D&D 4e Magic and spellcasting

[doc]

Thought a spin-off was needed, besides I've got a question or 3, which are.....

It's got 25 levels of magic, any idea how the current spells corrispond to thier new level ? ( ie Fireball is 3rd now what would it be in 4e )

Are 0 level (Cantrips) spells gone, merged into a level that fits it. (Read Magic is 1st in 4e, Mage Hand 2nd)

Just what would a 25th level spell be ? (wish, ??)

[obryn]

If I were to guess - and remember that this is huge speculation - I'd say that the spells' levels will change dependent on the caster level. So, a 5th-level Wizard could cast a 5th-level Fireball. A 10th, a 10th-level Fireball.

I really have no idea, though.

-O

[EhtoZed]

They might leave the spell levels as they are and add 10th, 11th 12th+ spells.

[Freedom Canadian]

If it were me, cantrips would be 1st level spells. Then you'd have normal 1st level spells as 2nd and 3rd level spells. Magic Missile and Ray of Enfeeblement would definitely be 3rd level. That would put Fireball in at around 6th level.

But that seems a bit off to me.

I dunno.

Obryn's theory sounds a bit like 3.5 psionics to me. I could see them doing something like that.

[Dacke]

Likeliest idea is that a spellcaster can cast spells up to his own level, as opposed to roughly half his level as in earlier editions.

[Sobek]

Likeliest idea is that a spellcaster can cast spells up to his own level, as opposed to roughly half his level as in earlier editions.

I believe this has been confirmed.

I believe fireball will now be a 5th level spell because a wizard gets it at 5th level. Of course, since fireball no longer does d6/level damage, it may be elsewhere on the power curve.

[doc]

I believe this has been confirmed.

I believe fireball will now be a 5th level spell because a wizard gets it at 5th level. Of course, since fireball no longer does d6/level damage, it may be elsewhere on the power curve.


What's the damage now ? Is all damage going to change ? What about the "Non Mage spell casters" (paladins, assassins and Rangers) when do they get spells and how far do the levels go ?

[Sobek]

I don't remember if they've confirmed the damage. I know 1d6+2/lvl was tossed out, but it may have been some random ENWorlder.

I believe the whole gammut of spells is being reviewed. It's been confirmed that the save-or-die effects will be greatly reduced or eliminated. There was a blog post today or yesterday about scoring a critical hit with a fireball, but not much detail.

AFAIK, there has been nothing about the semi-casters like paladin or ranger. Personally, I hope they lose their casting totally. Multiclassing, especially with regard to casters, is something that is supposed to be getting a deep evaluation, so it could work. I never really liked rangers as divine casters, anyway. The mage spells in 1E seemed a better fit, IMO.

Some of the changes I like, some I don't. May's a long ways off, though, and I think it's silly to get too excited either way at this point. Some of the changes, especially with casters, tend to make me view 4E as a new game with an old name. I'm getting tired of 3E, anyway, so I'm just planning on evaluating 4E by its merits as a game, rather than how "D&Dish" it is.

[Dacke]

What's the damage now ?
No idea, but several times they've mentioned things along the lines of "...and fireball doesn't do d6/level anymore."

What about the "Non Mage spell casters" (paladins, assassins and Rangers) when do they get spells and how far do the levels go ?
This is not something supported at all by WOTC statements, but they might be going the Rolemaster route. In RM, all casters (including "semi"-casters like paladins) can cast spells up to their own level without too much trouble (and somewhat above, but it's risky). The difference is mainly that the semi-casters' spells tend to be lower in power for the same level, and/or focused more on self-buffs. Also, semi-casters pay more skill points for their spells and power point skills, so they might not have access to all of them.

[doc]

If they went to d8 or even d10 per level it would be good, since monsters are tending to be buffed out a d6/ level is kinda light.

A 10th level mage's fireball does on avg 45 points now, uping it to d8 would bump it to 55 or so

[Freedom Canadian]

If they went to d8 or even d10 per level it would be good, since monsters are tending to be buffed out a d6/ level is kinda light.



I think they meant that rolling 10 dice every time you do anything took too long. So it's more likely that it'll do something like 3d6+25 or something like that.

[Dacke]

A 10th level mage's fireball does on avg 45 points now, uping it to d8 would bump it to 55 or so
35 now, actually. d8/level would be 45.

I think that, numerically, fireball works pretty well at d6/level (the "roll a ton of dice" thing is a different issue). It's enough to kill weaker mooks, and to seriously soften up more powerful things. My problem with 3e evocation spells is that at high levels, they still do fireball damage. I mean, shouldn't a 5th level spell like cone of cold do more damage than a 3rd level spell like fireball?

[Ancalagon]

if there are 25 spell levels, and 30 character level... something is a bit odd.

[Dacke]

I haven't heard anything about there being exactly 25 levels. A 1:1 correspondence between spell and class levels seems far more likely.

The whole thing came from Rodney Thompson's pseudoblog (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=906384): So, since the convention is over, I think it's safe to reveal my secret to the world now. When someone came up to me to talk about D&D 4th Edition, I was allowed to share this secret with them: Wizards will be able to cast 25th-level spells.

Doesn't say anything about exactly 25 levels.

[Ancalagon]

I haven't heard anything about there being exactly 25 levels. A 1:1 correspondence between spell and class levels seems far more likely.

The whole thing came from Rodney Thompson's pseudoblog (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=906384): So, since the convention is over, I think it's safe to reveal my secret to the world now. When someone came up to me to talk about D&D 4th Edition, I was allowed to share this secret with them: Wizards will be able to cast 25th-level spells.

Doesn't say anything about exactly 25 levels.

well spotted sir!