Father Murders Daughter for not wearing the Hijab... In Canada!

[Ancalagon]

I don't agree very often with the national post, but well, on this case I certainly do.

http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=162281

The deadly face of Muslim extremism

Tarek Fatah and Farzana Hassan, National Post Published: Wednesday, December 12, 2007

The tragic death of a Mississauga, Ont., teenage girl -- allegedly at the hands of her own traditionally minded Muslim father -- has sent shock waves across the world. Canadians are justified in raising concerns as to whether this is a sign of the rise of Islamic fundamentalism in their own backyard.

Aqsa Parvez, a sprightly 16-year-old, beloved of her friends and peers at Applewood Heights Secondary School, was only trying to be herself, was only wishing for a normal adolescence amid Canada's rich cultural mosaic. Her father has now been charged with murder, and his son with obstruction, while a young life has been snuffed out -- likely in the name of honour and Islam.

Radical Muslim men consider themselves ultimately responsible for the conduct of the womenfolk. This outlook is rooted in a medieval ethos that treats women as nonpersons, unable to decide for themselves what they should wear, where they must go and what they must accomplish in life. If their conduct is seen as contravening this austere religious outlook, they are invariably subjected to abuse.

The hijab in particular has become a thorny issue among Muslim families. It has been elevated as a sort of "sixth pillar of Islam" among militant sects. Young teenage girls are often lectured over the virtues of the hijab by their family members. Once they hit puberty, compliance is deemed a non-negotiable religious requirement.

Yet none of this is actually mandated by the Koran. The Koran, while speaking generally of modesty in dress and demeanour, falls short of specifying the details of that modesty. Scripture also makes allowances for non-compliance of religious edicts if the environment is not conducive to their observance.

The Koran exhorts compassion upon parents, caretakers and guardians of young girls. Yet some families instead exhibit a strict conformity to doctrine and dogma, which in turn leads to violence, bigotry and intolerance of alternative understandings of faith.

There is much discussion in Canadian society about the religious freedoms of those who choose to wear the hijab. We hear relatively little about the oppression of young girls who make the opposite choice. Seldom is their oppression from within their own community, or even their own family, cast as a human rights issue.

If convicted, Aqsa's father and brother must be handed the strictest penalty available under the law. As for the imams and clergy of Canada's mosques, who constantly berate young women for not wearing the hijab or snub them for "violating Islam," they need to reflect on the consequences of their sermons.

Consider, as an example, the Montreal mosque that recently posted on its Web site a warning to the effect that if young girls took off their hijab, they could end up getting raped and having "illegitimate children." Other proffered risks included "Stresses, insecurity and suspicion in the minds of husbands" and "instigating young people to deviate towards the path of lust."

As if the threat of rape and the fear of illegitimate children were not enough, these pre-teen girls were told that if they took off their hijab, they would cease to be Muslims: "By removing your hijab, you have destroyed your faith. Islam means submission to Allah in all our actions." Little wonder then, that Canadian girls walk away from sports tournaments rather than remove their hijabs.

Muslims need to stand up to this sort of emotional and religious blackmail by imams who spread the competing agendas of Saudi Arabia and Iran into Canada. Young Aqsa Pervez's death cannot be reversed. But in her memory, we can at least challenge those whose message leads to rage and madness.

-- Tarek Fatah is author of Chasing a Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State, to be published by Wiley & Sons in March, 2008. Farzana Hassan is author of Islam, Women, and the Challenges of Today. Both are members of the Muslim Canadian Congress(mcc@muslimcongress.ca)

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

Enjoy. :)

[Trainz]

Consider, as an example, the Montreal mosque that recently posted on its Web site a warning to the effect that if young girls took off their hijab, they could end up getting raped and having "illegitimate children."

This is where me, Freedom Canadian and Yig live for chrissakes, and I wasn't aware of it.

Where exactly is that mosque and does anyone have a few gallons of gasoline to spare?

Fuck...

[Trainz]

Enjoy. :)

Indeed...

I'm sure Darkfire will arrive very soon to show us how misguided we are on our opinions on Islam. It's must just be cultural.

[Dacke]

Indeed...

I'm sure Darkfire will arrive very soon to show us how misguided we are on our opinions on Islam. It's must just be cultural.
As the article points out, the Koran only says that you're supposed to dress "modestly". The hijab and most of the misogynistic culture comes from Arab tribal culture, which unfortunately is pretty closely tied in with Islam.

[Freedom Canadian]

Indeed...

I'm sure Darkfire will arrive very soon to show us how misguided we are on our opinions on Islam. It's must just be cultural.

You know, muslim groups were quick to point out that what this man did is an abomination.

I'm curious as to how a head scarf can stop a rapist, though. Maybe they have super ninja training to use it as a deadly weapon or something.

[Ancalagon]

You know, muslim groups were quick to point out that what this man did is an abomination.


... we have no idea if this is what actually happened, but I'm hearing rumors that she did more than not wear the hijab, she decided to give up Islam entirely.

... would they call it an abomination then? Isn't that punishable by death?

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

The hijab and most of the misogynistic culture comes from Arab tribal culture, which unfortunately is pretty closely tied in with Islam.

Canada gave its seal of approval to "Arab tribal culture" when it approved of the use of Sharia law...oh look, Sharia law in action!

[Ancalagon]

Canada gave its seal of approval to "Arab tribal culture" when it approved of the use of Sharia law...oh look, Sharia law in action!

Get your facts straight - it was discussed, it never was approved.

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

Get your facts straight - it was discussed, it never was approved.

Oh, maybe I was confusing the undying support for it here and elsewhere. ;)

[Lady Fury]

The article did say Radical extremist. Most Muslims do not condone this kind of behavior. I work with 2 from Egypt and I was talking to one of them about their beliefs and the Koran and she said that women are highly respected by men because they birth men. You shouldn't shout at your woman and if a woman is unhappy with the marriage she can leave. She also told me she didn't wear the Hihab until she was ready to commit to the religion. She said that they are told not to wear it unless they totally believe in what the meaning of wearing it is.

I no longer assume that Muslims are all bad. They have some bad people just like any other culture or religion. What this man did was wrong. It was his choice not the the Muslim religion's choice. From what I understand, the Koran does not say anything about murdering your children if they don't believe.

It's a shame that this young girl had to die, especially at the hands of her father who was someone she was suppose to trust her life with. :(

[Trainz]

You know, muslim groups were quick to point out that what this man did is an abomination.


Of course.

Come back to me with the transcript of next week's sermon at the mosque. Then we'll compare notes.

[Eliezer]

The article did say Radical extremist. Most Muslims do not condone this kind of behavior. I work with 2 from Egypt and I was talking to one of them about their beliefs and the Koran and she said that women are highly respected by men because they birth men. You shouldn't shout at your woman and if a woman is unhappy with the marriage she can leave. She also told me she didn't wear the Hihab until she was ready to commit to the religion. She said that they are told not to wear it unless they totally believe in what the meaning of wearing it is.

I no longer assume that Muslims are all bad. They have some bad people just like any other culture or religion. What this man did was wrong. It was his choice not the the Muslim religion's choice. From what I understand, the Koran does not say anything about murdering your children if they don't believe.

It's a shame that this young girl had to die, especially at the hands of her father who was someone she was suppose to trust her life with. :(

I don't believe most Muslims are bad either.

Ask your Egyptian friend what should happen if a non-Muslim in your country writes publicly criticizing Islam, the Prophet. Then the follow up question is what should happen if a Muslim does those things or commits apostasy.

I hate to stereotype anyone, but understanding the culture is important and people are products of their culture despite their individual deviations in certain areas.

[Lady Fury]

She did say that in her country there are about 85% Muslims and the other 15% is Christians. She said that they really can't speak out publicly because of the radicals and because of culture, not because of the teachings of the Koran.

[Eliezer]

She did say that in her country there are about 85% Muslims and the other 15% is Christians. She said that they really can't speak out publicly because of the radicals and because of culture, not because of the teachings of the Koran.

Well, I was about to say in previous post, "The problem is the culture", but I figured that would be taken wrong by too many people.

For a person who grew up in the culture to say it is okay, though :)

[Lady Fury]

She's a very modern woman considering her upbringing. She's in America, having her second child here, studying for her phD in microbiological pathology. I'm very proud of her because it isn't easy being in a country that harbors a lot of hate for people that are of her culture. Her husband had a harder time dealing with the shock of being in America but he's coming around now as well. I think if we can all just accept people on a one to one basis the world would be a better place. I try not to judge a culture or society on a whole anymore. The media really has a lot to do with the hatred being spread around. It's rare that they ever write about any of the good things that people do for others.

[Eliezer]

I used to love and respect Arabic culture. Some elements of it are still really marvelous. I don't think there is a culture without some good elements.

However, living among Arabs, working with them, studying their culture and understanding them led me to despise the culture.

I judge the culture and find it lacking... I did not come to this conclusion lightly or easily. I still like to judge individuals as individuals, but that should not prevent me from calling something evil that I find to be repugnantly so.

[Edena_of_Neith]

The bill to Canadian taxpayers for the girl's hospitalization: huge
The bill to Canadian taxpayers for the police investigation: considerable
The bill to Canadian taxpayers for the court trial: considerable
The bill to Canadian taxpayers for the incarceration: huge
The bill to Canadian taxpayers if this becomes common in Canada: priceless

Don't go there, Canada.

[Varaj]

She's a very modern woman considering her upbringing. She's in America, having her second child here, studying for her phD in microbiological pathology. I'm very proud of her because it isn't easy being in a country that harbors a lot of hate for people that are of her culture. Her husband had a harder time dealing with the shock of being in America but he's coming around now as well. I think if we can all just accept people on a one to one basis the world would be a better place. I try not to judge a culture or society on a whole anymore. The media really has a lot to do with the hatred being spread around. It's rare that they ever write about any of the good things that people do for others.

Judge the culture as the whole but still judge people as individuals. :D

[Stratego]

Oh, maybe I was confusing the undying support for it here and elsewhere. ;)

You mean here at Kaytastrophe? Undying support?

[Varaj]

You mean here at Kaytastrophe? Undying support?

He means me. I'm the 5.5 pillar of Islam.

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

He means me. I'm the 5.5 pillar of Islam.

I've heard that your pillar is undying. ;)

[Varaj]

I've heard that your pillar is undying. ;)

My pillar is Christ. Dies and doesn't raise for three days. :(

:tongue:

[Vermicious Knid]

Arabic tribal culture = teh suck.


Too bad some other aggressive culture didn't exterminate them before they spread. Goddamn lazy Persians. :mad:

[Varaj]

Arabic tribal culture = teh suck.


Too bad some other aggressive culture didn't exterminate them before they spread. Goddamn lazy Persians. :mad:


Uhmm Persians are one of the sucking tribal cultures.

[Vermicious Knid]

Uhmm Persians are one of the sucking tribal cultures.

True, I suppose. Hard to say how badly they've been corrupted by lengthy contact with Arabic Islamist nonsense...but I'll find a better scapegoat.


Goddamn lazy Romans! :mad:

[Eliezer]

Uhmm Persians are one of the sucking tribal cultures.

French Canadian fur trapping cultures are biggest causes of terrorism globally. :tongue:

[Northcott]

... we have no idea if this is what actually happened, but I'm hearing rumors that she did more than not wear the hijab, she decided to give up Islam entirely.

... would they call it an abomination then? Isn't that punishable by death?

Some pictures of the girl were flashed on the news last night. If her father was upset by her not wearing the hijab, he must have been absolutely insane over her tight, low-cut pants, her tight shirts, the make-up, the styled hair, and the really flirty attitude she was portraying in the pictures that were shown.

Before somebody starts wanking off to their PC white knight fantasies: No, I don't in any way, shape, or form condone what her nutjob father did.

The girl wasn't rebelling by simply rejecting the hijab, or (perhaps) even Islam -- she seemed (if the images from the media are to be trusted at all) to be trying to craft herself into the very antithesis for the prescribed modesty that is encouraged for women.


One of her other brothers was also in that news clip. When asked by reporters how he feels (while trying to avoid the cameras, the poor bastard), he responded: "I feel bad for my sister. She is dead, while my father is alive." I don't even want to try and imagine what kind of Hell this sort of tragedy is upon the rest of the family.

[Varaj]

If she had been left alive her soul would have been damaged and she would have ended up in hell. Now her soul is protected. :rolleyes:

[Eliezer]

If she had been left alive her soul would have been damaged and she would have ended up in hell. Now her soul is protected. :rolleyes:

Thus sayeth Grand Inquisitor Varaj!!!!

All Hail Varaj

[Northcott]

If she had been left alive her soul would have been damaged and she would have ended up in hell. Now her soul is protected. :rolleyes:


Nah. Fucker gacked her before she could repent. He didn't just kill his daughter, he damned her to Hell. What a lovely father figure.

Even by his own cultural lights, he's a monstrosity.

[Varaj]

Nah. Fucker gacked her before she could repent. He didn't just kill his daughter, he damned her to Hell. What a lovely father figure.

Even by his own cultural lights, he's a monstrosity.

I know, it wasn't to protect her, honor killings are to protect the family, but depending on the culture it isn't monstrous and would be allowed by law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Honor_killing_in_national_legal_code s

[Northcott]

I know, it wasn't to protect her, honor killings are to protect the family, but depending on the culture it isn't monstrous and would be allowed by law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing#Honor_killing_in_national_legal_code s

Good catch. I should have said by his own religion's lights, not culture's. I may be wrong in this, but I don't think the Koran advocates killing one's daughter over fashion choice.

I keep meaning to read that book cover to cover. Never have.

[Darkfire]

Good catch. I should have said by his own religion's lights, not culture's. I may be wrong in this, but I don't think the Koran advocates killing one's daughter over fashion choice.

Yep, that little tradition is strictly of killing over 'dishonour' is strictly arabic


I keep meaning to read that book cover to cover. Never have.

I'd recommend it (of course), just make sure you get a proper transliteration as some (like the Penguin Classic version) are a pile of garbage.

[Varaj]

Yep, that little tradition is strictly of killing over 'dishonour' is strictly arabic

More than arabic, occurs in India and Latin America. It is something that can't really be blamed on Islam at all, even if they are the usual targets of hate over it.

[Ancalagon]

Some people are saying that this has less to do with Islam and more to do with teen rebellion and nutjob father. Nutjob fathers of all faiths have done horrible things to their daughters to be fair...

Ancalagon

[Hastur T. Fannon]

I'd recommend it (of course), just make sure you get a proper transliteration as some (like the Penguin Classic version) are a pile of garbage.

Really? That'll probably be why I find it turgid (I can never get past the first sura - heck last time I tried I couldn't get past the third paragraph). Can you recommend an alternative?

[Darkfire]

If you prefer a more classical translation then the Muhammad Pickthall one is good. This one is also one of the more established and accepted english versions

Personally I prefer a more modern take on language (no thee's and thou's) and would recommend the M.A.S Abdel Haleem translation.

Both have a brief, but helpful commentary embedded in them.

[Eliezer]

Yep, that little tradition is strictly of killing over 'dishonour' is strictly arabic


Not strictly Arabic. Pashtun societies have very similar practices.

[Ancalagon]

Not strictly Arabic. Pashtun societies have very similar practices.

And "strangely enough", Pashtun culture gave birth to another extremist mixt of tribalism and Islam, called the Talibans.

[Edena_of_Neith]

The father's bad behavior is a given.

What I was saying is that, if this kind of thing becomes common in Canada, it will bankrupt the Canadian Socialized Healthcare system.
That system is based upon lawful behavior out of people. It cannot withstand people putting other people in the hospital and racking up enormous medical bills, over ... well, over just about anything, as it were (don't wear that scarf, I'll choke you to death ... that counts as being willing to kill, over almost anything ...)

[Freedom Canadian]

French Canadian fur trapping cultures are biggest causes of terrorism globally. :tongue:

Here, we have a saying "Either you are with us, or you are with the... well... us." :D

[Tetsubo]

You know, muslim groups were quick to point out that what this man did is an abomination.

I'm curious as to how a head scarf can stop a rapist, though. Maybe they have super ninja training to use it as a deadly weapon or something.

Well you know, ninjas do wear head coverings... hmmmmmmmmmmm... I think you are on to something...

But seriously, even if Islam didn't exist this sort of thing would likely still happen. It's about a patriarchy controlling the lives of their female members... To a lesser extent those that oppose birth control and reproductive rights in general are doing the same thing...

[Freedom Canadian]

What I was saying is that, if this kind of thing becomes common in Canada, it will bankrupt the Canadian Socialized Healthcare system.

What, murder ? Nah, it would lessen the strain on the health care system, actually. :)

That system is based upon lawful behavior out of people. It cannot withstand people putting other people in the hospital and racking up enormous medical bills, over ... well, over just about anything, as it were (don't wear that scarf, I'll choke you to death ... that counts as being willing to kill, over almost anything ...)

The system already withstands people racking up enormous medical bills over all kinds of stupid shit already.

I mean, this is so far from a health care or socialist issue. WTF :confused: