Student arrested and tasered for engaging in debate

[FeatsofClay]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Pretty scary. Makes me believe.

[PWD]

We can't see everything, but it sure comes across as though the officers/security staff overreacted.

Not much of a commentary on cnn either.

[doc]

So what question did he ask that pissed of whoever ordered his mike cut-off ? (my sound doesn't work)

[FeatsofClay]

So what question did he ask that pissed of whoever ordered his mike cut-off ? (my sound doesn't work)

He seemed to be asking about disenfranchisement of black voters in 2004.

[Varaj]

Kids an idiot. He certainly looks like he needed to be tased.

He probably shouldn't have been asked to leave at that point but once he was asked to leave his resistance seems to have been dealt with properly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheY0jYXJjY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NWukZhsiBw

[PWD]

Haven't got time to watch Varaj's links, I'll check 'em out later. It's obvious from the first video that it was highly edited, and possibly misleading.

So for once I'm exercising caution before I rant. :) It's not nearly as much fun, I'll tell you.

[doc]

Just show's that you don't piss off the Dems

[Varaj]

Just show's that you don't piss off the Dems

Kerry a couple of times tries to ask the police to stop. /shrug/

[Harry]

Oh yeah, that boy not only needed to be tased, he needed a couple of smacks upside his head. That's not what is meant by "freedom of speech". He was intentionally disrupting the forum, and came to use the microphone as his own bully pulpit, and had no intention of getting any answers to his questions.

He also fought the police, and was making his way to the stage before they forced him back.

The kids screaming about him being tased? Yep. Tase them too, the next time.

[Varaj]

Oh yeah, that boy not only needed to be tased, he needed a couple of smacks upside his head. That's not what is meant by "freedom of speech". He was intentionally disrupting the forum, and came to use the microphone as his own bully pulpit, and had no intention of getting any answers to his questions.

He also fought the police, and was making his way to the stage before they forced him back.

The kids screaming about him being tased? Yep. Tase them too, the next time.

I was amused when some chippy near the camera calls the kid an idiot for struggling because he has a taser on his chest. No shit he was.
Even if you don't think you should be arrested, resisting is a crime period. You may be found innocent of the original problem but you will still be guilty of resisting arrest.

[Scarbonac]

Kerry a couple of times tries to ask the police to stop. /shrug/


He should have tried harder; this can't be good for Kerry's already limp-dick public image.

[Harry]

Time yet again, for a Public Service Announcement from Chris Rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2wOxnAiIVs

[Varaj]

He should have tried harder; this can't be good for Kerry's already limp-dick public image.

It would have been amusing to see Kerry jump in and get tased himself. :)

[PWD]

It would have been amusing to see Kerry jump in and get tased himself. :)

He coulda got tazed in the ass and got another purple heart for the swiftboaters to challenge.

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

That kid should have watched Chris Rock. What an asshole, it's good that he got tased, he deserved it.

[doc]

It would have been amusing to see Kerry jump in and get tased himself. :)

Too much of a pussy

[Freedom Canadian]

I don't know, the tazing does not follow legal use of force rules as I understand them.

It still does not mean that this guy's freedom of expression was violated or that he was tazed for engaging in debate, though.

[Varaj]

I don't know, the tazing does not follow legal use of force rules as I understand them.

It still does not mean that this guy's freedom of expression was violated or that he was tazed for engaging in debate, though.


Not knowing the Canadian laws I can't say up there, but very clearly allowed under US law.

Hell one of the settings on a Taser is Drive Stun
Drive Stun

Some TASER devices, particularly those used by police departments, also have a "Drive Stun" capability, where the taser is held against the target without firing barbs and is intended to cause pain without incapacitating the target. TASER defines "Drive Stun" as "the process of using the EMD weapon as a pain compliance technique. This is done by activating the EMD and placing it against an individual’s body. This can be done without an air cartridge in place or after an air cartridge has been deployed.". [12]

A Las Vegas police document says "The Drive Stun causes significant localized pain in the area touched by the TASER but does not have a significant effect on the central nervous system. The Drive Stun does not incapacitate a subject but may assist in taking a subject into custody." [13]

It is also known as "Dry taseing" or "Drive taseing".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroshock_gun

[The Winslow]

Hell one of the settings on a Taser is Drive Stun

Cool. So it is possible to tell your underlings "set tasers to stun!" :p


Student should be happy. If it were a Bush forum rather than a Kerry forum, what would have happened instead is Cheney shooting him with a hunting rifle.

[Black Angel]

What I love is how this was reported over here on the net news (yes, it was a 'global incident')...under the title of 'Stunned in the land of the free'.

Made me laugh... :D

[Kwalish Kid]

Wasn't this kid known on campus for his pranks? And wasn't he continuing to try to talk out of turn?

A taser is perhaps too much, but it might have been time for the kid to go.

[Varaj]

Wasn't this kid known on campus for his pranks? And wasn't he continuing to try to talk out of turn?

A taser is perhaps too much, but it might have been time for the kid to go.

He wasn't tasered for the talking he was tasered because once the police tried to escort him out he resisted. At that point he was put under arrest and was tasered when he fought being handcuffed.

[Scarbonac]

He wasn't tasered for the talking he was tasered because once the police tried to escort him out he resisted. At that point he was put under arrest and was tasered when he fought being handcuffed.

I really think that asking politically-based questions, even odd or annoying ones, at a political gathering, should not be cause for being dragged off, arrested and tased.

Even if he went over some imaginary alloted timeframe.

There were more than enough cops there to hold his ass down and cuff him; tasing was unnecessary.

[FeatsofClay]

There were more than enough cops there to hold his ass down and cuff him; tasing was unnecessary.


Their decision to remove him was, in my opinion, bad. That being said...from experience I can tell you that no matter how overmanned and outnumbered you have a person you choose the quickest and safest way FOR THE SECURITY to detain and secure them.

I call dickhead for removing him. However, once a single officer lays a hand on you or gives an order it is go easy or go hard.

[Varaj]

I really think that asking politically-based questions, even odd or annoying ones, at a political gathering, should not be cause for being dragged off, arrested and tased.

Even if he went over some imaginary alloted timeframe.

I agree but that isn't what happened. As I said he probably shouldn't have been asked to leave when he was, but I don't know the kids history. He wasn't arrested or tased for the talking. Once you resist arrest you are guilty of that crime even if the original arrest was in the wrong.


There were more than enough cops there to hold his ass down and cuff him; tasing was unnecessary.

My understanding is that you are much more likely to do real damage (broken bones, torn muscles, etc.) by physically forcing somebody into handcuffs then by tasering them into submission. It is one of the primary reasons tasers are used. It reduces injuries for the person being arrested.

[Scarbonac]

I agree but that isn't what happened.

I dunno; I've seen several versions of the event by now, and to me he appears to ask several questions (after a rambling preface) that have a political but annoying bent (race-based voter fraud, whether Kerry and Shrub were in the same Sekrit Handshake club, shouldn't Bush be impeached), then his mike gets cut off and the smirking cops (were they even real cops?) grab onto him to drag him off.

He freaks somewhat, granted, but I'm lead to believe that he's a journalism student and reporter for the campus paper, so he might have had some "muzzling the press" issues going on.


As for tasers making it easier to restrain someone, I suppose, especially since something on the order to 200 people have died after being tased. I think a broken or sprained bone is preferable to that.

Plus the whole losing control of one's bowels and bladder thing...

[Kwalish Kid]

I just know that my sister in law couldn't wait to taser someone once she got her badge.

[Varaj]

I dunno; I've seen several versions of the event by now, and to me he appears to ask several questions (after a rambling preface) that have a political but annoying bent (race-based voter fraud, whether Kerry and Shrub were in the same Sekrit Handshake club, shouldn't Bush be impeached), then his mike gets cut off and the smirking cops (were they even real cops?) grab onto him to drag him off.

He freaks somewhat, granted, but I'm lead to believe that he's a journalism student and reporter for the campus paper, so he might have had some "muzzling the press" issues going on.


We are in agreement. He probably shouldn't have been asked to leave at that point. But he wasn't tasered for the question he was tasered for resisting arrest. He wouldn't have been arrested if he left when asked.


As for tasers making it easier to restrain someone, I suppose, especially since something on the order to 200 people have died after being tased. I think a broken or sprained bone is preferable to that.

Plus the whole losing control of one's bowels and bladder thing...

People die while being restrained with or without a taser. Right now the evidence suggests tasers reduce injury and death for the arrestee and the evidence is mountains high that it reduces it for the arrester.
Do they get over used? I'm sure they do, I'm not convinced this is a case of such an overuse. The guy was clearly fighting the police.

[The Winslow]

I just know that my sister in law couldn't wait to taser someone once she got her badge.

Does she live in Gainesville, Florida? Does she put her hair in a bun?

[Scarbonac]

Does she live in Gainesville, Florida? Does she put her hair in a bun?

W have a winner!

[Scarbonac]

But he wasn't tasered for the question he was tasered for resisting arrest. He wouldn't have been arrested if he left when asked.

OK, but if he shouldn't have been asked to leave, perhaps he shouldn't have been arrested (or at least not hauled off as if he were) when he refused to go.

[Varaj]

OK, but if he shouldn't have been asked to leave, perhaps he shouldn't have been arrested (or at least not hauled off as if he were) when he refused to go.

Once the police went to escort him out and he resisted he should have been arrested. Even if the school and the police made a mistake in escorting him out he broke the law by resisting. It is 100% illegal to resist the police. He was 100% in the wrong at that point.
Was the school in the wrong asking him to leave? Maybe to probably. That doesn't mitigate his very serious crime of resisting arrest. If you are wrongly arrested (or asked to leave) you don't fight the police you do as they ask and then deal with the wrongness of the police action properly. Fighting makes you a criminal.

[Scarbonac]

So, they can violate your rights, arrest you when you protest, then charge you with a crime and torture you (via electrocution) into complying to boot.

Kafka would have loved this.

[Varaj]

So, they can violate your rights, arrest you when you protest, then charge you with a crime and torture you (via electrocution) into complying to boot.

Kafka would have loved this.

:rolleyes:

They can violate your rights with a wrongful arrest and you can sue their asses for wrongful arrest. This isn't a police state and generally speaking, if the police made a mistake you will win in court. Checks and balances.

If you resist arrest they can rightfully subdue you or are you suggesting that people should be able to fight the police on a whim and the police should just let them go?

[Scarbonac]

:rolleyes:

They can violate your rights with a wrongful arrest and you can sue their asses for wrongful arrest. This isn't a police state and generally speaking, if the police made a mistake you will win in court. Checks and balances.

If you resist arrest they can rightfully subdue you or are you suggesting that people should be able to fight the police on a whim and the police should just let them go?

If the police had no business hauling him away in the first place, he was within his rights to say "No, I'm not going."

The police have no more right to lay hands on a citizen without cause than you or I do. As far as I've been able to find out, the police simply descended upon him while he was asking his questions, muckled onto him and started to unceremoniously haul him off.

This ain't the old Soviet Union; we aren't supposed to do shit like that here.

[Varaj]

If the police had no business hauling him away in the first place, he was within his rights to say "No, I'm not going."

Not it isn't.


The police have no more right to lay hands on a citizen without cause than you or I do.

Correct, but if they make a mistake and lay hands on you you have no right to resist at the time. What you do have is a right to a fair trial and the right to address the errors in court. The Constitution is pretty clear on what rights we have in regards to the police and resisting a wrongful arrest isn't one of the rights we have.
Resisting arrest is a crime even if the the arrest is wrongful. That is the law and it is supported by the Constitution.


This ain't the old Soviet Union; we aren't supposed to do shit like that here.

Wrongful arrests happen, that is why the Constitution provides us with rights like a Right to a fair Trial, habeas corpus, etc. Those are what separates us from the old Soviet Union, not the right to resist arrest.

It is unreasonable to assume that every person should be able to resist arrest and say "hey I thought it was a wrongful arrest" and they are in the clear.
That is why resisting arrest is a crime, period.
Let me say it again and bold it for you, Resisting arrest is a crime even if the the arrest is wrongful.

[Scarbonac]

WHEN ARE YOU UNDER ARREST?

You are arrested when law enforcement officers take you into custody or otherwise deprive you of your freedom of movement in any significant way, in order to hold you to answer for a criminal offense.

Police officers, under Florida law, are obligated to identify themselves and to advise you that you are under arrest and why, unless circumstances make it impossible for them to do so at that time.

...


CAN A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER DETAIN YOU WITHOUT ARRESTING YOU?

Based upon reasonable suspicion that you may be involved in criminal activity, a police officer may require you to identify yourself and explain your presence at a particular time, without arresting you. Under Florida law the officer may not remove you from the immediate vicinity without making an arrest, unless you voluntarily accompany the officer to some other location.

http://library.findlaw.com/1997/Sep/1/130723.html

[Varaj]

http://library.findlaw.com/1997/Sep/1/130723.html

What is your point? We agree he shouldn't have been removed, once he resisted it is game over.

I also suggest you read the Trespassing laws for Florida. If the people running the show asked him to leave the police can legally (by Florida law) remove him.

Let's see what the ACLU says, Wow they agree with me.
http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14527res20020304.html
http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/dwb%20bust%20card7_04.pdf

[Scarbonac]

You owe me a piece of paper.

[Varaj]

You owe me a piece of paper.

Acrobat can rotate in the viewer, right click rotate, repeat until it is readable. :D

[Scarbonac]

Dammit.

[Dark Jezter]

As for tasers making it easier to restrain someone, I suppose, especially since something on the order to 200 people have died after being tased. I think a broken or sprained bone is preferable to that.

Between 2001 and 2006, 245 people died after being tased. However, autopsies determined that there were only 7 cases where the taser itself was ruled as a cause or a contributing factor of the death. Other deaths were caused by injuries sustained in struggling with the police or excited delirium.

7 deaths out of literally tens of thousands of instances where police officers used tasers on suspects.

The percentage of people who die from being tased is so low that it's statistically insignificant. You're far more likely to die from being physically restrained by police than you are from being tased.

[Scarbonac]

Death by "excited delirium"?


You mean "mysterious death in police custody".

[PWD]

Death by "excited delirium"?


You mean "mysterious death in police custody".

No, he means Ancalagon and Glass on a saturday night filled with fun.

[Scarbonac]

Damn you. Now I have to clear coffee off my monitor.

[Glass]

No, he means Ancalagon and Glass on a saturday night filled with fun.
Hey now!

Get it right, it's myself, Ancalagon, and your Mom on a Saturday night filled with fun. :)

[doc]

Hey now!

Get it right, it's myself, Ancalagon, and your Mom on a Saturday night filled with fun. :)

Anyone and his Mom on payday.

[PWD]

You're right, my mom will taser any one of you for cash. So will I if she's not available.

[doc]

Just so I can understand, heckleling a Democrat speaker bad, Harrasing a Republication speaker good. Gotta love that free speech

[Scarbonac]

Just so I can understand, heckleling a Democrat speaker bad, Harrasing a Republication speaker good. Gotta love that free speech

Where did that come from?

[PWD]

Where did that come from?

His ass.

[doc]

Ok so this asshole was out of line, but you go to any university (Columbia is the worst) that a Conservative is trying to speak at and the far left wingers will heckle and fuck with him till he leaves the stage, with no comment from the media. If that was done to Kerry or any of his compadres the Media would go nuts over thier right to free speech being violated.

[PWD]

Ok so this asshole was out of line, but you go to any university (Columbia is the worst) that a Conservative is trying to speak at and the far left wingers will heckle and fuck with him till he leaves the stage, with no comment from the media. If that was done to Kerry or any of his compadres the Media would go nuts over thier right to free speech being violated.

Like I said, his ass.

[doc]

Like I said, his ass.

Fuck you very much

[Scarbonac]

C-c-cain't we a-all jist get a-along...?

[Limper]

C-c-cain't we a-all jist get a-along...?


Why couldn't they taser Chris? It would be a nice follow up to Seth Green making fun of him.

[PWD]

Fuck you very much

Nasty old northern liberals picking on you again? Damn, they're just mean.

[Harry]

As with every other case of this nature, I wonder how this scene would have played out if there had been no cameras present. The agitator was clearly expecting his protests to be recorded.

[doc]

Nasty old northern liberals picking on you again? Damn, they're just mean. No, it's just I'm tired of folks demanding thier FOS bu won't let someone else say thier piece.

C-c-cain't we a-all jist get a-along...? {{hug}} Me and PWD like each other we just disagree on some things lil fella, it'll be ok. See what you did PWD you made Scarbonac cry !!

[PWD]

No, it's just I'm tired of folks demanding thier FOS bu won't let someone else say thier piece.

You said your piece, you just said it out your ass. :D

[doc]

Wait till I eat some red beans and rice, pickled eggs and beer and I'll tell you again :):raspberry::rimshot:

[Dr. Cherry Gunn]

As with every other case of this nature, I wonder how this scene would have played out if there had been no cameras present. The agitator was clearly expecting his protests to be recorded.

Not only that, he specifically asked people to record what he was about to do.

[Freedom Canadian]

We are in agreement. He probably shouldn't have been asked to leave at that point.

I disagree. He was intentionally disrupting an event held on private property. They were fully within their rights to ask him to leave.

But he wasn't tasered for the question he was tasered for resisting arrest. He wouldn't have been arrested if he left when asked.

Word. And the event unfolded exactly as this guy wanted it to unfold, so boo-hoo-hoo.

And nice job on the legality research farther in the thread, btw.


The reason I was saying this might be improper use of force is that I was under the impression that the guy was cuffed before they tazed him. Someone at CM said that was not the case, so I'm not sure anymore.

[Varaj]

I disagree. He was intentionally disrupting an event held on private property. They were fully within their rights to ask him to leave.

Don't get me wrong I think the people throwing the event had every right to ask him to leave, I just think it was the probably the wrong time based off what the videos show. There may have been lots of other stuff going on such as the kid might have had a history of trouble causing. I certainly don't know all the facts.

As for the handcuffs it looked to me that he wasn't handcuffed when he was tased and the tasing was done to allow them to cuff him.

I admit I tend to default to siding with the police until strong evidence comes out otherwise, but damn that kid looked like he was begging for a beat down.

[Harry]

I read in the paper today that the asshat, Andrew Meyer, has long specialised in pranks and such, and films them. I've looked around for one that was specifically mentioned, a real thigh slapper where he held up spoiler signs at a Harry Potter midnight book sale, but I can't find it.

I did find this though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sh4mJFkcg0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etheandrewmeyer%2Ecom%2Fske tches%2Easp

[Harry]

There is also this, at what remains of his website:

http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/

It appears that he's deleted from Youtube and his website some of his less incendiary, supposedly comedic, bits.

We hear it on the news almost everyday.

"At least 18 people were killed when two car bombs exploded in a busy market…”

It happens so frequently at this point that we have become desensitized to the message.

“Eleven more died when a minibus blew up in the Karrada district, while a suicide attack…”

Iraq is thousands of miles away from the United States. When a suicide bomber strikes in the middle of a crowded Baghdad street, leaving mayhem and carnage in his wake, America is largely unaffected. The only thing we hear in the States is the same tired story. Yeah, yeah, suicide bomber, 20-something dead, we’ve heard this one before. But in Baghdad, no one is “over” these attacks. Every new bombing is a deadly and frightening jolt, a senseless thunderbolt of destruction bringing the city to its knees and death to its inhabitants. Yet we in America are so far removed from Iraq, so jaded to the tales of violence in its streets, perhaps the only time we truly feel the human cost of the War in Iraq is when it hits close to home.

Shannon Timmann is a friend of mine. On January 7, 2006, her father was killed outside of Mosul, the biggest city in northern Iraq. He was in one of two Black Hawk helicopters that lost contact with base. “Human error in a storm,” they called it. They don’t know what happened. The helicopters just went down. They just crashed.
In exchange for the life of her husband, Shannon’s mom received this letter from the government:


“Dear Mrs. Timmann:

I extend my heartfelt condolences on the death of your husband. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. I am grateful for Robert’s service to our nation and to the Department of State. His dedication and bravery should serve as an example to us all.

Sincerely,

Condoleeza Rice.”

Nice words from our Secretary of State. But that is all they are. Words. Nothing can bring back Shannon’s father, nor the 3,566 other Americans who have died in Iraq to date.

I asked Shannon what she thought of the letter sent from our government. She said it was nice, but, “I mean ….but how many of those do they send a week? It’s just copy.”

Shannon had another letter, sent to her from the Iraqi chief of police. It was heartfelt, and genuinely saddened for the loss that Shannon and the world would feel from Bob’s death.

I watched a video that Bob Timmann filmed in Iraq before he died. He was a good man, and he believed that America was doing good work in Iraq. But what exactly are we accomplishing over there? America invaded Iraq on false pretenses, bogus intelligence that Saddam had WMDs and links to al-Qaeda.

When Cho Seung-Hui killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, it was like a knee to the stomach of Americans across the country. It was the only story on the news for days, and everyone felt affected, whether they had family or friends at Virginia Tech or not.

If 32 Americans died in a bombing in Iraq today, would the media give the story the full-court press that Virginia Tech got? Would every kid on facebook change his or her picture to a ribbon with the message “We support our troops”?

The story would get lumped in with every other Iraq story, mentioned for a day, and then swept under the rug and forgotten.

Virginia Tech was a tragedy, but you can see that death toll almost everyday in Iraq. And for what? For democracy in Iraq? As if anyone in the U.S. government really cares about the Iraqi people? We are there to make money for Vice President Cheney’s corporation, Halliburton. We are there for oil. When insurgents or terrorists or whatever you want to call them blow something up in Iraq, and kill Americans, its not big news – for a reason. The powers that be do not want a true audit of the War in Iraq, and the cowed American media is more than happy to accommodate them. More than anything, the mainstream media is part of the problem. Now here’s a real tragedy - what it takes to get play in the mainstream media. Billions of dollars are missing from the department of defense, eight U.S. attorney generals were fired in an unprecedented political coup, and the biggest news stories of the year are Paris Hilton and Anna Nicole Smith.

It’s enough to make you think about what the real goal of the news is. Is it to keep the populace as educated and up-to-date on America and world affairs as possible, or is the news like any other business, with the chief goal to make money. The news is designed to keep viewers watching and sedated and not thinking bad thoughts about America, because that would be bad for the economy. Stories about a severely unbalanced budget are out, train wrecks like Paris and Anna are in. A train wreck may be senseless and pointless, but Americans sure do love to watch.

Is it “news” when a toddler accidentally drowns in Lake Michigan? It’s a tragedy, to be sure, but does it affect the world as much as, say, the decisions of the U.S. Federal Reserve, which drastically affects the value of money? The news is a crock of spit, mostly of the bull variety. People need to stop assaulting their brains with garbage, and start educating themselves with books.

If you truly want knowledge on the world around you, try picking up a book. The great thing about books? They have authors who have to do months of research, and actually know exactly what they are talking about. (Unless the author is Bill O’Reilly or Sean Hannity, in which case they can say whatever they want because their audience is a bunch of self-deluded ignoramuses who want to be told what they think they already know.)

Do you care about what’s going on in Iraq? Do you want to know the truth? Start reading. Just now, I typed “Iraq Book” into google and found this: Target Iraq: What the News Media Didn't Tell You. Without even reading this book, I can all but guarantee you that this book has more information than every news story NBC, ABC, and CBS did in 2003, when invading Iraq was still up for debate.

“Deftly separating truth from propaganda, Target Iraq is a hard-hitting expose of the harsh realities and consequences of the pending war and the media's failure to present the full spectrum of issues to the public.”

Why wasn’t this stuff on the news? It isn’t necessarily corporate malfeasance hiding facts. Maybe they just think critical reasoning and big words and knowledge will drive away viewers. Whatever the case, the war in Iraq is still going on, and most of America still doesn’t know why we went there in the first place, or what we’re doing now to get out.

Americans might not care, like when they hear about “just another bombing” in Baghdad, but I’ll bet you a Prius that if Iraq was negatively affecting the price of gas, people would start to give a damn. Maybe they’ll care next time around, when Bush starts talking about “consequences” for Iran. You know, one of two “Axis of Evil” countries that actually has nukes? The one that’s secretly funding the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip? Maybe Iran should start getting some attention. If only they were run by a millionaire debutante famous for nipple slips and a sex tape. Then they might even be news-worthy.

[Harry]

I read in the paper today that the asshat, Andrew Meyer, has long specialised in pranks and such, and films them. I've looked around for one that was specifically mentioned, a real thigh slapper where he held up spoiler signs at a Harry Potter midnight book sale, but I can't find it.

There is this forum, however, where he bragged about the Harry Potter stunt.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=334045


Oh yeah, and he uses a Mac.

[Freedom Canadian]

What a douche.

That tazing couldn't have happened to a nicer fella.

[Bagpuss]

I disagree. He was intentionally disrupting an event held on private property. They were fully within their rights to ask him to leave.

I agree here, and if he refuses he can then be arrested for trespass under Florida law. (Not that he was)

"He was charged with resisting an officer with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace by interfering with school administration functions, a misdemeanor." (last article I link)

But he wasn't tasered for the question he was tasered for resisting arrest. He wouldn't have been arrested if he left when asked.

The problem I see here is the student asks a number of times if he is being arrested and what for. At no time does any officer answer him. There are generally procedures that should be followed when arresting someone.

Still not sure what the powers and stuff of Campus Police are.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070918-2129-studenttasered.html

http://www.officer.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=38017

One of those articles mentions that the police report said once the cameras were off him he was more compliant and joking.

Serves him right if a prank got him tasered and made a felon.

[Varaj]

The problem I see here is the student asks a number of times if he is being arrested and what for. At no time does any officer answer him. There are generally procedures that should be followed when arresting someone.

They aren't going to answer those questions while you are resisting arrest. :D
They answered those questions once he was subdued. When they are fighting a person they are a bit busy to answer questions.

[Northcott]

Just so I can understand, heckleling a Democrat speaker bad, Harrasing a Republication speaker good. Gotta love that free speech

You know what's really funny about that? At the time he was asked to leave, he had just asked a question linking Bush and Kerry to each other via the Skull and Bones society, whose members are suspected of helping each other into positions of power throughout the USA. The question he asked right before that was; "If you really believed that the voting system was flawed or corrupted so badly, why didn't you challenge the results?" Then he asked about their connection via the secret society.

The implication seems obvious. And it's at that point that the cops started to drag him off. It was the Bush comment that got them to act. ;)

Fucking Republicans and their fascist conspiracy. Question them in public and they arrest you! :D

[Northcott]

They aren't going to answer those questions while you are resisting arrest. :D
They answered those questions once he was subdued. When they are fighting a person they are a bit busy to answer questions.

What got me was that at one point it looked like he was trying to break from them so he could rush back toward the stage -- which is when they pinned his ass to the ground and decided to remove him the hard way.

Sure, Kerry didn't win the big seat, but the fact is that you don't fucking rush the stage where a presidential candidate, past or present, is standing. There are some occassions where you just shouldn't make sudden moves. That's one of them.

[Harry]

I like this camera angle on the incident. It also reveals Meyer's complete time at the mic, although the cussing has been edited out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvwD4R47UE

[Bagpuss]

Looks to me that his mic was cut for saying "Cock", I find it hard to believe you can't say the word cock on a university campus, without being censored.

The fact Campus Police were already around him as soon as he was at the mic means they had been warned he was trouble most likely.

Also supposedly he refused to leave the mic after his time for questions was up, according to the campus officals and yet there doesn't seem to be much of a time keeper. The guy in the suit seems to have prompted that female cop to ask him to get to the point, but the ass doesn't allow Kerry to answer before putting more and more questions. Still he wasn't behaving violently, and doesn't seem to have been given a chance to leave the mic peacefully before they start man-handling him.

The start of the incident seems very badly handled by the organisers and campus cops by the looks of things. They basically provided him the opportunity to make it about censorship, and have a confrontation where none was needed.

[Varaj]

The start of the incident seems very badly handled by the organisers and campus cops by the looks of things. They basically provided him the opportunity to make it about censorship, and have a confrontation where none was needed.


Word

[Vermicious Knid]

I like this camera angle on the incident. It also reveals Meyer's complete time at the mic, although the cussing has been edited out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAvwD4R47UE


They were creeping up on him immediately. What the fuck?

He asked why they were arresting him...and they refused to answer. What the fuck?

He was under a pile of cops...and then they tased him? After he begged them not to? What the fuck?


I fucking hate cops sometimes. :what:

[Bagpuss]

They tasered him because he was struggling and none compliant when it came to putting his hand in the cuffs.

[Varaj]

He asked why they were arresting him...and they refused to answer. What the fuck?


They answered him when he stopped struggling and they weren't busy trying to subdue him.

[TiQuinn]

They were creeping up on him immediately. What the fuck?

He asked why they were arresting him...and they refused to answer. What the fuck?

He was under a pile of cops...and then they tased him? After he begged them not to? What the fuck?


I fucking hate cops sometimes. :what:

I saw the same video, and saw a smarmy little asshole resisting arrest. Don't beg....just do what they tell you to do. That's pretty simple.

[Harry]

I saw the same video, and saw a smarmy little asshole resisting arrest. Don't beg....just do what they tell you to do. That's pretty simple.

Ditto, and that's speaking as someone who has subdued and arrested dozens and dozens. It's all pretty familiar to me. What I love about the video, however, is the perfection of control the black cop who belatedly gets involves shows. It almost looks like he's got Meyer on roller skates when he finally takes charge and starts pressing him back.

[Vermicious Knid]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

[Varaj]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

I ain't old and I would have felt the same way when I was younger. :D

[Vermicious Knid]

Harumph! Get off my lawn, hippy!


:D

[TiQuinn]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

Whoever knew that VK was such a carebeard!

Poor wittle oppressed student! :lol:

:D

[Sobek]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

I'm torn. The kid was a dick who didn't actually seem to want Kerry to answer the questions so much as he wanted to rant. I get the impression that he was outside the bounds of time and was being a prick to the organizers of the event, which could be disruptive enough to warrant removal.

All the same, I didn't see any reading of rights, statement of reason, etc. I think those are pretty critical. One of the interviewees said that rights were read. If so, then I'm okay with how things went down.

The most galling thing is that I have to acknowledge that Kerry actually handled himself reasonably well.

[Harry]

When exactly do you expect the police to go about the reading of the rights? That's one of the very last things a cop does before he drives some joker downtown. Certainly not in the middle of an arrest. TV has lied to you.

[Sobek]

True. Yeah, fuck it. I think he deserved to be hauled outta there. I can't site a law or anything for it, but it does feel right to get the prick gone.

[Xavier Lang]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

What is your recommendation then? What do you think the police should do when they are going to arrest someone and the person isn't willing?

[PWD]

Cattleprod up his ass would straighten him out quick.

[Northcott]

I saw the same video, and saw a smarmy little asshole resisting arrest. Don't beg....just do what they tell you to do. That's pretty simple.


Quoted for truth. This little pissant's sitting back laughing his ass off over all the trouble he's caused: this is all over Youtube, the cops are being investigated for overusing force, fucking dirty hippies are screaming about fascism where it doesn't exist, etc.

Really, if they'd wanted to hurt him, pinning somebody down while they're fighting you over it is the perfect opportunity to "accidentally" fuck up their rotator cuff, pop their shoulder, "chicken-wing" their scapula, wrench their kneck, put a knee in their back, break a finger, wrist, elbow, etc. It's certainly easy enough to do by true accident, so it's not too hard for some brutal bastard to do so and claim it was an accident afterward. Even easier if it's just one person doing it.

Instead they mobbed him, pinned him, and tazed him when he wouldn't comply. It doesn't get more careful than that.

[cnath.rm]

and the Moron's fame continues... but perhaps not the way he wanted...

Thought I'd share for those of you not on the tshirthell mailing list. :D

[FeatsofClay]

http://www.maniacworld.com/dont-tase-me-bro-ms-hammer.html

Best yet!

[strawberry]

Damn, I think I'm the only one out there who thinks the tasing was uncalled for. I should start hanging out with a younger crowd...y'all are turning fascist in your old age. :tongue:

Well, I think they were pretty much damned if they did, damned if they didn't. If they hadn't tasered the kid and had injured him hauling him out of the auditorium while he was resisting, people would be criticizing them for THAT.

[Vermicious Knid]

Meh. I've come to terms with the fact that my deep suspicion of cops is not mainstream. I think my life experience might be coloring my opinion.

[Freedom Canadian]

I've come to terms with the fact that my deep suspicion of cops is not mainstream.

Of course it is. It's just not mainstream among discerning intellects like those at Kay's. ;)

[cnath.rm]

Of course it is. It's just not mainstream among discerning intellects like those at Kay's. ;)Who are normally paranoid/worried about much more esoteric things... :D

[cnath.rm]

Thought some of you might enjoy this version..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNLQY3bQyaM

[strawberry]

Meh. I've come to terms with the fact that my deep suspicion of cops is not mainstream. I think my life experience might be coloring my opinion.

Well, a healthy serving of suspicion is probably not a bad thing -- I don't think we should all be turning a blind eye to everything that cops do... But I also think being a cop is a hard, often thankless job where a lot of people immediately assume the worst about you and in some situations there isn't a golden, shining perfect way to handle the situation, either.

I think it's true of everyone's job that if you look back at the way you handled a specific incident, there might be ways that you wished you'd done it differently or could do it better next time. That doesn't mean you didn't make what you thought was the best decision at the time, though. :shrug:

[Sobek]

Meh. I've come to terms with the fact that my deep suspicion of cops is not mainstream. I think my life experience might be coloring my opinion.

Hey, I'm the guy who advocates the 2nd Amendment because a body might have to bust a cap in some government official someday. I'm all good with some distrust of authority.

[Ergeheilalt]

Edit: Arg! Damn you feats for beating me.

[Dark Jezter]

I don't think we should all be turning a blind eye to everything that cops do... But I also think being a cop is a hard, often thankless job where a lot of people immediately assume the worst about you and in some situations there isn't a golden, shining perfect way to handle the situation, either.

Word.

I feel kinda sorry for cops. They've got a job that's stressful, hard, and carries the possibility of being killed in the line of duty. They do not make a lot of money, and people expect them to be perfect and have flawless judgment in every situation. And then as soon as they're not around they call them things like "pig" or "fascist."

Of course, the job does have its perks. A cop I know once told me that he's met a lot of attractive women who can't resist a man in uniform. :)

[Northcott]

I used to know a guy on the force; young, remarkably athletic, good-looking -- the girls flocked to him. He also told us about one of his buddies on the force who used his badge to get away with speeding and driving like an asshole in his off-duty hours, pick up hookers, etc. I've known cops who were decent, upstanding guys who believed completely in the nobler aspects of the job. I've known some who were nothing but thugs with badges, getting off on the power and waiting for the chance to exercise it to its fullest extent.

People are people, no matter the job. Even the best screening process misses some bad apples -- and a bad apple in a position of authority is a scary fucking thing. Cops catch way too much shit for their jobs, and nonsensical hand-wringing over minor incidents, or incidents where they're doing what they're supposed to, only serves to create noise that helps obfuscate the genuine abuses of power that a small minority perpetrate.

[Freedom Canadian]

I feel kinda sorry for cops. They've got a job that's stressful, hard, and carries the possibility of being killed in the line of duty. They do not make a lot of money, and people expect them to be perfect and have flawless judgment in every situation. And then as soon as they're not around they call them things like "pig" or "fascist."

Plus it's a just where the slightest mistake can ruin your career forever. Hell, even doing things right can ruin your career forever if you land in a situation that's fucked up enough.

I used to know a guy on the force; young, remarkably athletic, good-looking -- the girls flocked to him. He also told us about one of his buddies on the force who used his badge to get away with speeding and driving like an asshole in his off-duty hours, pick up hookers, etc. I've known cops who were decent, upstanding guys who believed completely in the nobler aspects of the job. I've known some who were nothing but thugs with badges, getting off on the power and waiting for the chance to exercise it to its fullest extent.

People are people, no matter the job.

True. But at the same time, the selection process and the type of people drawn to the job make it so some qualities and faults are more common in cops than in the majority of the population.

For instance, young cops are often arrogant assholes who believe the rules don't apply to them. They are very good at working the system and feel no shame at manipulating it to their advantage. At the same time, they are usually courageous and willing to risk their lives for strangers in the right situation.

Cops also tend to be very loyal to their friends and colleagues, but after a long time dealing with the population, a lot of them become suspicious of civilians, developing an us-vs-them mentality.

Also, I've never known a cop who thought that using a badge to get out of a speeding ticket was shameful or in any way wrong. I know this guy who drives on average 160 kph on the highway. His wife is a friend of mine and it scares the fuck out of her, but it's not like he cares.

Oh, and the cheating thing. I don't know if it's just because of easier access to partners, but I've found that a lot of police officers cheat on their S.O. Not necessarily most of them, mind you, but still way more than in the population at large.

[Ancalagon]

Cops also tend to be very loyal to their friends and colleagues, but after a long time dealing with the population, a lot of them become suspicious of civilians, developing an us-vs-them mentality.

It's because all the people they deal with are criminals, or people in some kind of crississ (victims of crime, accident, mental break down etc). Unless they socialize a lot outside of work to remind themselves that most people are decent folks...

[Northcott]

It's because all the people they deal with are criminals, or people in some kind of crississ (victims of crime, accident, mental break down etc). Unless they socialize a lot outside of work to remind themselves that most people are decent folks...

And let's face it: a lot of people really are out to get them. Trip cops up, catch them at something, judging them, lying to them... the list goes on and on. I've noticed that teachers also become very "clannish" after just a few years in the profession.

[Freedom Canadian]

It's because all the people they deal with are criminals, or people in some kind of crississ (victims of crime, accident, mental break down etc). Unless they socialize a lot outside of work to remind themselves that most people are decent folks...

It's way more complicated than that. It also comes from being sucker punched out of the blue by a guy who's smiling at you but who had too much to drink and who hates pigs. Or getting cursed at by the law abiding citizen because you're giving him a speeding ticket and he'll have trouble feeding his kids this month. Or reading the paper to see that the reporter who interviewed you yesterday for a case edited the conversation to make you look like an ass. Or reading the papers and seeing that the average person hates your guts.

Plus cops do very long and irregular hours so in many cases they have no choice but to socialize among themselves.

[Brynja]

And let's face it: a lot of people really are out to get them. Trip cops up, catch them at something, judging them, lying to them... the list goes on and on. I've noticed that teachers also become very "clannish" after just a few years in the profession.


Often for similar - if far less dangerous reasons.

Parents are trying to claw for better grades, you have to cover your ass, and I have encounted 2 parents now in my time that really were malicious in how they dealt with me. It does change you a little.

The students can be scary too, a new teacher who lives in my building told a student to please put her cell phone away. Do you know what she said? "You know I cam make myself cry at the drop of a hat. I will tell them you hit me" WTF?

[Dark Jezter]

Oh, and the cheating thing. I don't know if it's just because of easier access to partners, but I've found that a lot of police officers cheat on their S.O. Not necessarily most of them, mind you, but still way more than in the population at large.

Hell, I've heard that having a mistress is practically a badge of honor among cops. I guess that the long hours, job stress, and sexual offers by women who think that police officers are sexy makes it difficult for a lot of cops to stay faithful to their SO.

[Northcott]

Often for similar - if far less dangerous reasons.

Parents are trying to claw for better grades, you have to cover your ass, and I have encounted 2 parents now in my time that really were malicious in how they dealt with me. It does change you a little.

The students can be scary too, a new teacher who lives in my building told a student to please put her cell phone away. Do you know what she said? "You know I cam make myself cry at the drop of a hat. I will tell them you hit me" WTF?


There was one girl at my wife's school who had filed abuse reports with almost every substitute teacher, and a couple of full-time teachers, who had dealt with her. Talk about crying wolf! The mother, of course, knew that her innocent little daughter was just a victim of the big, bad teachers.

Needless to say, the little shit made the teacher's lifes Hell while she was in their class.

It's all compounded around here by the way that the conservative government dealt with education matters back in the 90's. Under the Harris government the system was completely fucked over, trouble started up where there previously was none. It was so bad that a prior conservative leader, who ran our province for around a decade and a half and left office as one of the most respected politicians around, spoke up to criticize the government of the day for their destructive policies. The conservative party was, at the time, spending millions of dollars on advertising and PR to attack teachers and turn the general populace against them -- the old "create a common enemy" strategy, combined with the "think of the children" emotional appeal.

I'd call it Machiavellian, but Machiavelli advocated beneficient tyranny and manipulation. This was just disgusting. And, of course, the sheeple bought it hook, line, and sinker.

The lack of capacity for critical thought among the general populace frightens me.

[The Winslow]

The lack of capacity for critical thought among the general populace frightens me.

Just like the lack of capacity for kung-fu fighting among the general populace would frighten me if we were facing a ninja invasion. As we were saying in that other thread, if rational thoughts are not trained and developed purposefully, they just won't exist. It's unnatural.

[Northcott]

Just like the lack of capacity for kung-fu fighting among the general populace would frighten me if we were facing a ninja invasion. As we were saying in that other thread, if rational thoughts are not trained and developed purposefully, they just won't exist. It's unnatural.

1) I'm a devout advocate for building health, strength, and learning to fight. ;) Damned ninjas!

2) What frightens me about this trend is the complexity of issues facing us today. This is no longer the world where a random villager rarely travels more than a couple miles from his home, and where knowledge of how to thatch a roof and crop rotations is enough to get by with. If democracy has a flaw, it's that it depends upon the capacity for rational examination of issues by the people -- and the sad truth is that most end up cow-towing to whichever lie is presented enough to be believed as truth.

A recent example in Canadian politics: The conservatives, as soon as Stephane Dion was brought in as leader of the Liberal party, started a slander campaign marking him as a weak leader. There was no rational foundation for this, but the lie was repeated often and loudly, with millions spent on the ad campaign.

The truth is that Dion successfully lead a UN committee on environmental issues, actually managing to acheive concensus among that difficult group, while Stephen Harper (the conservative leader) was still denying that climate change even existed, never mind man-made contributions to global warming -- which he dismissed as outright fabrication. Dion was leading while Harper had his fingers in his ears, denying the facts. But Harper's the superior liar.

[cnath.rm]

Just like the lack of capacity for kung-fu fighting among the general populace would frighten me if we were facing a ninja invasion. As we were saying in that other thread, if rational thoughts are not trained and developed purposefully, they just won't exist. It's unnatural.however, due to the inverse power of ninjas, if the invasion consists of more then 1-2 of them, there should be time to call in the few really good kung-fu fighters while the general public mows the bulk of the ninja down with easy to hand out/use weapons like P90's. :D

[Freedom Canadian]

Hell, I've heard that having a mistress is practically a badge of honor among cops.

I wouldn't go quite that far. :)

I guess that the long hours, job stress, and sexual offers by women who think that police officers are sexy makes it difficult for a lot of cops to stay faithful to their SO.

Now that's very likely. :D