Does the statement "It happens for a reason" provide comfort? [Archive]

Limper

10-11-2007, 10:48 AM

to you when something bad happens?
Or any of the other variants such as "God has a plan"

They don't offend me but they certainly don't provide any comfort.

Not at all. I don't believe in a personal God and I don't believe he has a plan.

Nor would I want there to be a God who fucks with us to 'test' us all the time.

If there is such an entity he can fuck off and die for all I care.

FeatsofClay

10-11-2007, 11:00 AM

It makes me want to tear off someones arm and beat them to death with it.

Limper

10-11-2007, 11:15 AM

It makes me want to tear off someones arm and beat them to death with it.

So long as you say... "It happened for a reason" when you finish its comedy gold.

The Winslow

10-11-2007, 11:18 AM

No, 'cause I don't believe in a godly plan. If something bad happens to me and I'm told that it's part of God's plan, my emotional response would be something like "then God is a fucking jerk and I hate his fucking guts" rather than "oh, then I guess it's alright."

PWD

10-11-2007, 11:28 AM

Doesn't provide comfort because it's bullshit. If it provides comfort to others, more power to them, until they start shoving it in my face.

Limper

10-11-2007, 11:35 AM

Doesn't provide comfort because it's bullshit. If it provides comfort to others, more power to them, until they start shoving it in my face.

As a side... WHY would it provide comfort to anyone? I just can't get my head around why the idea that God has a reason to fuck up your life would make you feel any better.

TiQuinn

10-11-2007, 12:12 PM

Nope. I don't believe in a master plan, or God's Tapestry of which we only see a few threads. I don't believe that good or bad things happen because of God's will.

Janos

10-11-2007, 01:53 PM

As a side... WHY would it provide comfort to anyone? I just can't get my head around why the idea that God has a reason to fuck up your life would make you feel any better.

Usually because they rationalize that their suffering is justified and will be rewarded later. So they focus on the reward and forget about the suffering.

It doesn't do shit for me. And actively angers me if the person is preachy enough in delivering their message. I'm pretty stoic about things and generally understand that death and suffering are an accepted part of life, and it is something we have to come to terms with. Because of that, I really dislike justification like "there is a plan" that seems to acknowledge that suffering, death, and pain aren't natural functions of existence that we all have to deal with, and instead something unique to that individual person to let them feel like a special snowflake.

Snatch

10-11-2007, 02:04 PM

Not for me. Many things happen for a reason and many times the reason is anything but comforting!

PWD

10-11-2007, 04:40 PM

It doesn't do shit for me. And actively angers me if the person is preachy enough in delivering their message.

Similarly, I don't generally mind if the person is genuinely trying to be comforting and is just clumsy about it... but if they're preachy and pushy, I'll shove that shit back in their face faster than they can yammer out another empty platitude.

Ancalagon

10-11-2007, 07:07 PM

well

Sometimes I realize that there "is" a reason, but it's not obvious at the time. For example "why did this girl not want to go out with me?" This suck when it's the first time you fall in love with someone. Now looking back, I'm very glad she didn't because she totally wasn't the girl for me.

I guess I'm saying is that sometimes there is a big silver lining you haven't spotted yet.

Sobek

10-11-2007, 08:34 PM

Sometimes.

If taken/delivered wrong, it can ascribe undue importance to minor events.

On the other hand, there really can be a silver lining to some shitty events. The year I spent unemployed was actually a very character-building time and has had a lot of positive results, for example.

If someone had said "there's a purpose" during that time, though, I may have decked them.

Also, sometimes bad shit happens for no better reason than people are assholes.

Pigs in Space

10-11-2007, 08:43 PM

strawberry

10-11-2007, 09:17 PM

I'm with Anc. It's only meaningful when it's a self-realization. If someone else is telling me that shit, it's freaking irritating.

I agree. The statement doesn't bring me any comfort, but the thought that there may be an as-yet undiscovered positive to the situation can sometimes.

Atropine Mama

10-11-2007, 09:30 PM

"Oh, absolutely, everything happens for a reason. It's just that sometimes those reasons are the evil whims direct from the withering hearts of Satan's fire-cock gobbling whores."

I'm not bitter. :grey:

Ancalagon

10-11-2007, 09:39 PM

I agree. The statement doesn't bring me any comfort, but the thought that there may be an as-yet undiscovered positive to the situation can sometimes.

It's actually helping me get over another unrequited love.

... yeah I'm bad for that :grey:

Northcott

10-12-2007, 12:11 AM

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. "Everything happens for a reason" is a frequent refrain of mine. It does jack shit when things are really bad, but is a fine mantra for ploughing through the minor shitty things.

Though I'm kind of perplexed at how some folks have turned this into a God issue. That was just a varient given on the original question. It doesn't seem to require a divine figure at all.

The way I see it, things happen in a series of action and consequence, and roll forward into the future through that same mechanism. Everything really does happen for a reason, and there are often after-effects that are beyond our ability to see at a given time. All actions have ripples, and those sometimes bear unforseeable benefits if cynicism doesn't blind us to them.

Atticus_of_Amber

10-12-2007, 01:53 AM

If by "reason", you mean cause, then the statement is a truism: Daddy jumped from the World Trade Centre because bad men flew planes into it, the floor he was on was on fire, and he decided he'd rather die from the fall than be burnt to death.

If by "reason" you mean meaning, then that's up to you. The universe doesn't owe you any meaning and is incapable of giving you meaning even if it did owe it to you. The meaning is something that the universe demands from you (or, to be literal rather than metaphorical, that you owe yourself). Choose one from the many that are being offered pret-a-porter find one for yourself. Then make it real by living it. Or don't (but you'll usually be healthier if you do)

Morbidity

10-12-2007, 04:48 AM

I think it's right up there with "character building" as meaningless drivel of statements. When it's minor bad stuff, doesn't really bother me, but when people use it as some sort of platitude when truly horrible stuff is happening it makes me want to hit someone. As in so sorry that your teenage son died in a car accident, but remember that everything happens for a reason!

Atticus_of_Amber

10-12-2007, 05:21 AM

Hmm. I'm not so sure I think it's always a contemptible statement. There is a sense in which it can mean - "make this mean something". Which makes sense to me.

The Winslow

10-12-2007, 05:36 AM

To take two examples from that thread:
"Sorry that girl rejected you, but it happened for a reason: you fell in love with what you saw, not what she really is as you didn't really know her, and now you can see that it wouldn't have worked out." Okay.
"Sorry your son was killed in a car accident, but it happened for a reason: there were a bunch on potheads in a minivan who swerved out of their lane to collide with his car. The potheads were the instrument of God's will in killing your son because they survived. Praise the Lord!" Not okay.

Stratego

10-12-2007, 09:26 AM

Usually because they rationalize that their suffering is justified and will be rewarded later. So they focus on the reward and forget about the suffering.

I disagree. I don't think when someone's child dies they're thinking "at least I'll get into Heaven." I think it's a coping method, and most/some people find it easier to cope with the idea that God/fate/The Universe had a a set plan that required that death then that "it just happened for no reason at all.' I think this is true even if that person then has to rationalize a God/Fate/Universe that "plans" some cruel, horrible shit.

Northcott

10-12-2007, 10:50 AM

"Sorry your son was killed in a car accident, but it happened for a reason: there were a bunch on potheads in a minivan who swerved out of their lane to collide with his car. The potheads were the instrument of God's will in killing your son because they survived. Praise the Lord!" Not okay.

:what: Man, you could clip out reference to religious thought and it still wouldn't be okay. While people may slip with the best of intentions and try to temper the pain of grief by reminding people that there are reasons a loved one has passed, it's generally a shitty thing to do.

Atropine Mama

10-12-2007, 11:00 AM

Maybe I just hate empty platitudes. I'm trying to figure this one out. We're not grieving right now, per se, but people are handing out the sympathy left and right. What I really want is involvement, i.e. in our situation for my family to educate themselves and become our son's best source for support. So, when we hear the kind of hollow tripe that would be right at home in Oprah's mouth, I want to call up some motherfuckin' Cylons and do some goddamned damage. I'm a fucking atheist, and people who know this and yet say something involving their belief system in order to comfort me are really just comforting themselves. My smackin' hand starts to itch.

I know from personal life experience what kind of good can came from bad situations. I'm not immune to that realization, but maybe I'm wired differently. I just don't like sympathy. I want understanding, knowledge. Is that weird?

TiQuinn

10-12-2007, 11:06 AM

I think it's a coping method, and most/some people find it easier to cope with the idea that God/fate/The Universe had a a set plan that required that death then that "it just happened for no reason at all.' I think this is true even if that person then has to rationalize a God/Fate/Universe that "plans" some cruel, horrible shit.

I was the opposite of this. I know why my daughter died, and I knew it wasn't just random circumstance but gross negligence. But there were some people trying to tell me during my grief that this was all part of God's great tapestry and we can't see the entire vision or plan. That brought absolutely no comfort. I didn't want to hate God, but if I continued down that path, that's where I'd end up. This was all part of a support group eventually was taken over by a different grief counselor who decided that we needed a more spiritual explaination/help for our pain. I couldn't and can't comprehend a God that would feel that part of his great and wonderful plan involved the death of a 2 month old baby. There was a reason: Human stupidity. My wife and I left that support group after we countered the idea of "God's Plan" with the notion that maybe God doesn't have an involvement in these things. I guess the grief counselor didn't really want to hear that possibility.

Northcott

10-12-2007, 11:18 AM

I'm a fucking atheist, and people who know this and yet say something involving their belief system in order to comfort me are really just comforting themselves.

Or maybe they're attempting to comfort you in the only way they know how? If they're working with a limited palette, maybe they can't give you the full spectrum. Chances are it's a bit of both.

I know from personal life experience what kind of good can came from bad situations. I'm not immune to that realization, but maybe I'm wired differently. I just don't like sympathy. I want understanding, knowledge. Is that weird?

Nope. It's one of many possible reactions. Are the people angering you capable of giving that level of understanding and knowledge, and just withholding it? Or are they out of their depth and trying to offer what little they feel they can?

Edit: TiQuinn -- sorry to hear about your experience, man. I can't even wrap my head around how shitty that must have been.

Janos

10-12-2007, 11:32 AM

I disagree. I don't think when someone's child dies they're thinking "at least I'll get into Heaven." I think it's a coping method, and most/some people find it easier to cope with the idea that God/fate/The Universe had a a set plan that required that death then that "it just happened for no reason at all.' I think this is true even if that person then has to rationalize a God/Fate/Universe that "plans" some cruel, horrible shit.

I get that its a coping method, but I still think its bullshit. Instead of accepting death as a natural facet of life, they use justification in a higher power or plan to rationalize it. I think it is unhealth and self-deluding.

Whether or not a higher power has a plan, the simple fact is everyone will die. There is no avoiding it, and the sooner people come to terms with the fact that we all are mortal, the better off society on the whole will be.

To put it another way, I believe people are thinking "at least the kid went to heaven, its better there than here". As if death isn't a natural part of life that happens to all of us.

PWD

10-12-2007, 11:46 AM

Bad shit happens and something positive comes out of it != Bad shit happens for a reason.

Something happening for a reason implies intent or design where none exists.

Bad shit happens for cause - events led up to the bad shit, certainly, but bad shit did not occur so some future result could be produced.

Space Cadet B^3

10-12-2007, 03:45 PM

Tools don't know how to express their personal discomfort for a bad event, or life change, so rather than saying "Well it sucks to be you," they say "tempering makes the sword stronger..." or something like that.

(It sounded much more profound in my head.) ;)

Janos

10-12-2007, 05:18 PM

they say "tempering makes the sword stronger..." or something like that.

(It sounded much more profound in my head.) ;)

In a D&D campaign I was in, we had a fighter who would sneak off to the corner to masturbate. He used to claim he was tempering his sword to make it stronger.

;)

Badwednesday

10-12-2007, 08:47 PM

I suppose it would depend on what happened, and what said reason was....

Black Angel

10-13-2007, 12:02 AM

I can't really answer this question, because it depends on the situation and the intent of the person saying it. If they are trying to be genuinely comforting, even if it's not something I personally believe, I can appreciate the thought behind it. And I also can see how if it is a self-realisation that it definitely provides comfort.

Sobek

10-13-2007, 02:34 PM

The more I think about it, the more I wish I'd said "No" to the question. Sometimes, it can be a bit comforting, but it isn't inherent in the statement or my beliefs.

From a secular point of view, I believe you can find motivation (and, therefore, meaning of a sort) from almost any situation.

From a religious point of view, we live in a world touched by sin and have been removed from paradise. Bad shit happening is an inherent aspect of that existence. God isn't micromanaging the universe and not every belch has his hand directly in it.