of English. For example, you mention the Negatives. We base our Negatives heavily on the 'do' and the 'does.'

I do not want to go / I don't want to go.
You do not want to go? / You don't want to go?
I will do that.
Why won't you do that?
How do you do?
I am doing fine.
That will not do!
Do. Or do not. There is no try (lol)

If French did the same thing, it would be - I think - something like:

Je fais ne vais aller
Est-ce que tu fait ne aller?
Je serrai fais ce.
Pourquoi serrais-tu ne fais ce?
Comment fais tu aller?
Je me fais aller.
Ce ne serra pas faire!
Faire. Ou ne faire pas. Il y a ne essayer.

Of course, the above is nonsense. The French do not use 'do' or 'does.' Just wanted to give a hypothetical.

Likewise, I suppose a 'Continuous French' might be:

je suis alleri (I am going)
tu es alleri
il est alleri
nous somme alleri
vous êtes alleri
ils sont alleri
(perhaps, add an i at the ending of the infinitive, to show the continuous?)

Don't kill me yet, Winslow. I know it doesn't work that way! :)

[The Winslow]

alleri ?

Je suis allé(e), tu es allé(e), il/elle est allé(e), nouse sommes allé(e)s, vous êtes allé(e)s, ils/elles sont allé(e).

[Edena_of_Neith]

I was just creating a hypothetical, make-believe French Continuous Present Tense. Thus:

Je suis alleri (I am going)
Tu es alleri (You are going)
Il est alleri (He is going)
Nous sommes alleri (We are going)
Vous êtes alleri (You are going)
Ils sont alleri (They are going)

I put in the i (which would be pronounced E (rhymes with see, me, we in English) as a way of 'denoting' the Continuous/Progressive (as opposed to the Infinitive - Aller)

But it's just a joke. French has no Continuous/Progressive (except it's implied in the Simple Tenses) and doesn't need any.

Unless, perhaps, I am inventing EdenaFrench? :D

[The Winslow]

Oh well then, carry on. But beware, do not end up confusing your Edenafrench and Edenanglish with the actual languages down the line! :D

[Cat of Ulthar]

I was just creating a hypothetical, make-believe French Continuous Present Tense. Thus:

Je suis alleri (I am going)
Tu es alleri (You are going)
Il est alleri (He is going)
Nous sommes alleri (We are going)
Vous êtes alleri (You are going)
Ils sont alleri (They are going)

I put in the i (which would be pronounced E (rhymes with see, me, we in English) as a way of 'denoting' the Continuous/Progressive (as opposed to the Infinitive - Aller)

But it's just a joke. French has no Continuous/Progressive (except it's implied in the Simple Tenses) and doesn't need any.

Unless, perhaps, I am inventing EdenaFrench? :D

I beg to differ; French, like English and Dutch, has a present participle, it is only used less. In English Present participle = going, in French it would be something like "allant".

So your example would be more appropriate saying: Je suis allante, tu es allant, etc.

[Edena_of_Neith]

I beg to differ; French, like English and Dutch, has a present participle, it is only used less. In English Present participle = going, in French it would be something like "allant".

So your example would be more appropriate saying: Je suis allante, tu es allant, etc.

I was only joking, though. You have just created a credible French Continuous/Progressive.

(présent) Je suis allant, tu es allant, il est allant, nous sommes allant, vous êtes allant, ils sont allant

(best guesses)

(imparfait) Je suis allantais, tu es allantais, il est allantait, nous sommes allantons, vous êtes allantez, ils sont allantaient
(passé historie) Not applicable
(passé composé) J'ai été allant, tu as été allant, il a été allant, nous avons été allant, vous avez été allant, ils ont été allant
(plus-que-parfait) J'avais été allant, tu avais été allant, il avait été allant, nous avions été allant, vous aviez été allant, ils avaient été allant
(futur simple) Je dois (shall) étre allant, tu doit étre allant, il doit étre allant, nous devrons étre allant, vous devrez étre allant, ils doivent étre allant
(futur parfait) Je dois été allant, tu doit été allant, il doit été allant, nous devrons été allant, vous devrez été allant, ils doivent été allant
(conditionnel) Je dois étre allant, tu doit étre allant, il doit étre allant, nous devrons étre allant, vous devrez étre allant, ils doivent étre allant
(conditionnel passé) J'aurais été allant, tu aurais été allant, il aurait été allant, nous aurions été allant, vous auriez été allant, ils auraient été allant
(subjonctiv présent) Que je sois allant, que tu soit allant, que il soit allant, que nous soyons allant, que vous soyez allant, que ils soient allant
(imperatif) Commences étre allant, commencons étre allant, commencez étre allant

I think those would work ... (and now, Winslow IS going to kill me :D )

[Cat of Ulthar]

I was only joking, though. You have just created a credible French Continuous/Progressive.

No, all I said is in theory it could exist, it is only not used. But gramatically, it *can* be used. In which case, it would inflect according to gender and number, so your examples of
(présent) Je suis allant, tu es allant, il est allant, nous sommes allant, vous êtes allant, ils sont allant
would have to be "nous sommes allants" etc.

(imparfait) Je suis allantais, tu es allantais, il est allantait, nous sommes allantons, vous êtes allantez, ils sont allantaient
No, the change in tense only applies to the auxiliary verb, so it would be: J'étais allante, tu étais allant, etc. Like in English I *was* going, not I am wenting.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Speaking as an American, I would comment that English is not only a language, it's an attitude.

There are two fundamental rules of American English:

There is no wrong way of speaking English (and we Americans speak English in every way possible, breaking every rule in the book ... if you can even be vaguely understood by someone else, that's sufficiently good English.)

There is no right way of speaking English. (Americans are notoriously bad about judging you, your intelligence, your upbringing, everything, based on how you speak. And if you speak in a different way than them, you are from 'there' and one of 'them', as opposed to being from 'here' and/or one of 'us.' Such as, he is a 'New Yorker' or she is 'a Georgian')

Obviously, this is a regrettable thing. But it is, the way it is. I am judged by how I speak and write (and have been judged even on this messageboard thus.) It is a part of a very hard and unforgiving American culture.
I myself *refuse* to judge others based on how they speak. I *refuse*. But I am an exception to the rule.

I do not know how the Frence treat their own language, in their own country. All I know is that they have a different culture than ours, and different expectations.

Could the French ever adopt an actual Continuous/Progressive?
I could see that happening if it became a fad among the young, as 'like' became a fad here (the girl says: 'Like, that is so cool!')
If the fad caught on, the Continous/Progressive fad, it might become a part of the language. But obviously, that is extremely unlikely to happen.

So my 'French Continuous/Progressive' is meant as humor only.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Just for laughs, Cat of Unther, how would the 'French Continous/Progressive' go through all the major tenses?

Can you write them out?

?

We already have:

Présent: Je suis allant(e), tu es allant(e), il est allant, elle est allante, nous sommes allants(es), vous êtes allants(es), ils sont allants, elles sont allantes
Imparfait: J'étais allant(e), tu étais allant(e), il était allant, elle était allante, nous étions allants(es), vous étiez allants(es), ils étaient allants, elles étaient allantes

(yes, the above need further fixing)

Can we do the other tenses?

[Edena_of_Neith]

The problems of English (the fact there is no wrong way or right way to speak it) was highlighted in a famous film called My Fair Lady.
In this film, Professor Higgens sings (or, half sings/half talks) :

Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
This verbal class distinction, by now should be antique.
If you, sir, spoke as she does instead of the way you do;
Then you might be selling flowers too. (I beg your pardon, sir!)

An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him;
The moment he talks he makes another Englishman despise him.
One common language I'm afraid we'll never get;
Oh, way can't the English, learn to ...

Set a good example, for people whose English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears;
There are even places, where English completely disappears!
Why, in America they haven't used it for years.

Of course, Professor Higgens got it all wrong also. He never understood that Eliza successfully learned his version of English and etiquette because she had fallen in love with him, and he did not realize that he had, in turn, fallen in love with her. (Until the (happy) ending of the film, at least.)

[Edena_of_Neith]

Hey there, Winslow. I see that you are online. So, I'll ask you.
Can you complete these 'French Continuous/Progressive' Tenses?

- Présent: Je suis allant(e), tu es allant(e), il est allant, elle est allante, nous sommes allants(es), vous êtes allants(es), ils sont allants, elles sont allantes
- Imparfait: J'étais allant(e), tu étais allant(e), il était allant, elle était allante, nous étions allants(es), vous étiez allants(es), ils étaient allants, elles étaient allantes

Passé Historie:
Passé Composé:
Plus-que-Parfait:
Futur Simple:
Futur Parfait:
Conditionnel:
Conditionnel Passé:
Modal Temps:
Subjonctif Temps (all) :
Imperatif:
Proach Temps:

I realize, appreciate, that these are not used in France. I'm just curious - since Cat_of_Ulthar has shown that they *can* be properly grammatically constructed - as to how they would look.

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ah, nevermind. You don't use conjugations in that way, so I'll go back over to my other thread about Hoffmann.