Deplorable waste of taxpayers money

[Limper]

Senate approves funds for troops on the border

2 hours, 44 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Senate on Wednesday approved funding to keep up to 6,000 National Guard troops deployed along the U.S. border with Mexico.

The measure, approved on a voice vote, is an amendment to a nearly $460 billion defense appropriations bill for the fiscal year that began on Monday. The amendment added $794 million to fund the National Guard force at the border.

President George W. Bush ordered 6,000 National Guard troops to the border last May in a move to help the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency cut the flow of illegal immigrants crossing north.

About 3,000 National Guard troops are currently deployed in the border security program, which was slated to end on July 1, 2008. That figure is down from 6,000 in May.

Sen. Jeff Sessions, author of the amendment, said the additional funding would allow the National Guard mission to continue throughout next year.

"The number of illegal aliens attempting to cross the border has decreased by about 25 percent since National Guard troops were deployed. This program is a proven success and it would be unthinkable to back away so soon from this critical part of our border enforcement strategy," Sessions, an Alabama Republican, said in a statement.

The U.S. House of Representatives has passed its own version of the bill and the two chambers will have to resolve their differences before adopting a final version.

I'd like to pass a bill that forced the dumbasses who passed that bill to foot that bill.

Round up the immigrants press gang style and make them citizens, charge them taxes and be done with it... that is the issue isn't it? For some reason they get to use the system they aren't paying into, its an easy fix IMO.

Hell give them a bill for their unpaid taxes and if they settle down and work hard for 10 years we'll waive the back taxes charges.

I think this immigration issue has surpassed the abortion issues on my 'shit that is too fucking stupid to be an issue' list.

[Northcott]

I'd like to pass a bill that forced the dumbasses who passed that bill to foot that bill.

Round up the immigrants press gang style and make them citizens, charge them taxes and be done with it... that is the issue isn't it? For some reason they get to use the system they aren't paying into, its an easy fix IMO.

Hell give them a bill for their unpaid taxes and if they settle down and work hard for 10 years we'll waive the back taxes charges.

I think this immigration issue has surpassed the abortion issues on my 'shit that is too fucking stupid to be an issue' list.


This would, of course, be protested widely by people who claim you're oppressing said individuals. I wonder how many of those illegals would be grateful for the easy introduction to citizenship? I can't imagine that the stress of being an illegal is particularly endearing to the condition.

The raw amount of government bloat in legislation and spending is disturbing.

[Limper]

This would, of course, be protested widely by people who claim you're oppressing said individuals.

So long as they pay for the permits to publicly demonstrate I don't care.

I wonder how many of those illegals would be grateful for the easy introduction to citizenship?

No idea... and I don't care. If they are happy, great if not I don't care, they still need to pony up for their share.

Hell we get enough of them kicking in money then our crappy broken ass Social Security system will actual survive the boomers and can then go back to being its inefficient self. We don't need to change the laws we just need more taxxpayers.

I can't imagine that the stress of being an illegal is particularly endearing to the condition.

You would think so wouldn't you.

The raw amount of government bloat in legislation and spending is disturbing.

Its a self perpetuating monster.

[doc]

Been like this for the entire history of the US, goverment waste and bloat. I guess we could always round them up and depot them to Canada by mistake ??

[Limper]

Been like this for the entire history of the US, goverment waste and bloat. I guess we could always round them up and depot them to Canada by mistake ??

Rounding them up costs money and shipping them elsewhere costs money... why not keep them and make them work and pay taxes.

[doc]

Rounding them up costs money and shipping them elsewhere costs money... why not keep them and make them work and pay taxes.

Yeah, put the beaners in camps and have them clean up the haz mat sites !!

[TiQuinn]

Round up the immigrants press gang style and make them citizens, charge them taxes and be done with it... that is the issue isn't it? For some reason they get to use the system they aren't paying into, its an easy fix IMO.

No, it's not that easy because a lot of people don't agree with making them citizens. That's the whole cry about "You're giving them amnesty!" A sizable number of people want them rounded up press gang style and sent back to Mexico, period.

[Limper]

Yeah, put the beaners in camps and have them clean up the haz mat sites !!

Cleaning hazmat is a skilled profession so I wouldn't use them for that.

Cutting my grass, washing my car and picking my produce requires no skill and is just fine.

If they get the training to something more I have no problem with htem doing that... so long as they pay their share.

[Limper]

No, it's not that easy because a lot of people don't agree with making them citizens. That's the whole cry about "You're giving them amnesty!" A sizable number of people want them rounded up press gang style and sent back to Mexico, period.

Those people are idiots and don't understand the situation.

Its not criminal law in the first place its civil law and as such its not amnesty its just changing the ordinances.

You have of course reminded me of why I think democracy is a crap system.

[TiQuinn]

Those people are idiots and don't understand the situation.

I wish we could dismiss them that easily.

[Limper]

I wish we could dismiss them that easily.

The truth is not dismissal.

Democracy would be fine if we can exclude stupid people from having a say in things.

[Northcott]

I wish we could dismiss them that easily.

Why don't we round them up and... hold on a tick. Been down that road.

[Dr_Avalanche]

The irrational immigration rules are the problem, not the illegals themselves.
If you give illegal immigrants amnesty but keep it difficult to legally gain immigrant status you show that there are even bigger benefits associated with illegally getting into the country, increasing the future incentive for people to sneak into the country.

Make it (relatively) easy to gain legal immigrant status and the problem will go away. Why sneak into a country that welcomes you with open arms? It's not a problem in itself that Mexicans are moving to America - they're usually very productive members of society, so from an economic point of view, you should want pretty much as many of them as you can.

[Ancalagon]

The problem will not be fixed because the illegal immigrants are a source of very cheap labor. God forbid that we gave them right to a decent salary and developed world-rate working conditions!

[Northcott]

The problem will not be fixed because the illegal immigrants are a source of very cheap labor. God forbid that we gave them right to a decent salary and developed world-rate working conditions!

The truth is that, in the big picture, humanity still holds on to societal tropes that would be familiar to our medieval ancestors -- save that industrialization and globalization have allowed us to keep the 'serfs' safely in other nations or attempting to lurk beneath legal notice while providing us with the prosperous lifestyle that most North Americans lead.

[TiQuinn]

The truth is that, in the big picture, humanity still holds on to societal tropes that would be familiar to our medieval ancestors -- save that industrialization and globalization have allowed us to keep the 'serfs' safely in other nations or attempting to lurk beneath legal notice while providing us with the prosperous lifestyle that most North Americans lead.


Oh, we've moved a little bit farther along than that. Hell, we dont even have slaves anymore!

[Northcott]

Oh, we've moved a little bit farther along than that. Hell, we dont even have slaves anymore!

This thread is filled with bitter humour. I almost feel guilty for laughing. :grey:

[Freedom Canadian]

The truth is that, in the big picture, humanity still holds on to societal tropes that would be familiar to our medieval ancestors -- save that industrialization and globalization have allowed us to keep the 'serfs' safely in other nations or attempting to lurk beneath legal notice while providing us with the prosperous lifestyle that most North Americans lead.

Here's a quote I like on a similar subject.

"The fact is that civilization requires slaves. The Greeks were quite right there. Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure and demoralizing. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends." - Oscar Wilde

[Northcott]

Here's a quote I like on a similar subject.

"The fact is that civilization requires slaves. The Greeks were quite right there. Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure and demoralizing. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the future of the world depends." - Oscar Wilde

Brilliant quote. Depressing as Hell, but brilliant... but then, it's Wilde. That's to be expected.

I think our generation, and that which we're raising, are the ones that will have to deal with the collapse of the North American lifestyle. The Golden Age ends now, and we saw the last of it in the 70's. We now live in a culture of fear, clutching to dwindling resources, with the majority of sheep nodding in tacit agreement that our culture is too wasteful and too materialistic, even as they strive to make an extra buck, overextending their credit to buy a new doodad and keep up with the Jones.

This state of denial, where the end is acknowledged only in lipservice, can only be maintained for so long -- and that maintenance has now been stretched over a few decades. Energy concerns, transportation, manufacturing, and food production are all poised to be forced to change. Change is rarely a comfortable thing, swift change even less so, and forced change almost never. Our ability to choose is swiftly fading.

[Freedom Canadian]

Exactly, Northcott. And I hope it doesn't end in huge amounts of mass violence, but what are the odds of that ?

Now I'm depressed. :(

[TiQuinn]

I think our generation, and that which we're raising, are the ones that will have to deal with the collapse of the North American lifestyle. The Golden Age ends now, and we saw the last of it in the 70's. We now live in a culture of fear, clutching to dwindling resources, with the majority of sheep nodding in tacit agreement that our culture is too wasteful and too materialistic, even as they strive to make an extra buck, overextending their credit to buy a new doodad and keep up with the Jones.

This state of denial, where the end is acknowledged only in lipservice, can only be maintained for so long -- and that maintenance has now been stretched over a few decades. Energy concerns, transportation, manufacturing, and food production are all poised to be forced to change. Change is rarely a comfortable thing, swift change even less so, and forced change almost never. Our ability to choose is swiftly fading.

Couldn't say it better myself.

If people want to blame the current housing/subprime loan woes on something, they can blame it on their own greed and HGTV. Everyone needed to have the biggest house they could afford, with the huge cathedral ceilings, the most expensive countertops and cabinets, the high-end appliances, the big entertainment room, and it all had to look like an impeccable model as seen on TV. The way they paid for it was through equity and the rest of the economy was more than willing to oblige them and make it easy to access.

Keep the money flowing, keep the money flowing, keep the money flowing....no matter what.

And that's just one particular problem. This cycle is repeated over and over again.

[Northcott]

"Greed, for lack of a better word, works."

Bullshit. :)

[TiQuinn]

"Greed, for lack of a better word, works."

Bullshit. :)

Yeah, I remember everyone repeating that quote.

They forgot how the movie ended.

[Janos]

If people want to blame the current housing/subprime loan woes on something, they can blame it on their own greed and HGTV. The way they paid for it was through equity and the rest of the economy was more than willing to oblige them and make it easy to...

You're my personal jesus for the day. I've been saying this for months to a mostly deaf audience. And Orange County fits this mold to a T.

[Ancalagon]

we are more than one thinking along the same lines...

You know what the best way to "help" for global warming/environment? Is to consume less. Not just less energy, just less *stuff* in general - I'm sure it takes quite a lot of energy to make a new TV.

Yet some people call me a cheap bastard because I refuse to throw away stuff because it's old. If it's still working, why not keep using it? Sheesh...

Of course, if people grasp that, consumption would decrease sharply and the economy would grind to a halt - which means our economy is fundamentally flawed!

Ancalagon

[Pigs in Space]

/me blows everyone in the thread.

[TiQuinn]

You know what the best way to "help" for global warming/environment? Is to consume less. Not just less energy, just less *stuff* in general - I'm sure it takes quite a lot of energy to make a new TV.

Yet some people call me a cheap bastard because I refuse to throw away stuff because it's old. If it's still working, why not keep using it? Sheesh...

Speaking of which, my wife's got an old TV that she got for free along with a computer from Compaq. She's had it since about 1995, and it's still going strong. Sure, it's not a big TV, and it's not really fancy or anything, but for it's perfect for our bedroom. :)

[Schizm]

I didn't replace my old tv till it really no longer worked. Oh, it would show the picture... but there was so much static on a clear signal that it you couldn't really see much. Something in it was going so that it also produced an extremely high pitched whine that made listening to whatever you were watching difficult.

The TV was made in 1980. The new tv we bought? 2005.

I think that's a pretty good stretch.

[Snatch]

/me blows everyone in the thread.

Dammit I'm late to the thread!!

[PWD]

Dammit I'm late to the thread!!

You want to be even later until he gets that chipped tooth fixed. Ouch.

[Snatch]

You know what the best way to "help" for global warming/environment? Is to consume less. Not just less energy, just less *stuff* in general - I'm sure it takes quite a lot of energy to make a new TV.


Agreed! And I'll also tack on the requirement that manufacturers make stuff that has a longer usable lifespan.