"God guided me" TO KILL!!!!!

[FeatsofClay]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html

Security Guard: 'God Guided Me And Protected Me'
Jeanne Assam Stopped Gunman At New Life Church

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- Jeanne Assam appeared before the news media for the first time Monday and said she "did not think for a minute to run away" when a gunman entered the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and started shooting.

There was applause as Assam spoke to reporters and TV cameras saying, "God guided me and protected me."

New Life's Senior Pastor Brady Boyd called Assam "a real hero" because Murray "had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of damage."

When asked by a reporter if she felt like a hero, Assam said, "I wasn't just going to wait for him to do further damage."

"I give credit to God," she said.

Assam described how the gunman, Matthew Murray, entered the east entrance of the church firing his rifle.

"There was chaos," Assam said, as parishioners ran away, "I will never forget the gunshots. They were so loud."

"I saw him coming through the doors" and took cover, Assam said. "I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down."

"God was with me," Assam said. "I didn't think for a minute to run away."

Assam said she believes God gave her the strength to confront Murray, keeping her calm and focused even though he appeared to be twice her size and was more heavily armed.

Murray was carrying two handguns, an assault rifle and over 1,000 rounds of ammunition, said Sgt. Jeff Johnson of the Colorado Springs Police Department.

"It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God," she said.

Assam worked as a police officer in downtown Minneapolis during the 1990s and is licensed to carry a weapon. She attends one of the morning services and then volunteers as a guard during another service.

Boyd said Assam was the one who suggested the church beef up its security Sunday following the Arvada shooting, which it did. The pastor credited the security plan and the extra security for preventing further bloodshed.

Boyd said there are 15 to 20 security people at the church. All are volunteers but the only ones armed are those who are licensed to carry weapons.

The security guards are members of the church who are screened and not "mercenaries that we hire to walk around our campus to provide security," Boyd said.

About 7,000 people were on the church campus at the time of the shooting, said Boyd.

Two of the parishioners killed in the shooting were identified Monday as sisters Stephanie Works, 18, and Rachael Works, 16. Their father, David Works, 51, suffered two gunshot wounds -- one to the abdomen and one to the groin -- and was listed in fair condition on Monday. They were shot in the parking lot as they were getting into their van.

"Our concern is for our family that lost two teenage daughters. Our hearts are grieving," said Boyd. "You can imagine, as parents, losing two children while coming to church, just showing up for a worship service, not bothering anyone."

Boyd said Assam's actions saved the lives of 50 to 100 people.

Assam said she was ending three days of fasting on Sunday when fate put her in the path of the gunman.

"I was praying to God that he direct me" in what to do in life, Assam said. "God made me strong."


Amazing, to me at least. I could have sworn her faith gave specific instructions NOT to kill and to turn the other cheek and all.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

Big thread on the Ship (http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=010769) about this with some more details. Lots of views for and against.

The thing that bothers me is that she had made the decision to carry a weapon during a protracted fast. I'm sure the Desert Fathers would have had something to say about that...

Mainstream Christianity regards pacificism as being a honourable path for those who are called to it, but that isn't everyone. Jesus did instruct his followers to arm themselves if the situation demanded it

[Varaj]

Their is a rich tradition in Christianity of kicking some ass. I support her move to kick some ass for God. :D

[Hastur T. Fannon]

Their is a rich tradition in Christianity of kicking some ass. I support her move to kick some ass for God. :D

People ask me where I get my ideas (ok, they don't but they really ought to). In the case of one of the NPCs from the upcoming Year of the Zombie: Havens (yes I know it's a year late, don't blame me, blame the publisher. Sometimes I think I'm the only one in this organisation who knows how to bloody spell[1]), I imagined what the "I kick serious butt for the Lord" priest from Brain Dead would do if he had access to a National Guard armory and a hot teenage girl

[1] Bonus points are available for anyone who knows the origin of this quote

[Goblin Girl]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14817480/detail.html (http://www.kaytastrophe.com/vb/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedenverchann el.com%2Fnews%2F14817480%2Fdetail.html)



Amazing, to me at least. I could have sworn her faith gave specific instructions NOT to kill and to turn the other cheek and all.

The commandment is actually, Thou shalt not murder.

That being said, I wouldn't really want to go to a church that needs armed security guards.

[Varaj]

[1] Bonus points are available for anyone who knows the origin of this quote

Dead Alive?

[Hastur T. Fannon]

That being said, I wouldn't really want to go to a church that needs armed security guards.

It was a temporary thing, in response to a specific threat

Varaj: Nope. Think popular music

[Pigs in Space]

It was a temporary thing, in response to a specific threat

They knew this guy was on his way? wtf?

God could have guided those other dead people into not being dead too, by ensuring that every single living being carries at least two firearms continually.

Then you wouldn't have these problems.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

They knew this guy was on his way? wtf?

IIRC (I haven't been following this story in detail), he hit another church earlier in the day

[Dacke]

They knew this guy was on his way? wtf?
From the original post: "Boyd said Assam was the one who suggested the church beef up its security Sunday following the Arvada shooting, which it did."

[Hatter]

The absolution of personal responsibility is troubling.

[Hastur T. Fannon]

The absolution of personal responsibility is troubling.

Coping mechanism on her part? Plus there will have been selective quoting of her words by "the media". But yes, I agree.

Tangent: isn't it great that no-ones making any comments about her being a woman?

[Hatter]

Coping mechanism on her part? Plus there will have been selective quoting of her words by "the media". But yes, I agree.

Tangent: isn't it great that no-ones making any comments about her being a woman?

Perhaps, but I think the "God/Devil/Jesus/Society/Mindcontrol Rays made me do it" response is a dangerous thought pattern. It's easy to ascribe actions that shake your moral viewpoint to an inscrutable outside force. I think the world would be better if people were more willing to deal with their own actions.

That said, I can only imagine what she is going through. Though I'd like to think that in the same position I'd be able to do the same thing, I know I would personally find it a difficult thing to cope with.

[FeatsofClay]

News reports this morning say she shot hm several times but that he shot himself in the head and that the shot that killed him was his.

Not that really changes much for her.

[Megamieuwsel]

News reports this morning say she shot hm several times but that he shot himself in the head and that the shot that killed him was his.

Not that really changes much for her.

Looks like God's a lousy aim then, eh?

[Hatter]

Looks like God's a lousy aim then, eh?

I'm so confused now. Did God shoot him in the head or the Devil?

[Ancalagon]

Looks like God's a lousy aim then, eh?

Actually, you could interpret this as a "blessing" - she successfully defended the church from a very dangerous man, yet does not have to deal with the fact that she killed him.

Jesus did instruct his followers to arm themselves if the situation demanded it

Indeed. I'm having a hard time faulting her actions here.

[Northcott]

Perhaps, but I think the "God/Devil/Jesus/Society/Mindcontrol Rays made me do it" response is a dangerous thought pattern. It's easy to ascribe actions that shake your moral viewpoint to an inscrutable outside force. I think the world would be better if people were more willing to deal with their own actions.

That said, I can only imagine what she is going through. Though I'd like to think that in the same position I'd be able to do the same thing, I know I would personally find it a difficult thing to cope with.

While I agree with all you've said above, Hatter, I think there's a line (though a fine one) between saying "God was with me and gave me the strength to persevere" rather than "God made me do it". I was left with the impression of a woman who euphoric at the notion not that she had killed, but that she had survived, and that the people whom she undoubtedly knew (as a regular in that congregation) were spared further harm.

Rather than pinning the blame for something on the control of some outside force, she's deflecting praise that she's receiving using the same tactic. It's a fine line, granted, but it's the difference between humility and justification.

I think the real test of her character would lay in how she'd react to a situation where something morally indefensible is done, or the potential for it, and whether or not she seeks the pass the buck then.

[Space Cadet B^3]

All she did was what she was paid to do, why bring divinity into it at all?

[Northcott]

All she did was what she was paid to do, why bring divinity into it at all?

Ever been in a fight where you brought serious harm to another person? Or been in a situation where you've been one step away from witnessing the willful maiming or murder of people you know and care about?

First thing a person reaches for is their coping mechanism of choice.


The other side of the coin is that if a person really and truly believes in a divine being that's (generally) beneficient and omnipresent, how could they not parse the experience in such a way? It's a logical and natural conclusion when taken from that viewpoint.

[Space Cadet B^3]

Ever been in a fight where you brought serious harm to another person? Or been in a situation where you've been one step away from witnessing the willful maiming or murder of people you know and care about?

First thing a person reaches for is their coping mechanism of choice.


The other side of the coin is that if a person really and truly believes in a divine being that's (generally) beneficient and omnipresent, how could they not parse the experience in such a way? It's a logical and natural conclusion when taken from that viewpoint.
17 years ago I beat the hell out of a guy who allegedly raped an ex of mine, later found out that was another of her lies. It's haunted me for years, that's why I try to be a man of peace now, because I don't trust myself.

I'm just wondering if she was working security for the mall if she'd have made the same statement, maybe I'm too cynical.

[Northcott]

17 years ago I beat the hell out of a guy who allegedly raped an ex of mine, later found out that was another of her lies. It's haunted me for years, that's why I try to be a man of peace now, because I don't trust myself.

Sorry to hear it, man. That's a shit turn. Did you reach straight for your coping mechanism of choice?

I'm just wondering if she was working security for the mall if she'd have made the same statement, maybe I'm too cynical.

If we presume that the only difference is that she was at a mall rather than at a religious gathering... very possibly. On the other hand, it could be that because she was at a religious gathering and surrounded by people who's faces she saw at least once a week (if not more) that it heightened the emotional tension for her and brought about an even stronger reaction.

I don't see how that invalidates the honesty of her response.

[Space Cadet B^3]

Sorry to hear it, man. That's a shit turn. Did you reach straight for your coping mechanism of choice?I went almost catatonic when I found out the lie, if it hadn't been for my mom and dad coming and picking me up, driving me home and enrolling me in college, I'm not sure how it would have all gone down. I do see what you're saying though, my initial post was probably an errant reaction.

If we presume that the only difference is that she was at a mall rather than at a religious gathering... very possibly. On the other hand, it could be that because she was at a religious gathering and surrounded by people who's faces she saw at least once a week (if not more) that it heightened the emotional tension for her and brought about an even stronger reaction.

I don't see how that invalidates the honesty of her response.You're probably right there. My bad

[Hastur T. Fannon]

All she did was what she was paid to do, why bring divinity into it at all?

As I understand it, she was a volunteer

[Hatter]

While I agree with all you've said above, Hatter, I think there's a line (though a fine one) between saying "God was with me and gave me the strength to persevere" rather than "God made me do it". I was left with the impression of a woman who euphoric at the notion not that she had killed, but that she had survived, and that the people whom she undoubtedly knew (as a regular in that congregation) were spared further harm.

Rather than pinning the blame for something on the control of some outside force, she's deflecting praise that she's receiving using the same tactic. It's a fine line, granted, but it's the difference between humility and justification.

I think the real test of her character would lay in how she'd react to a situation where something morally indefensible is done, or the potential for it, and whether or not she seeks the pass the buck then.
I had not considered the situation in this way, thank you. I should endeavor to be less cynical.

[Northcott]

I had not considered the situation in this way, thank you. I should endeavor to be less cynical.

You could be completely right with your initial appraisal. :o We're really too far removed from the situation to have any dependable grounds for examination. Truth be told, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that my initial vibe is the right one. People who probably don't deserve that kind of end were spared it by one person's actions -- it would be nice if she were the more grounded of the two options.