Spanking linked to sexual kinks

[Varaj]

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080228/spanking-raises-chances-of-risky-deviant-sexual-behavior.htm
Spanking Raises Chances of Risky, Deviant Sexual Behavior
Review found physical punishment of kids linked to unprotected, masochistic sex as adults
By Amanda Gardner
Posted 2/28/08

THURSDAY, Feb. 28 (HealthDay News) -- Researchers have uncovered another damaging consequence of spanking: risky sexual behaviors, or even sexual deviancy, when the child grows up.

"This adds one more harmful side effect to spanking," said Murray Straus, a spanking expert who was expected to present the findings of four studies at the American Psychological Association's Summit on Violence and Abuse in Relationships in Bethesda, Md., on Thursday.

"I think that it's pretty powerful," said Elizabeth Gershoff, an assistant professor at the University of Michigan's School of Social Work. "It's across several studies and across different forms of either risky or deviant sexual behavior."

Straus, who was the author of all four studies, hopes the findings will raise awareness among child development experts.

"My hope is to convince my colleagues that they ought to put this in their textbooks," said Straus, co-director of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire, in Durham. "It's amazing. Something experienced by all American kids gets an average of half a page in child development textbooks, and not a single one comes to the conclusion that parents should never spank."

Even the revered Dr. Spock, who was anti-spanking, never came right out and advised parents outright not to do it, he added. Instead, Spock advised "avoiding it if you can."

A meta-analysis of spanking studies conducted by Gershoff found 93 percent agreement among studies that spanking can lead to such problems as delinquent and anti-social behavior in childhood along with aggression, criminal and anti-social behavior and spousal or child abuse as an adult.

"There's probably nothing else in child development that has 93 percent agreement in results," Straus said.

Five percent of people who have never been spanked hit their partners, versus 25 percent of those who were spanked frequently.

However, some 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, according to Straus.

The review being presented at the meeting are the first to look at the relationship of spanking to sexual behavior.

They found that spanking and other corporal punishment is associated with an increased probability of verbally and physically coercing a dating partner to have sex; risky sex such as premarital sex without using a condom; and masochistic sex such as spanking during sex.

There is a "dose response" at work here. "The more parents spank, the higher the probability of harmful side effects," Straus noted.

Of course, there's a similar dose response for smokers. But if someone reaches the age of 65 without developing lung cancer, it doesn't mean that smoking isn't harmful. It means the person was one of the lucky ones.

It's the same with spanking, Straus said. "If a person says, 'I was spanked, and I don't have any interest in bondage and discipline sex, that's correct, but it's not because spanking is OK, it's because they're one of the lucky ones."

And spanking a child once may be like picking up that first cigarette. "The trouble is, if you have a 2-year-old, you pretty soon decide you can't avoid it. The recidivism rate for whatever 'crime' you correct a 2-year-old for is about 50 percent in two hours."

"I've been researching corporal punishment for 30 years and, in the course of that time, the evidence has accumulated that it doesn't work any better than non-corporal punishment but has harmful side effects. I have come to the conclusion that parents should never, ever spank because, although it does work, it's no better than non-hitting methods that don't have harmful side effects. If there was an FDA for spanking, they'd say use an alternative that doesn't have harmful side effects."

More information

Now I know why you are all dirty monkeys.

[Varaj]

On a side note it is a pretty biased article but amusing.

[Lady Fury]

Well that explains a lot. My parents use to line us all up and spank us in order of our births. By the time they'd get to my sister, she'd already be crying out of fear and usually didn't get spanked because she was already crying. I tried that trick a few times but I still got spanked. Damn it sucks being the middle child.:mad:

[Space Cadet B^3]

I'll spank if they want it, but it doesn't do anything for me except cause pain.

[Name Lips]

So... are they saying we should spank, or that we shouldn't? :D

[Ancalagon]

If 90 of parents spank, how the heck can you make any sort of useful conclusions?!?! Spanking seems to be the norm. How can you make any conclusion that kids who weren't spanked are better adjusted because they weren't spanked and not because their parents were different than the average parent?

Ancalagon

[Bregh]

.

[Name Lips]

Indeed.

And what, exactly, is deviant sexual behaviour, as they're defining it?

Fifty years ago, psychologists were classifying homosexuality as a deviant mental disorder.

And if 90% of kids are spanked, is it really deviant sexual behavior?

[doc]

When I spanked Rach she enjoyed it, but she's 34

[Dr_Avalanche]

What was that thing about correlation and causation...

In other words, there may be a connection between spankings as a kid and sexual deviations as an adult, but there could be a number of reasons for that. The conclusion that spankings lead to sexual deviations seem severely premature.

[Varaj]

What was that thing about correlation and causation...

In other words, there may be a connection between spankings as a kid and sexual deviations as an adult, but there could be a number of reasons for that. The conclusion that spankings lead to sexual deviations seem severely premature.

The article is a bunch of biased crap, but amusing biased crap.

[Space Cadet B^3]

The article is a bunch of biased crap, but amusing biased crap.
They should be spanked.

[bunny]

What was that thing about correlation and causation...

In other words, there may be a connection between spankings as a kid and sexual deviations as an adult, but there could be a number of reasons for that. The conclusion that spankings lead to sexual deviations seem severely premature.

Hmm, an interesting point. It might be helpful to concider how fetishes develop. I know that one prominent way is association. I was listening to a podcast where a woman called in and said she'd developed a word fetish because when she was younger she had insomnia and read the dictionary to occupy herself during the night. While lying awake reading the dictionary she would get bored and start pleasuring herself. Now words make her frisky and she keeps 20 dictionaries by her bed. (I can't think of a cuter fetish).


That sort of association is often what leads to kink, but other associations, such as internalizing our fears can lead to kinks as well. For example, this explains why people who were once desperately afraid of being cheated on develop cuckold fetishes, or why some gay men fetishize police officers or fireman (ultra men who have traditionally tended to be homophobic and abusive toward gays). To a certain extent, rape fantasy in women could be seen this way as well. It could be possible that children internalize their fear of being abused and sexualize it and turn it into a pleasurable thing in order to no longer be afraid of it.

/I'm typing this without having actually read the article.... I should probably go read it.

[Space Cadet B^3]

hmmm... I read the dictionary on the john growing up, what's that say about me?

[Name Lips]

You think words are shitty?

Imagine if you had drawn pictures on the john. You'd probably be a writer right now, instead of a graphic artist.

[Scutisorex Shrewlord]

What a load of crap.

[Kyllikki]

Or those of us who were spanked are secure enough as adults that we can explore our kinks?

[Freedom Canadian]

The link between spanking and delinquent behavior could easily be explained as people with innate delinquent tendencies having more spankable behavior as children.

A similar (but probably not identical :D) explanation could be drawn for the fetish thing.

[Space Cadet B^3]

spankable behaviorI don't know why, I just had to quote these words. :)

[Cat of Ulthar]

I generally don't buy all those explanations on how kinks develop. I was never spanked and now I love to be spanked. Where did that come from? Might as well say I never got spanked so now I need it to compensate... makes as much sense.

I think kinks, like homosexuality, are in most cases just innate, and only in some cases develop as a result of external circumstances.

[Trainz]

I generally don't buy all those explanations on how kinks develop. I was never spanked and now I love to be spanked.

Indeed. And I OTOH got spanked and don't have sexual "weird" things.

And who the fuck would spend time on such research? My friend is dying of cancer goddammit...

[Cat of Ulthar]

I am sorry to hear that Trainz. :(

[Trainz]

I am sorry to hear that Trainz. :(

Yeah well... thanks. He's very dear to me and he's been fighting for 6 months.

But I just wanted to say that stupid "research" takes ressources away for genuine vital research. Didn't want to burst the party with a sympathy whore post.

[Eliezer]

Yeah well... thanks. He's very dear to me and he's been fighting for 6 months.

But I just wanted to say that stupid "research" takes ressources away for genuine vital research. Didn't want to burst the party with a sympathy whore post.

Yeah, stupid research taking dollars away from life saving research has always pissed me off.

Like the disparity between breast cancer dollars research versus prostate cancer research. More dollars on breast cancer but more die of prostate cancer. (But I can see getting behind saving boobs. A noteworthy cause for the betterment of all.)

Another disparity is between AIDS research and Cancer research. In terms of deaths cancer kills SIGNIFICANTLY more than AIDS, but the dollars spent on research aren't in line with the death tolls.

[Atropine Mama]

Yeah well... thanks. He's very dear to me and he's been fighting for 6 months.

But I just wanted to say that stupid "research" takes ressources away for genuine vital research. Didn't want to burst the party with a sympathy whore post.

It's not a sympathy whore post, it makes an excellent point, one I wholeheartedly agree with.

And you and he both have my sympathies anyway.

disparity

WORD. That which is the more fashionable charity gets the big dollars. But what about cancer, diabetes, heart disease, mental illness? People just want to forget about them.

[Varaj]

It is also a false dichotomy. Just because dollars are spent on project X does not mean that project Y received less dollars.

And you do have my sympathy and hopes.

[Atropine Mama]

It is also a false dichotomy. Just because dollars are spent on project X does not mean that project Y received less dollars.

I don't think that's what Trainz's point is. I think he's saying that the dollars wasted on stupid studies like "Men and women don't understand each other" and "children like ice cream", frivolous shit like that, should be directed elsewhere -- to more pressing research.

[Space Cadet B^3]

If I could get a grant for the ice cream one, I'd hire y'all as data collecters.

[Varaj]

I don't think that's what Trainz's point is. I think he's saying that the dollars wasted on stupid studies like "Men and women don't understand each other" and "children like ice cream", frivolous shit like that, should be directed elsewhere -- to more pressing research.

Still a false dichotomy. :) That money isn't going to be directed elsewhere and most stupid research isn't really stupid research. Men and women don't understand each other is good basic research on human communication which is critical to understand and better advance. When totaling raw cost of lives and misery we would probably find studies that impact improving human communication have the potential to do more than pure medical studies.

[Atropine Mama]

Still a false dichotomy. :) That money isn't going to be directed elsewhere and most stupid research isn't really stupid research. Men and women don't understand each other is good basic research on human communication which is critical to understand and better advance. When totally raw cost of lives and misery studies that impact improving human communication have the potential to do more.

OK, so what about the ice cream one? :D

(hush, that was rhetorical)

[Varaj]

OK, so what about the ice cream one? :D

(hush, that was rhetorical)

But I can't resist. :)

Obesity is rapidly becoming the number one killer in many developed nations. A better of understanding of how human taste and preferences work allows for better nutrition that fulfills the cravings for sweets thus saving lives.

[Name Lips]

One of my favorite "bad communication" lines from the Simpsons:

Marge: "Homer, you're only hearing what you want to hear!"

Homer: "Thanks Marge, I'd love an omelet right about now!"

[Atropine Mama]

But I can't resist. :)

Obesity is rapidly becoming the number one killer in many developed nations. A better of understanding of how human taste and preferences work allows for better nutrition that fulfills the cravings for sweets thus saving lives.

I can kill you with my brain. :grey:

[Space Cadet B^3]

I can kill you with my brain. :grey:
What does that taste like? ;)

[Atropine Mama]

What does that taste like? ;)

Tastes like... VICTORY!!!

:yummy:

[Varaj]

I can kill you with my brain. :grey:

:ahhh:

[The Winslow]

I can kill you with my brain. :grey:

Can you do backflips like Summer Glow? ;)

[Space Cadet B^3]

Glau? ;)

[The Winslow]

Yeah, Glau. Glow would be a cooler name, though.

[Kyllikki]

And who the fuck would spend time on such research? My friend is dying of cancer goddammit...
We're doing the best we can,but these things take time and even if your friend's specific cancer is treatable, that doesn't mean your friend has the specific mutations to respond to the known treatments. But trust me when i say: we are working our asses off to get the medicines out there.
Yeah, stupid research taking dollars away from life saving research has always pissed me off.

Like the disparity between breast cancer dollars research versus prostate cancer research. More dollars on breast cancer but more die of prostate cancer. (But I can see getting behind saving boobs. A noteworthy cause for the betterment of all.)

Another disparity is between AIDS research and Cancer research. In terms of deaths cancer kills SIGNIFICANTLY more than AIDS, but the dollars spent on research aren't in line with the death tolls.
See below for my experiences related to how research dollars are allocated, but as far as the disparity between number of researchers on any given disease, it is more than just financial. Take breast cancer for example: there are dozens of mutations that cause breast cancer, in any number of different types of cells and different parts of each individual cell. So someone who has mutation set 1 (a name i made up, since the actual names are confusing and don't convey a lot of info to non-researchers) and responds well to Taxol would not respond well to Herceptin, since it is for mutation set 2. (This is a totally hypothetical example, btw. Similar issues exist for prostate, lung, liver, glioblastoma, leukemia, lymphoma, you name it. Most cancers are very complex genetically and can differ from each other vastly, even if they all have the name general name.)

Also, keep in mind, not all diseases are being worked on because our understanding of that disease's pathology, causes, mechanism, biochemistry, genetics, etc, is not understood well enough that research would even be fruitful. Mimicking a specific disease in a rat or mouse isn't trivial, and if no animal model exists, we really can't begin to make drugs for it. Even ones that have drugs on the market, can't have a lot of new, more efficacious drugs come out due to higher safety standards. In the past you could just give rats or monkeys compounds and hope for the best. Those days are long gone and have added huge costs to new drugs, as well as in general made drugs safer. (not in the mood for a COX-1/COX-2 debate please :))
Still a false dichotomy. :) That money isn't going to be directed elsewhere and most stupid research isn't really stupid research. Men and women don't understand each other is good basic research on human communication which is critical to understand and better advance. When totaling raw cost of lives and misery we would probably find studies that impact improving human communication have the potential to do more than pure medical studies.

The bolded part is key, although the entire paragraph contains truth. The funding for various research topics is pre-set by the institution giving out the grants. Research dollars for cancer are going to be higher than research dollars for human behaviours, due to the perceived need for each sort of research, and of course the amount of donations the public sends to individual disease areas. Of all the races you've run/biked or candy bars or calendars you've bought, think back: Most were for a specific cancer or disease (multiple myeloma, diabetes, leukemia) and those dollars add up fast.

Anyway, the questions you all raise are excellent ones and i hope i informed without preaching.

[Trainz]

We're doing the best we can,but these things take time and even if your friend's specific cancer is treatable, that doesn't mean your friend has the specific mutations to respond to the known treatments. But trust me when i say: we are working our asses off to get the medicines out there.

I'm sure you are, and thank you for that.

But you couldn't use more manpower? More money? That was my point. Fix cancer, and then we can start worrying about wether or not spanking is linked to sexual kinks, Mister Heretic notwithstanding.

[Pigs in Space]

I was going to agree with Thomas - understanding how the brain works is very important. So what if this particular peice of research is a commentary on the development of sexual behavior... it's another peice in the puzzle, say to understanding serious brain issues.

I'm sure there have been many similarly small steps in stepping toward a cancer cure.

Besides, what if a particular investor or scientist isn't interested in researching what another person considers valuable? We're capitalists... they should spend their money how they want.

Hell, in this case it could even (drawing a long bow) contribute to cancer research in some way. Maybe the brain/emotions/development regulate... some stuff... which directly influences susceptibility to cancer.

[Varaj]

I'm sure you are, and thank you for that.

But you couldn't use more manpower? More money? That was my point. Fix cancer, and then we can start worrying about wether or not spanking is linked to sexual kinks, Mister Heretic notwithstanding.

There is an upper limit to how much manpower and money you can throw at one problem but I doubt most research topics have hit that limit.

The research wasn't specific on kinks it was the damage that spanking can cause related to violent crime rates, domestic violence, fetish development etc.
But even straight kink research is useful. Suicide is the ninth leading cause of death in the US. People with sexual paraphilias are 40 times more likely to commit suicide than people without them.
The idea that research is wasted because it doesn't help one specific persons suffering is selfish and offensive in the extreme. It is very much like saying, "only my suffering matters everybody else's suffering does not matter."

Anger filled response:
It must be nice to be able to tell the mother that has lost her child to paraphilia related suicide that her child wasn't worth spending money on because he didn't die of cancer. To have such confidence that you can say that nobody should seek to relieve the suffering they have the skills to relieve until your personal suffering is relieved. That is some impressive fanatical conviction.

[Trainz]

The idea that research is wasted because it doesn't help one specific persons suffering is selfish and offensive in the extreme. It is very much like saying, "only my suffering matters everybody else's suffering does not matter."

I see what you did there. :D

But I (many of us) have seen that video on the research about the consistency of ketchup, or the money spent on cosmetics research (the animals not-withstanding)... these have to be put aside until the more important issues (mental health, cancer, diabetes...) have been dealt with.

And, no, I don't think my cancerous friend is a unique special snowflake that should get everybody's attention until he's cured.

I brought this bench to help you get down from this horse, here, grab my hand... :tongue:

[Varaj]

I see what you did there. :D

But I (many of us) have seen that video on the research about the consistency of ketchup, or the money spent on cosmetics research (the animals not-withstanding)... these have to be put aside until the more important issues (mental health, cancer, diabetes...) have been dealt with.

And, no, I don't think my cancerous friend is a unique special snowflake that should get everybody's attention until he's cured.

I brought this bench to help you get down from this horse, here, grab my hand... :tongue:

Nope sorry but consistency of ketchup and cosmetics are done by corporate research on their own products it isn't the same type of research as medical research. You aren't even comparing apples to oranges at that point you are comparing apples to rocks.
You sell musical instruments correct? Are you honestly suggesting that Gibson can't research new guitar designs or new speaker technology and instead they should send all their profit to medical research?

[Trainz]

Nope sorry but consistency of ketchup and cosmetics are done by corporate research on their own products it isn't the same type of research as medical research. You aren't even comparing apples to oranges at that point you are comparing apples to rocks.
You sell musical instruments correct? Are you honestly suggesting that Gibson can't research new guitar designs or new speaker technology and instead they should send all their profit to medical research?

Yeah, I didn't think much, did I?

I'm pretty stoopid.

:grey:

[Edena_of_Neith]

Trainz, I am REALLY sorry about your friend.

(All I can do, is hope for a miracle ... that he survives. And I will hope for that.)

[Trainz]

Trainz, I am REALLY sorry about your friend.

(All I can do, is hope for a miracle ... that he survives. And I will hope for that.)

Thanks Edena, you have a heart of gold.

*sigh*... I REALLY didn't want all this sympathy. I just wanted to drive a point across (which Mr. Heretic artfully and skillfully blasted to tiny little bits).

I'm not much for good wishes and sympathy (in real life as much as on message boards), to give them or receive them. I'm more of a live and let be guy.

[Kyllikki]

But you couldn't use more manpower? More money? That was my point. Fix cancer, and then we can start worrying about wether or not spanking is linked to sexual kinks, Mister Heretic notwithstanding.
Answered above but another spin, which is a reiteration of what i said above:

Money and manpower might never conquer some diseases, or some genetic subsets of some diseases. Not every enzyme is inhibit-able, not every type of cell can be penetrated, not every gene mutation or deletion can be overcome. Look at the flu vaccine and how it has to change every year, and even some years (like this one) only has less than 50 % effectiveness. Viruses mutate, genes mutate. This will continue to happen forever. If humans last another 1000 years i can see most diseases being effectively cured, but not in another 100.
*sigh*... I REALLY didn't want all this sympathy. I just wanted to drive a point across (which Mr. Heretic artfully and skillfully blasted to tiny little bits).
You made a frustrated remark which was based in your actual feelings. I personally was just trying to point out that we're doing all we can. There was no attempt on my part to make you feel like you needed to feel bad for your statement, only that if you feel a bit overwhelmed and alone, like no one cares and all this money is being "wasted", that is just not the case. Yes, i can see how you feel that way, but i'm trying to put forth information to indicate that you don't have all the facts. But money spent on non-lethal conditions fits into the grand scheme of understanding the human body, so don't see it as "stealing" research dollars from more "important" diseases. If i made you feel bad, i apologise.

Anyone else made you feel bad, throw acid on them. I do that at work all the time and damn if i don't feel better :D

[Trainz]

Anyone else made you feel bad, throw acid on them. I do that at work all the time and damn if i don't feel better :D

If it can help you find a cure for cancer, splash away!